The X-Wing does have the 1 forward and 1 bank, though, which can compensate for the lack of boost/barrel roll.

It's not like the X is ever going to fly like an arc dodging dog fighter; if it sees play, it'll be in a jousting list, and it hardly needs a barrel roll in that role. Extra durability and/or a discount would serve it much better.

The X-Wing does have the 1 forward and 1 bank, though, which can compensate for the lack of boost/barrel roll.

It's not like the X is ever going to fly like an arc dodging dog fighter; if it sees play, it'll be in a jousting list, and it hardly needs a barrel roll in that role. Extra durability and/or a discount would serve it much better.

imo, they really don't. A one hard would've compensated a bit better, since the bank really doesn't tilt the firing arc far enough to compensate for a lack of post maneuver action.

besides, the B-wing has the above maneuvers and barrel roll. It does not move like an arc dodger, it just doesn't move like a 2" by 4"

barrel-rolls are incredible value especially outside of an arcdodging role because they set up blocks and manuevers for future turns. There is nothing more frustrating than flying Z-95s or some such and having to spend a lot of game time planning routes because those stiff buggers can't make lateral moves

(at least Zs can joust effectively )

boost would be similarly useful

I don't know, we've had Expert Handling since the beginning and even on Porkins who can remove the stress it never really becomes very useful in practice, especially since one would tend to fly X-wings together in formation.

I'd love to see the X-wing get a unique ability to set it apart, like getting to keep its action when hitting another ship. An X-wing without its action is as good as dead. Mitigate that and you'd go someway to making it last longer in the dogfight.

expert handling is an incredibly poor substitute for barrel-roll

1.) it's 2 more points on an overpriced ship

2.) it eats up an ept slot

3.) it stresses you on a ship with limited green maneuvers, unless you want it to eat your astromech slot too

plus porkins' ability hurts himself, so it's not exactly free license to use EH

Yes, it's not a great card but my point is that it hardly gets used even when it has been brought to the table. I've always wanted to use it, but it just ends up being wasted. Not because of the stress penalty necessarily but because, I would argue, it's a third action on a ship which needs to either focus or target lock.

there are several opportunities in the game to utilize barrel roll where it would be useless to take a focus (no shots coming or going) or a target-lock (out of range or already have one) or where you'd want a barrel-roll regardless (strategic choice for the player to make)

the stress penalty, upgrade slot usage, and point cost make expert handling utter garbage except in very few instances (jolly good fun on large ships, especially with the k4 security droid ). Having access to it does not reflect how a ship would preform if it had barrel roll as a native action.

do note that I don't think native barrel-roll will "fix" the ship by itself (native boost would, because thrusters) but it would be huge and would definitely bring back some more of the named pilots

Yes i would also say that boost fits the X-Wing better than barrel roll and if you ask me the ship should have had it from the beginning. Sadly in Wave 1 it was not yet "invented".

Native boost would catapult the X-Wing immediately back to one of the top competitive spots i think. Because PTL would be much more useful, and high PS pilots would be important because they could finally adjust their movement if need be. Autothrusters would also strengthen the ship's defense quite a bit.

Now the imperial Fanboys will start to cry of course, but i say the X-Wing deserves a spot under the top ships in this game, and the meta could handle an X-Wing with Boost quite easily i think!

imperial fanboys can take the hit if it seems seeing less of the fat bastard

I don't know if the X-wing would rocket to the top (though PTL + R2 astro is sorely tempting,) but it would certainly be less of a free kill for HLCs and turrets and it would have an added bit of maneuverability to compensate for its strangely low jousting value. Just being able to better navigate obstructions would help out immensely, as those tend to be an awful chore for Xs/Ys/Zs to get through at times but only the later two get compensation for it (2ndary turrets or title, and incredible jousting value respectively)

plus, I would be beside myself if I could shave four points off of the stress wing

the question then would be how it would affect the A-wing, to which I'd say "not much." The A-wing's far cheaper and has a superior dial, cementing it as far more maneuverable even if the X-wing acquires boost and maintaining its status as "biggest pain in the ass this side of the outer rim" when it comes to blocking. Plus, no X-wing even with EU can move like Farrel, or justify outmanuever as one of its two epts

Because it was wave 1 and everything was balanced then

But yeah, I think the X could stand to have BR. It would add some versatility to what is a good but inflexible dial and limited action bar and make PTL a much more useful choice on EPT X Wings. At the moment Expert Handling isnt a great choice on an X, bar maybe Porkins who can eat stress. PTL Wedge with Engine Upgrade is still viable though and would be just as viable (and cheaper) with built-in BR. The X would still be in the same points bracket as the B (which IMO is the problem for what the X Wing is at the moment), but wouldnt really make the B any less superior for that.

It could also stand to have evade, as that fits its role as a fighter and fatter ships can get evade. At least it would up the survivability of the X.

I agree that what we will probably see is a few new astromech upgrades, which I would welcome for the variety and improvement to the X, Y and E Wings that would bring. But it seems to me the wrong way to go about giving the X Wing its needed boost.

i was just thinking that they dont want to improve the x-wing without improving the tie-fighter. these are the two iconic wave1 ships so in some ways it makes sense for them to improve BOTH or neither.

i agree the x-wing should have BR, perhaps as a generic ability from a title card. How about something like...

X-Wing Title - X-Wing only. Your action bar contains the barrel roll action. If this pilot has Pilot Skill 6 or more they may add an evade token to their ship whenever they barrel roll.

i was just thinking that they dont want to improve the x-wing without improving the tie-fighter. these are the two iconic wave1 ships so in some ways it makes sense for them to improve BOTH or neither.

Except the TIE fighter is a fantastic ship that still sees regular competitive play, is mathematically one of the best ships in the game and (though this one is pretty subjective) 'feels' like you're actually flying a TIE fighter.

The X-wing has none of those things. It's just a Tie fighter with a worse dial and action bar, and 2 shields.

Because it was wave 1 and everything was balanced then

But yeah, I think the X could stand to have BR. It would add some versatility to what is a good but inflexible dial and limited action bar and make PTL a much more useful choice on EPT X Wings. At the moment Expert Handling isnt a great choice on an X, bar maybe Porkins who can eat stress. PTL Wedge with Engine Upgrade is still viable though and would be just as viable (and cheaper) with built-in BR. The X would still be in the same points bracket as the B (which IMO is the problem for what the X Wing is at the moment), but wouldnt really make the B any less superior for that.

It could also stand to have evade, as that fits its role as a fighter and fatter ships can get evade. At least it would up the survivability of the X.

I agree that what we will probably see is a few new astromech upgrades, which I would welcome for the variety and improvement to the X, Y and E Wings that would bring. But it seems to me the wrong way to go about giving the X Wing its needed boost.

i was just thinking that they dont want to improve the x-wing without improving the tie-fighter. these are the two iconic wave1 ships so in some ways it makes sense for them to improve BOTH or neither.

seems like a false dichotomy

Juggler has already run the numbers and judged the Tie-Fighter to be mathematically superior to the X-wing in terms of base stats (which wouldn't matter as much if the X-wing had any sort of ability outside of its base stats).

The Tie-Fighter has been a viable even top-tier competitive ship for every single wave up to and even including 5.

Even when faced with a ship with a superior jousting value (Z-95, by a smidge), the Tie Fighter shines through with an excellent dial and access to the barrel-roll action.

The Tie even enjoys a sizable collection of very viable named pilots (outside of gundark, I don't get why that guy has a range limitation)

The Tie wants for nothing, why does it need to be improved?

Best I can imagine is the X-wing fixes comes in Rebel Aces 2.0 and some new Tie Fighter pilots come in Imperial Aces 2.0, even though other ships need more options way more than fighters do

Better yet, we'll switch "aces"

Whereas imperials was two interceptors, imperials 2 could be a fighter and a bomber

Whereas rebels was a b-wing and an a-wing, rebels 2 could be two X-wings

problem is collecting one of every X-wing expansion (core, wave 1, transport, hypothetical aces) would give you five

i was just thinking that they dont want to improve the x-wing without improving the tie-fighter. these are the two iconic wave1 ships so in some ways it makes sense for them to improve BOTH or neither.

Except the TIE fighter is a fantastic ship that still sees regular competitive play, is mathematically one of the best ships in the game and (though this one is pretty subjective) 'feels' like you're actually flying a TIE fighter.

The X-wing has none of those things. It's just a Tie fighter with a worse dial and action bar, and 2 shields.

true but what if they let the tie-fighter remove a target lock token when it barrel rolled, just like expert handling. it could be limited to high PS pilots. you could even give the a free evade token and a stress token but that would be OP.

before we ask the question "why not?" we should probably ask the more relevant question ("why?")

before we ask the question "why not?" we should probably ask the more relevant question ("why?")

And if we answer "yes" to why we must then ask the relevant question of "what could go wrong?"

A title card that added post maneuver movement options would be great for high PS X-Wings. No, they won't ever be arc dodgers, but even getting them pointed the right way is a huge help. Something to consider: PTL + R2 is a potent combination on any ship. R2 gives the X-Wing and E-Wing more green than the Tie Interceptor. So any title needs to respect that power and not go overboard.

Unfortunately thus far FFG have respected the X-Wing a bit too much.

So:

Title

Rogue Squadron (weak version)

E-Wing and X-Wing only

1 point

Action: you may perform a free boost action

-OR-

Rogue Squadron (strong version)

Title

E-Wing and X-Wing only

2 points

Add the Boost action to your action bar

Wraith Squadron

Title

E-Wing and X-Wing only

1 point

At the beginning of the combat phase, you may aquire a Target Lock on any ship within range 3 which an ally has a Target Lock on.

The Rogue Squadron titles should be good for high PS ships, and the Wraith Squadron title ought to make low PS ships better.

I did not read the whole thread, so if someone suggested that before, just ignore it ;-)

What about giving the X-Wings via X-Wing only astromechs/titles/modifications access to some of the actions from the epic ships? Biggs with reinforce might be too good, but would that help? It would make the X-Wing unique in standard play, being the only ship with access to that actions.

I did not read the whole thread, so if someone suggested that before, just ignore it ;-)

What about giving the X-Wings via X-Wing only astromechs/titles/modifications access to some of the actions from the epic ships? Biggs with reinforce might be too good, but would that help? It would make the X-Wing unique in standard play, being the only ship with access to that actions.

Funny you should mention that because Squad Leader and the Coordinate action are the same thing.

I could see large ships getting a restricted Recover action, but not small ones.

The Reinforce action would have to be heavily restricted, by use or cost.

I want to see a Chardaan Refit type card for torpedoes and astromechs.

Or two modification title card like the Royal Guard.

Or a two EPT title card like the A-wing.

An upgrade that lets you keep your green tokens until the end phase.

[...]

The Reinforce action would have to be heavily restricted, by use or cost.

[...]

An upgrade that lets you keep your green tokens until the end phase.

Throw in some support with Jan Ors (Crew), and the modification will be the same as the Reinforce action, or am I wrong? (Not saying it is bad, just curious).

[...]

The Reinforce action would have to be heavily restricted, by use or cost.

[...]

An upgrade that lets you keep your green tokens until the end phase.

Throw in some support with Jan Ors (Crew), and the modification will be the same as the Reinforce action, or am I wrong? (Not saying it is bad, just curious).

Keeping your evade token(s) would be the same as Reinforce, I missed my own duplication there.

With Jan Ors that would be ridiculous (Reinforce X2+), it would have to be restricted to one evade token.

And then my original concern was that it would unbalance 1 X-wing vs 2 TIE formula,

because you have 32 vs 23 part of it becoming 33 vs 23 or worse, it seems broken without restrictions.

I was originally assuming something that allowed X-wings to do an evade action in the first place,

and perhaps a fix for X-wings is that simple. But Evade and a Reinforce type upgrade is too much.

Rogue Leader

Title, Cost 3

All friendly ships within a range of two

may consider their action bar

to include the evade action.

I think there's a lot of distance in people's minds between how the X-Wing plays in this game vs. how it should. I think FFG will eventually rectify this, but I'm enjoying the ideas in this thread and will be throwing house rules in my casual games until we see the official fix.

With that said, how about this combination of previous ideas to achieve a more thematic flying experience for the X:

Side Slip

The x wing has a weak barrel roll called 'side slip' where instead of using the 1 straight template the long way, you use it the short way.

Quad Fire

After the X wing causes damage, roll one or two additional dice and apply damage.

One last thematic issue to fix in my opinion after this would be torpedoes.

i like the idea of a recon title or torpedo upgrade that replaces torpedoes with systems

Funny you should mention that because Squad Leader and the Coordinate action are the same thing.

Not true.

Funny you should mention that because Squad Leader and the Coordinate action are the same thing.

Not true.

The lower pilot skill? who cares? I was talking about the mechanic.

This thread...

They just want to argue... cause it's fun.

What's less interesting/funny than a thread that won't die?

People making fun of the thread not dying.