And there you go, a scumwing cannot use an astromech and vice versa. Different factions, different environment.

Let's not derail the thread with discussion on scum bots

Boy, didn't knew that my overexageration would be taken so seriously by the letter... I certainly hope so that nobody actually asked for the X-Wing to be as maneuvrable as a Tie Interceptor or hitting as hard as a Phantom or to be as resilient as a B-Wing, even less so all at the same time. It was only meant to say that some people (read: not everyone) want the X-Wing to be a ship that it is not and are asking for a fix that it doesn't really need. It would welcome a little boost, but it is not as unplayable as some people make it sound. The ship is being played and performing well in some regions. Does it means that they are gifted players? Does it means that everyone else in their region sucks? It's not because it is not performing to your (and here, I'm not talking to someone in particular) personal standards that the ship is ''bad''. It has weaknesses like every other ship in this game. What doesn't work for you might work for someone else, and vice versa. I read here that some of you doesn't like Hobbie, for me he's always been a blast and worth every points I spent on him.

Regarding the fragility of the X-Wing and the fact that it can go down in 1-2 turns of combat, if I decide that my opponent's B-Wing is my priority target, he will bite the dust just as fast. Every ship in the game is vulnerable to focused fire. You do need to take it into account when creating your team and preparing your approach. The X-Wing is not a tank. But, thanks to Tarn and Luke, it can actually be one.

The x wing can be 1-shotted and the b-wing can't

One shotting an X-Wing requires exceedingly good luck. It can technically happen, but let's not pretend that this is in anyway normative. The HLC can't do it, so it needs to be a Phantom or R1 attack with some really hot dice.

While we're discussing the X-Wing's relative vulnerability, I've always found the X-Wing's greatest defense to be its offense. They are one of the best ships in the game at shooting hard, shooting together, and shooting first. They have a lot of high skill pilots and their dial, while not super reactive, excels at formation flying. VI Wes + Opportunist Wedge & Luke is incredibly nasty, especially against the large ships that are so popular. Just fly them slowly and hang back against arc dodgers.

Now I grant that the generic Xs aren't in a great place, but it seems clear that the plethora of tremendous pilots is what the X offers over the B. They are powerful and their abilities shouldn't be discounted. This isn't to say that they are a perfectly balanced ship and don't need an upgrade, but they aren't fragile TIEs dying if you sneeze at them. They can still perform admirably, especially with the right support.

The x wing can be 1-shotted and the b-wing can't

Yes, and we know how often it happens... but if you're really worried about being 1-shotted with an X-Wing (maybe you actually are one of the unluckiest player and it does happen often) , take R4-D6. Problem solved.

the X-wing is missing 3 shields and has a green die

in my experience it is not uncommon for it to get two shot, amazing luck pending

a B-wing will rarely get two shot and will general weather at least three shots with a very low chance of getting 2 shot

8 total health is a very good guarantee. 5 health and 2 green dice are not.

B-wings die fast too. The fact is that Bwings are much more customizable. A recon spec type droid for the rebels would probably help alot. Either way, I had another 3-0 tournament showing this weekend with Luke. 9-0 now.

The x wing can be 1-shotted and the b-wing can't

Yes, and we know how often it happens... but if you're really worried about being 1-shotted with an X-Wing (maybe you actually are one of the unluckiest player and it does happen often) , take R4-D6. Problem solved.

Yeah you're right having an x wing with stress totally solves all my problems and completely doesn't make my next move predictable! The point is for 1 point more you get a ship that is just better plain and simple. Lasts longer, better action economy with fcs, can take cannons, 2 torpedoes (ha!), better jouster, can reposition, can have crew! The b-wing is an excellent investment because it has staying power! Yes we all know they can be totally focused down and killed on the first pass but the x wing is basically the same amount of points and dies way quicker.

the X-wing is missing 3 shields and has a green die

in my experience it is not uncommon for it to get two shot, amazing luck pending

a B-wing will rarely get two shot and will general weather at least three shots with a very low chance of getting 2 shot

8 total health is a very good guarantee. 5 health and 2 green dice are not.

I'm sorry for your bad luck.

A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 2 defense dice without any mod will average 1.5 damage. The X-Wing has 5 health, so even without taking his focus, it should on average take 3-4 shots to take down the X-Wing. A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 1 defense dice without any mod will average 1.9 damage, taking 4-5 shots to take it down. So, on average, it will take one more shot to gun down a B-Wing.

I don't deny that the B-wing is more resiliant, but the X-Wing is not the fragile craft some of you claim it is.

the X-wing is missing 3 shields and has a green die

in my experience it is not uncommon for it to get two shot, amazing luck pending

a B-wing will rarely get two shot and will general weather at least three shots with a very low chance of getting 2 shot

8 total health is a very good guarantee. 5 health and 2 green dice are not.

I'm sorry for your bad luck.

A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 2 defense dice without any mod will average 1.5 damage. The X-Wing has 5 health, so even without taking his focus, it should on average take 3-4 shots to take down the X-Wing. A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 1 defense dice without any mod will average 1.9 damage, taking 4-5 shots to take it down. So, on average, it will take one more shot to gun down a B-Wing.

I don't deny that the B-wing is more resiliant, but the X-Wing is not the fragile craft some of you claim it is.

In a world where crits are more common, 4+ dice attacks are common, and not being able to shoot back because they arc dodged you it is pretty darn fragile.

The x wing can be 1-shotted and the b-wing can't

Yes, and we know how often it happens... but if you're really worried about being 1-shotted with an X-Wing (maybe you actually are one of the unluckiest player and it does happen often) , take R4-D6. Problem solved.

Yeah you're right having an x wing with stress totally solves all my problems and completely doesn't make my next move predictable! The point is for 1 point more you get a ship that is just better plain and simple. Lasts longer, better action economy with fcs, can take cannons, 2 torpedoes (ha!), better jouster, can reposition, can have crew! The b-wing is an excellent investment because it has staying power! Yes we all know they can be totally focused down and killed on the first pass but the x wing is basically the same amount of points and dies way quicker.

Better be stressed than dead. At least it will continue to draw some fire for your allies.

And actually, if you read some of my earlier posts in different threads about the X-Wing (which I understand you didn't, I don,t expect everyone to read all my posts), you would find out that my opinion is not that the X-Wing is overcost but that the B-Wing is too good of a deal and steal the show. That's why I think the X-Wing do need a little boost, mainly to get a purpose, but nothing too strong, because I don't consider it overcost in the first place. So at least, we can agree on that point.

the X-wing is missing 3 shields and has a green die

in my experience it is not uncommon for it to get two shot, amazing luck pending

a B-wing will rarely get two shot and will general weather at least three shots with a very low chance of getting 2 shot

8 total health is a very good guarantee. 5 health and 2 green dice are not.

I'm sorry for your bad luck.

A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 2 defense dice without any mod will average 1.5 damage. The X-Wing has 5 health, so even without taking his focus, it should on average take 3-4 shots to take down the X-Wing. A 3 attack dice with focus vs a 1 defense dice without any mod will average 1.9 damage, taking 4-5 shots to take it down. So, on average, it will take one more shot to gun down a B-Wing.

I don't deny that the B-wing is more resiliant, but the X-Wing is not the fragile craft some of you claim it is.

In a world where crits are more common, 4+ dice attacks are common, and not being able to shoot back because they arc dodged you it is pretty darn fragile.

4 attack dice with focus versus 2 defense dice without any mod average 2.25 damage, so 2-3 hits; 4 attack dice with focus versus 1 defense dice without any mod average 2.6 damage, so 3-4 hits.

Again, a difference of only one hit makes the difference between a resiliant and a ''fragile'' ship.

Other than a TIE Phantom at range one all geared up, how are we one-shoting X-Wings all day, easy like?

Think about this, the tie advanced points wise is basically the x wing of the Empire. Trading an attack for a green. Now with the new title that 21 point ship will be able to take a discounted system slot (x wings should get a discounted mod slot) and accuracy corrector. This means now at 21 points (remember everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are over costed except vader) this ship will ALWAYS do 2 damage (there damage out put is 100% at range 2-3) and take an evade action every turn. Now that's a good value and gives the ship more teeth and staying power!

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms. Everyone cried when they saw falcons ignoring 3 damage a turn, or when phantoms get a million green dice, how some ships you could never pin down, or how auto thrusters rewards bad dice. The x wing, at its point value has no durability that makes it worth it's current point value.

Think about this, the tie advanced points wise is basically the x wing of the Empire. Trading an attack for a green. Now with the new title that 21 point ship will be able to take a discounted system slot (x wings should get a discounted mod slot) and accuracy corrector. This means now at 21 points (remember everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are over costed except vader) this ship will ALWAYS do 2 damage (there damage out put is 100% at range 2-3) and take an evade action every turn. Now that's a good value and gives the ship more teeth and staying power!

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms. Everyone cried when they saw falcons ignoring 3 damage a turn, or when phantoms get a million green dice, how some ships you could never pin down, or how auto thrusters rewards bad dice. The x wing, at its point value has no durability that makes it worth it's current point value.

If you actually think that the Advanced (before the title) and X-Wing really are the same value then I can understand why you believe the X-Wing is overcost.

Attack have more value than agility, they just didn't realise it when they designed the game. Now, I certainly hope so that when they will give the X-Wing his little candy, it won't be something as drastic and worthy as what they did with the Advanced, because the X-Wing is clearly not in the same situation the Advanced is.

Think about this, the tie advanced points wise is basically the x wing of the Empire. Trading an attack for a green. Now with the new title that 21 point ship will be able to take a discounted system slot (x wings should get a discounted mod slot) and accuracy corrector. This means now at 21 points (remember everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are over costed except vader) this ship will ALWAYS do 2 damage (there damage out put is 100% at range 2-3) and take an evade action every turn. Now that's a good value and gives the ship more teeth and staying power!

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms. Everyone cried when they saw falcons ignoring 3 damage a turn, or when phantoms get a million green dice, how some ships you could never pin down, or how auto thrusters rewards bad dice. The x wing, at its point value has no durability that makes it worth it's current point value.

Do people just not like Marksmanship now a days?

I mean that seems great on X-Wings.

Dunnit?

Other than a TIE Phantom at range one all geared up and with hor red dice... how in the heck are we killing X-Wings, easy like?

4 dice (x,b or e wing, firespray, interceptor, defender, lambda, falcon, decimator, starviper, aggressor, at range 1, any 2 dice ship with expose at range 1, any 2 dice ship with oppurtunist at range 1 and youre token less, proton torps, advanced proton torps, ion torpedoes, concussion missile, assault missle, proton rocket, cluster missile, homing missile, any 3 dice rebel ship at range 2-3 with expose, opportunist, or Jan boost, any 2 dice ship at range 1 with a Jan boost, and oh yeah a phantom)

If they roll 3 hits and a crit and it's a direct hit and you blank out or don't have your focus then your x wing dies... is it super common? No but b wings really don't have to worry about it. Again Durability.

Think about this, the tie advanced points wise is basically the x wing of the Empire. Trading an attack for a green. Now with the new title that 21 point ship will be able to take a discounted system slot (x wings should get a discounted mod slot) and accuracy corrector. This means now at 21 points (remember everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are over costed except vader) this ship will ALWAYS do 2 damage (there damage out put is 100% at range 2-3) and take an evade action every turn. Now that's a good value and gives the ship more teeth and staying power!

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms. Everyone cried when they saw falcons ignoring 3 damage a turn, or when phantoms get a million green dice, how some ships you could never pin down, or how auto thrusters rewards bad dice. The x wing, at its point value has no durability that makes it worth it's current point value.

Do people just not like Marksmanship now a days?

I mean that seems great on X-Wings.

Dunnit?

Marksman isn't that great, it's a focus that you can't use on defense. It's use able on Luke because of his ability but there's better choices for 3 points.

Think about this, the tie advanced points wise is basically the x wing of the Empire. Trading an attack for a green. Now with the new title that 21 point ship will be able to take a discounted system slot (x wings should get a discounted mod slot) and accuracy corrector. This means now at 21 points (remember everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are over costed except vader) this ship will ALWAYS do 2 damage (there damage out put is 100% at range 2-3) and take an evade action every turn. Now that's a good value and gives the ship more teeth and staying power!

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms. Everyone cried when they saw falcons ignoring 3 damage a turn, or when phantoms get a million green dice, how some ships you could never pin down, or how auto thrusters rewards bad dice. The x wing, at its point value has no durability that makes it worth it's current point value.

Do people just not like Marksmanship now a days?

I mean that seems great on X-Wings.

Dunnit?

Marksman isn't that great, it's a focus that you can't use on defense. It's use able on Luke because of his ability but there's better choices for 3 points.

So just Focus or maybe take the Predator EPT...

apart from Luke and R7 astro assisted tarn, of course, X-wings are less reslient and far less flexible than the b-wings

B-wings aren't invincible (far from it, they're very well balanced) but they are in my experience more durable and they're also stuffed to the brim with a variety of viable builds and are made far more flexible by having the barrel-roll action

there's really nothing justifying the base capabilities of the X-wing apart from the act that it ha to be balanced that way from the core set.

To offset its base inefficiency it boasts:

torpedo slot (lul, also B-wing has 2 and a named pilot that might actually use them)

astromech slot (great upgrades, but shared between the Y and E wings and hampered by the X's lack of durability outside of certain characters)

more named pilots than you could shake a tie fighter at (many of them too fragile to bring into the current scene of the game which is running rampant with highly modified 3-4 dice attacks)

Now, let me be clear

The X-wing is not the ship in the worst position nor will it remain so after the Advance is fixed. At the same time, I cannot bring myself to believe it is in a good spot given its myriad inadequacies relative to the other rebel offerings. Somewhere down the line, it will need to be addressed to bring it up to the likes of the Phantom, Tie Interceptor, Tie Fighter, B-wing, Y-wing, A-wing, Z-95, etc. to name a few

It does, fortunately, boast a few imo highly competitive options that at least lead me to include one in several lists (thank you based R3-A2!) but I am personally not satisfied with that and would like to see more in my games and more reason to take them

Guess ya didn't see all the things I posted that can kill an x wing in 1 shot...

Other than a TIE Phantom at range one all geared up and with hor red dice... how in the heck are we killing X-Wings, easy like?

4 dice (x,b or e wing, firespray, interceptor, defender, lambda, falcon, decimator, starviper, aggressor, at range 1, any 2 dice ship with expose at range 1, any 2 dice ship with oppurtunist at range 1 and youre token less, proton torps, advanced proton torps, ion torpedoes, concussion missile, assault missle, proton rocket, cluster missile, homing missile, any 3 dice rebel ship at range 2-3 with expose, opportunist, or Jan boost, any 2 dice ship at range 1 with a Jan boost, and oh yeah a phantom)

If they roll 3 hits and a crit and it's a direct hit and you blank out or don't have your focus then your x wing dies... is it super common? No but b wings really don't have to worry about it. Again Durability.

Dammit I'm buy'n a shield for everybody... now!

I'm pretty sure the only way to 1 shot a b-wing with imperials is with relax brath, proton rockets, opportunist, b wing is tokenless, and brath focused and has am extra focus from fleet officer.

You roll 6 dice, 5 hits and a crit, the crit is minor explosion, b wing rolls and take another damage and flips card down, brath spends focus flipping both cards up, b wing player triggers minor explosion again or the other card was a direct hit.

Rebels can use opportunist and Jan with prockets or pat's to throw 7 dice and hope for a direct hit or minor explosion that triggers.

If they roll 3 hits and a crit and it's a direct hit and you blank out or don't have your focus then your x wing dies

I'm willing to take those odds. B-Wings are tougher, absolutely. But don't pretend they are tanks and X's die if you sneeze.

Durability is the name of the game, it comes in so many different forms.

No, it's really not. You don't win by being durable, you win by doing more damage than the opponent. Durability only has value in so far as it allows you to maximize your own offensive firepower. The named X-Wing pilots can still do this. They don't need to live to the end of the match, they just need to earn their points back. They can't always do this, I agree. But we need to be clear about how we value ships. It is not for longevity, but for efficiency.