I guess im one of the few people who dont think the X-wing needs help. It is my favorite ship, and the one I play most often. I ran X-wings at a recent store championship (my first tournament) and got a top 8 finish out of a field of 32.

When people say that the b-wing is better for the points, they are correct. Also 2 z95s are more efficient use of points. So if those 2 statements are true, why use X-wings?

To make your X-wings worth using you have to look at what they can do that those other ships cannot, namely Astromechs. Droids give the X-wing much greater tactical flexability than the other ships. Its what I refer to as Shinanigans. If you arent using your X-wings for some form of game altering rulebreaking then you are not using X-wings right.

Think of it this way. Adding astromechs is essentialy giving you an additional Pilot Ability that you can choose. Pair that with each pilots actual ability and you can create some nasty combos, especially when working in conjunction with other pilots abilities.

Most people will underestimate your X-wings because they believe what people are saying on these forums When I made the top 8 at the Store Championship more than one person expressed suprise that I made it running X-wings.

There's a big difference between top 8 and winning store championships. Not trying to downplay your accomplishment x wings are definitely over costed for what they bring to the table and if you're trying to win it's hard to commit that many points to a ship that is far too easily killed.

X-wings are far from unplayable, and some X-wing pilots are still really deadly opponents. And yes, there are astromech upgrades (notably R3-A2) that work best on X-wings and make running one X-wing a much better prospect than it would be if you were limited to naked Rookie Pilots.

The problem with X-wings is, basically, that if you're running 100 points' worth of X-wings then your list is the equivalent of someone running 94-96 points' worth of B-wings. That's not an insuperable difference, since you're probably not running a naked Rookie and because X-wing is a very noisy game from a statistical standpoint, but averaged over a thousand matches X-wings will consistently look like a bit of an underdog.

I guess im one of the few people who dont think the X-wing needs help. It is my favorite ship, and the one I play most often. I ran X-wings at a recent store championship (my first tournament) and got a top 8 finish out of a field of 32.

When people say that the b-wing is better for the points, they are correct. Also 2 z95s are more efficient use of points. So if those 2 statements are true, why use X-wings?

To make your X-wings worth using you have to look at what they can do that those other ships cannot, namely Astromechs. Droids give the X-wing much greater tactical flexability than the other ships. Its what I refer to as Shinanigans. If you arent using your X-wings for some form of game altering rulebreaking then you are not using X-wings right.

Think of it this way. Adding astromechs is essentialy giving you an additional Pilot Ability that you can choose. Pair that with each pilots actual ability and you can create some nasty combos, especially when working in conjunction with other pilots abilities.

Most people will underestimate your X-wings because they believe what people are saying on these forums When I made the top 8 at the Store Championship more than one person expressed suprise that I made it running X-wings.

The B wings can get crew instead of Astromechs. I get your point about the Z-95s but I don't think it's valid for the B wings because of the crew options.

To be clear I didn't run all X-wings. I ha 2 X-wings and 3 Z95s. The X-wings were the heavy hitters in the list.

Without using the X-wings abilities then I would have been better off with B-wings.

X wings have been hugely represented in the Atlanta are store championships, but it's also been decided that our meta is a one-off "against the grain" way of playing.

Of the three store championships we've had, 5 x wings (three named, 2 rookies) have both made top 4.

The B wings can get crew instead of Astromechs. I get your point about the Z-95s but I don't think it's valid for the B wings because of the crew options.

I agree that the generic Bs are far superior to the generic X's. However I feel the exact opposite is true for the named versions.

The B wings can get crew instead of Astromechs. I get your point about the Z-95s but I don't think it's valid for the B wings because of the crew options.

I agree that the generic Bs are far superior to the generic X's. However I feel the exact opposite is true for the named versions.

There are a lot more named X wing pilots than B wing pilots.

I guess im one of the few people who dont think the X-wing needs help. It is my favorite ship, and the one I play most often. I ran X-wings at a recent store championship (my first tournament) and got a top 8 finish out of a field of 32.

When people say that the b-wing is better for the points, they are correct. Also 2 z95s are more efficient use of points. So if those 2 statements are true, why use X-wings?

To make your X-wings worth using you have to look at what they can do that those other ships cannot, namely Astromechs. Droids give the X-wing much greater tactical flexability than the other ships. Its what I refer to as Shinanigans. If you arent using your X-wings for some form of game altering rulebreaking then you are not using X-wings right.

Think of it this way. Adding astromechs is essentialy giving you an additional Pilot Ability that you can choose. Pair that with each pilots actual ability and you can create some nasty combos, especially when working in conjunction with other pilots abilities.

Most people will underestimate your X-wings because they believe what people are saying on these forums When I made the top 8 at the Store Championship more than one person expressed suprise that I made it running X-wings.

The B wings can get crew instead of Astromechs. I get your point about the Z-95s but I don't think it's valid for the B wings because of the crew options.

A B-Wing pays a 1-point tax for that crew slot, and there aren't too many that are really worth the extra point. It also loses its Modification slot, which the X-Wing retains.

The only problem with the X-Wing is that it's just gotten weaker as the game has evolved. The increase in 4+ dice attacks from HLCs and Phantoms means that its lowly two evade dice are too easily overwhelmed. With dice that are easy to overwhelm, its 5HPs disappear in a hurry. It's become a bit of a glass cannon, without the arc-dodging ability seen on the other glass cannons.

X wings have been hugely represented in the Atlanta are store championships, but it's also been decided that our meta is a one-off "against the grain" way of playing.

Of the three store championships we've had, 5 x wings (three named, 2 rookies) have both made top 4.

Are you folks playing 150 point lists, or am I missing something?

Another problem is the lack of decent astromechs. There is about 4-5 useable Astromechs. The other half are just bad or not worth the point investment.

X-wings just haven't kept up with the arms race. As, Bs, and Ys have all gotten better the last 3 waves. X-wings haven't gotten much love besides the new pilots from the Transport.

I guess im one of the few people who dont think the X-wing needs help. It is my favorite ship, and the one I play most often. I ran X-wings at a recent store championship (my first tournament) and got a top 8 finish out of a field of 32.

When people say that the b-wing is better for the points, they are correct. Also 2 z95s are more efficient use of points. So if those 2 statements are true, why use X-wings?

To make your X-wings worth using you have to look at what they can do that those other ships cannot, namely Astromechs. Droids give the X-wing much greater tactical flexability than the other ships. Its what I refer to as Shinanigans. If you arent using your X-wings for some form of game altering rulebreaking then you are not using X-wings right.

Think of it this way. Adding astromechs is essentialy giving you an additional Pilot Ability that you can choose. Pair that with each pilots actual ability and you can create some nasty combos, especially when working in conjunction with other pilots abilities.

Most people will underestimate your X-wings because they believe what people are saying on these forums When I made the top 8 at the Store Championship more than one person expressed suprise that I made it running X-wings.

The B wings can get crew instead of Astromechs. I get your point about the Z-95s but I don't think it's valid for the B wings because of the crew options.

A B-Wing pays a 1-point tax for that crew slot, and there aren't too many that are really worth the extra point. It also loses its Modification slot, which the X-Wing retains.

The only problem with the X-Wing is that it's just gotten weaker as the game has evolved. The increase in 4+ dice attacks from HLCs and Phantoms means that its lowly two evade dice are too easily overwhelmed. With dice that are easy to overwhelm, its 5HPs disappear in a hurry. It's become a bit of a glass cannon, without the arc-dodging ability seen on the other glass cannons.

I agree that the extra point might make the b wing crew less efficient and it loses it's upgrade slot but it still has the systems and cannon upgrade slots that the x wing doesn't have.

The only problem with the X-Wing is that it's just gotten weaker as the game has evolved. The increase in 4+ dice attacks from HLCs and Phantoms means that its lowly two evade dice are too easily overwhelmed. With dice that are easy to overwhelm, its 5HPs disappear in a hurry. It's become a bit of a glass cannon, without the arc-dodging ability seen on the other glass cannons.

No, that's not really it. The X-wing has always lagged other ships (namely the TIE fighter) in its fundamental cost-to-value proposition, which is why taking 8 Academy Pilots against 4 Rookie Pilots is tilted about 3:2 in favor of the TIEs.

But for Waves 1 and 2, it was the only Small ship the Rebels had with 3 Attack, so if you wanted to hit hard you built around that little bit of a gap between its cost and its value (usually with Biggs or R2-D2 to offset that unpleasant hint of squishiness). Late in Wave 3, and definitely by Wave 4, the metagame shifted in favor of the B-wing as people realized that it does everything the X-wing does, with a bit more backbone.

So we're left with the fact that the X-wing doesn't do "filler" as well as the Z-95 and it doesn't do "workhorse" as well as the B-wing. Its Agility isn't the problem, any more than 2 Agility is a problem for the Headhunter; it's that the B-wing gets a noticeable step up in durability for just 1 point. It's not exactly incidental that the X-wing can't boost or barrel roll, but just adding barrel roll via errata wouldn't suddenly make it much more popular.

The X-wing is a fine ship. Adding a shield/hull, or dropping it's cost by 2 to 3 points is the only love it really needs. It's just a little too expensive for where it sits between the Z-95 and B-Wing.

The Tie Advanced had a problem because it really didn't have a good role along with being overcosted. The X-Wing has a nice niche, fits great with the Rebel fleet, it just needs to be priced appropriately.

/crossing fingers hoping FFG will keep it simple.

X wings have been hugely represented in the Atlanta are store championships, but it's also been decided that our meta is a one-off "against the grain" way of playing.

Of the three store championships we've had, 5 x wings (three named, 2 rookies) have both made top 4.

Are you folks playing 150 point lists, or am I missing something?

No, he just totaled the amount of X-wings from the two lists that made top 8 at one tournament. My three named took third, he had two rookies in a squad that took fourth. I took Second with the same three named in TN, losing to the same guy that I lost to when I took third. For the points when it works, it works. When it doesn't it's normally a spectacular failure of unmodifiable agility dice (blanks).

Enough people have spoken to the numbers that I don't feel like say anything about it. I will say that the X-wing has lots its shine. It has been out for a long time. All the named pilots are great, but I am just not that excited about flying Wedge, Luke and Biggs.

The thing that should make the X-wing unique are their astromech droids. But they really aren't that exciting. Their are some good ones, but compare the Astromech slot to any other upgrade slot - just seems lack luster. I think part of the issue has to do with the fact that with the exception of R2D2 I can never tell them apart. I can never remember which droid lets you boost, which one turns 1 maneuvers green etc.

Oh, believe you me, I know X-wings have potential. I knew even when I started the "prefacing" thread. The problem is it's just not enough.

After game after game after game, I've only been able to make Luke Skywalker work consistently because he's the only one who isn't made out of spit and prayer (his ability fortifies the prayer, what more could you want!?). Well, Tarn also works really well for his cost, but while he's a build I admire he's also not someone that gels with my play-style. Of course, there's always Biggs

Wes, Wedge etc all have some devastating potential that just don't seem to hold up against all the modified dice we're running into. Really, you'd think Wes would dominate against the popular ships since he strips them of most of their modifiers and then stresses them with R3-A2, but even naked they have just eviscerated him time and time again. Wedge likewise is a monster against low health ships, but when up against all these bloated turrets he just gets ground into a fine powder because he's let down by the ship he's in. He simply can't outlast them.

None of this would be a problem if the X-wing were mobile, but it's not. It's one of the stiffest ships out there, and thus it's going to be taking it right in the face. And then we're right back to the issue of durability.

Luke, however, lasts. Luke takes 2-3 dice shots like it's no huge deal and even has a good chance of weathering 3 HLCs before going down. The B-wing also lasts. It's not invincible by any means, in fact it's rather easy to kill, but it's also very efficiently costed and is guaranteed to take at least 7 damage (taking unlucky direct hits into account) before going down. In the space between those 7 damage, you can definitely use it or your squad to inflict some necessary damage.

As for astromechs, sad to say a lot of them suck or are put to better use on the Y-wing or E-wing

R3-A2 is the shining star, imo, and is only now being brought out into its full glory to combat phantoms and interceptors and large ships etc. The X-wing PS 8 characters hit a perfect niche of PS 10 and cost that the Y-wing can't achieve (stupid lack of native EPT) and the E-wing is way too expensive for.

R2-D2 is also money, but he's wasted on the fragile X-wing (Luke excepted, of course, and fluffy to boot!) when he could grace an E-wing instead.

R2 astro is fine and dandy, especially on the stiff Y-wings, but it doesn't fix the X-wing's issues.

R7 is basically Tarn or E-wing (FCS) exclusive, the X-wing does not have the target-lock shenanigans necessary to use it while still benefiting from defensive actions

R4-D6 is actually very neat, albeit situational. He gives Biggs a few more turns to live.

Everything else, I've found to be either poorly designed (such as the early mechs that required green dice to work) or just far too situational (R7-T1, for example)

I'm consistently tabling people at my local club with this:

Wes Janson (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Opportunist (4)

R2 Astromech (1)

Luke Skywalker (28)

Opportunist (4)

R2-D2 (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If the X-Wing does need a boost it's not a big one.

The problem with producing a "fix" for the X-Wing is that it could potentially break the ship in formats of the game where it absolutely shines.

3 or 4 lowly rookies with a proton torp each are deadly and versatile in 300 point epic games against huge ships

They are tanky enough to survive the initial engagements with the Huge ship's escorts - powerful enough to punch a hole - quick enough to get through it, and carry the ordnance to pack a wallop on the main target, then finish it off with guns if they need to - or come about to take the escorts back on while your Y-Wings close to finish the job.

Sure Y-Wings are cheaper and carry more ordnance - B-Wings do to, are more resilient and probably better dogfighters - but neither has the speed to make a quick dash through a gap in the opponents escorts to deliver a fast, early, and decisive blow to his capital ship.

Perhaps once the Raider comes out, people will take more of an interest in the larger format games and realise that not every ship or upgrade is obliged to be optimal in every format of the game.

The problem with producing a "fix" for the X-Wing is that it could potentially break the ship in formats of the game where it absolutely shines.

honestly, I think epic can bite the bullet if it means improving the core game

Imo, the real problem with X-wing fixes is that there are viable configurations of the ship. There aren't many, especially not for how many cards it's gotten across the core-set/expansion/transport, but it's more than ships such as the E-wing.

Biggs especially comes up as a sore point to improving the X-wing's durability.

Now, the X-wing's an okay ship. It's got a few competitive builds that preform quite well even in this dice heavy meta. But to claim it doesn't need help is being too dismissive of its many, many flaws. It's no pre-fix Tie Advance, at least, but it's nowhere near what it should be striving for.

The problem with producing a "fix" for the X-Wing is that it could potentially break the ship in formats of the game where it absolutely shines.

3 or 4 lowly rookies with a proton torp each are deadly and versatile in 300 point epic games against huge ships

They are tanky enough to survive the initial engagements with the Huge ship's escorts - powerful enough to punch a hole - quick enough to get through it, and carry the ordnance to pack a wallop on the main target, then finish it off with guns if they need to - or come about to take the escorts back on while your Y-Wings close to finish the job.

Sure Y-Wings are cheaper and carry more ordnance - B-Wings do to, are more resilient and probably better dogfighters - but neither has the speed to make a quick dash through a gap in the opponents escorts to deliver a fast, early, and decisive blow to his capital ship.

Perhaps once the Raider comes out, people will take more of an interest in the larger format games and realise that not every ship or upgrade is obliged to be optimal in every format of the game.

I'd accept this if we were talking about the Y-wing not being viable in 100 point games, but this is the X-wing.

I sort of expect it to be not mathematically inferior to: 2 ships it was designed to replace (Z-95, Y-wing) and a heavy assault gunboat (B-wing)

It is interesting to see how the theme has changed so much with the X-Wing. Only a week or so ago it was the Generic X-Wing that only needed a fix. Luke, Wes, Wedge, Biggs, Tarn (oh yeah Tarn), etc... saw action.

Now we're hearing "There aren't many" and "Biggs [...] as a sore point".

Between here and over at BGG it has become clear that many want a fix for all X-Wing pilots, no not everyone but many. It must outmaneuver the TIE Interceptor, be as tanky and mobile as a B-Wing, as good a filler as the Z-95, and keep the named pilots and droids just to be sure.

You know me... I'd be happy accepting the fact that the X-Wing is an okay ship and simply awesome in the right hands but until we fix it we'll just have to wait and see.

P.S. Is it true where the Wave 5 recap stats that the Imperials only win 38% of the time? Are we fixing the wrong ship just for the name?

It is interesting to see how the theme has changed so much with the X-Wing. Only a week or so ago it was the Generic X-Wing that only needed a fix. Luke, Wes, Wedge, Biggs, Tarn (oh yeah Tarn), etc... saw action.

Now we're hearing "There aren't many" and "Biggs [...] as a sore point".

Between here and over at BGG it has become clear that many want a fix for all X-Wing pilots, no not everyone but many. It must outmaneuver the TIE Interceptor, be as tanky and mobile as a B-Wing, as good a filler as the Z-95, and keep the named pilots and droids just to be sure.

You know me... I'd be happy accepting the fact that the X-Wing is an okay ship and simply awesome in the right hands but until we fix it we'll just have to wait and see.

P.S. Is it true where the Wave 5 recap stats that the Imperials only win 38% of the time? Are we fixing the wrong ship just for the name?

Nobody has made this claim friend.

Again, the named pilots might have good abilities, but they all suffer from being tied to an X-wing, meaning people like Wedge and Wes will be wiped out before they can meaningfully contribute.

Yeah Tarn and R7 is very durable, but there's not a lot you can do with him upgrade wise (no ept, no astro slot) to help his offense vs high agility or high HP ships.

I love my X-wings, I tend to use Wes and Porkins then throw in the god bwing Keyan and clean up the mess

It is interesting to see how the theme has changed so much with the X-Wing. Only a week or so ago it was the Generic X-Wing that only needed a fix. Luke, Wes, Wedge, Biggs, Tarn (oh yeah Tarn), etc... saw action.

Now we're hearing "There aren't many" and "Biggs [...] as a sore point".

Between here and over at BGG it has become clear that many want a fix for all X-Wing pilots, no not everyone but many. It must outmaneuver the TIE Interceptor, be as tanky and mobile as a B-Wing, as good a filler as the Z-95, and keep the named pilots and droids just to be sure.

You know me... I'd be happy accepting the fact that the X-Wing is an okay ship and simply awesome in the right hands but until we fix it we'll just have to wait and see.

P.S. Is it true where the Wave 5 recap stats that the Imperials only win 38% of the time? Are we fixing the wrong ship just for the name?

I don't think anyone is saying the X wing needs to be better than other ships merely on par.

The win percentages imperial versus rebel have nothing to do with this conversation. If the X wing was the most used ship in the winning list, maybe, but it's not. When you consider lists that include an X wing, if you remove Biggs' who is used for the pilot ability not for the ship I am certain X wing utilization is low, but I haven't crunched the numbers to know for sure.