People keep saying the X-Wing is overpriced, it's not. The Blue Squad B is under priced, that's the problem. It never should've been 22 pts or had 5 shields and unfortunately FFG won't errata anything so we're stuck with it, so now everything needs a title/modification because someone really dropped the ball on that one.

People keep saying the X-Wing is overpriced, it's not. The Blue Squad B is under priced, that's the problem. It never should've been 22 pts or had 5 shields and unfortunately FFG won't errata anything so we're stuck with it, so now everything needs a title/modification because someone really dropped the ball on that one.

I think you will find that others have calculated the 'true cost' of the X-Wing and found it was a tad expensive...

Perhaps you can correct these poor misguided souls wrong and show us your calculations?

Jugglers post pretty much says it all. Bottom 3 effectiveness, and i dare to say that the Advanced will disappear from there as soon as we will get the title! The Scyk is not around for very long and i can't say if it's going to stay at it's bottom spot.

Fact is that this should pretty much be the end of the discussion if the X-Wing is okay or not. It's not, quite clearly. So could we now please start discussing what to do with it. Besides there is an inteview with one of the lead designers (from Gencon i believe) where he acknowledges that the X-Wing should get a buff. Eat that imperial fanboys .

Well i made my proposition quite a while ago. The X-Wing needs mobility because it is the only small ship tgere is that has neither turret nor boost/barrel roll. And it does not get any discount for this fact!

S-Foils

Title. X-Wing only. (It could be a modification but X-Wings do already have S-Foils as you might agree if they made it a modification it should be called Improved S-Foils)

0 Points

Immediately before revealing your maneuver dial each turn, you may choose to close S-Foils.

If you do so, you must interchange the X-Wings agility value and attack value until the end of this game round. If you do so, you may execute a free boost action after completing your maneuver this turn.

(Maybe: On turns you choose to not close S-Foils, gain the barrel roll action on your action bar)

With the additional barrel roll the card would need to cost 1-2 points i think.

"Fixing" the X-wing through its generics:

The solution can also not lie in an Astromech because you would just make some pilots that combo well with it usable like Tarn Mison R7 for example), but the generics still would suck. The Astromech slot needs to stay free while the ship needs a small buff.

People keep saying the X-Wing is overpriced, it's not. The Blue Squad B is under priced, that's the problem. It never should've been 22 pts or had 5 shields and unfortunately FFG won't errata anything so we're stuck with it, so now everything needs a title/modification because someone really dropped the ball on that one.

Ah so now the B-Wing is the problem... That makes zero sense. The X-Wing is not only incompetitive when compared to the B-Wing but compared to most ships in this game.

It's pretty easy to add new Astromechs though, and some that would be free can help out.

You can practically add an Astromech to do anything, Boost for Stress? Fine. Allow S-Turns? Sure. Barrel Roll? Ok. Force an Opponent to Reroll 1 Evade Die? Sure.

What's nice, is that they could really boost X-Wings through astromechs and an astromech cost reduction title while leaving the costs balanced for use on Y's and E's.

If you look at his recent posts, he has one asking for help vs B-Wings in his local meta.

People keep saying the X-Wing is overpriced, it's not. The Blue Squad B is under priced, that's the problem. It never should've been 22 pts or had 5 shields and unfortunately FFG won't errata anything so we're stuck with it, so now everything needs a title/modification because someone really dropped the ball on that one.

Ah so now the B-Wing is the problem... That makes zero sense. The X-Wing is not only incompetitive when compared to the B-Wing but compared to most ships in this game.

have to agree

B-wings are absolute perfect where they are, whereas the X-wings were compared unfavorably to the Tie Fighter since the coreset

It's pretty easy to add new Astromechs though, and some that would be free can help out.

You can practically add an Astromech to do anything, Boost for Stress? Fine. Allow S-Turns? Sure. Barrel Roll? Ok. Force an Opponent to Reroll 1 Evade Die? Sure.

What's nice, is that they could really boost X-Wings through astromechs and an astromech cost reduction title while leaving the costs balanced for use on Y's and E's.

People keep saying the X-Wing is overpriced, it's not. The Blue Squad B is under priced, that's the problem. It never should've been 22 pts or had 5 shields and unfortunately FFG won't errata anything so we're stuck with it, so now everything needs a title/modification because someone really dropped the ball on that one.

Ah so now the B-Wing is the problem... That makes zero sense. The X-Wing is not only incompetitive when compared to the B-Wing but compared to most ships in this game.

If you look at his recent posts, he has one asking for help vs B-Wings in his local meta.

A discount on modifications would also make sense since the X-Wing is the most numerous fighters for the Rebeks and as such shuould be frequently modified...

This thread...

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

There might be some truth to this. It is the total lack of anything that hurts the X-wing so much. It isn't a tank, it isn't mobile, it isn't hard to hit, it doesn't have a system slot to help it modify movement or dice... it doesn't have much of anything going for it. For 1 more point one could instead fly a B-wing. I'm not sure I can come up with a reason why someone would want to fly a Rookie over a Blue. This is a bad thing...

I'm not saying the B-wing is uber awesome, in fact every other B-wing is kind of lackluster. Blues at 23 pts or with 4 shields would still be great but there's no putting it back in the bottle so to speak. Rookie X-Wings aren't terrible, in fact people used them all the time before B-wings and they did just fine, Blue B's just made them obsolete. The Blue B's were power creep, I'm not complaining about them it's a normal part of a games progression that things ramp up, but call a spade a spade, without Blue B's, and it's just Blues B's, the other B's are fine, no one would complain about X-wings. Now X-wing need help, just the way it is.

If you look at his recent posts, he has one asking for help vs B-Wings in his local meta.

I... what? You went through my post history? To discover a single post where I talk about B-wings aaaaaaand what exactly? I love that you just through that out there.

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

There might be some truth to this. It is the total lack of anything that hurts the X-wing so much. It isn't a tank, it isn't mobile, it isn't hard to hit, it doesn't have a system slot to help it modify movement or dice... it doesn't have much of anything going for it. For 1 more point one could instead fly a B-wing. I'm not sure I can come up with a reason why someone would want to fly a Rookie over a Blue. This is a bad thing...

Well, there would be at least one reason: your list has 21 points remaining and you need a filler. So, the B-Wing's out, and you can't afford a pair of Bandits. Rookie X Wing seems like the most natural fit in that (admittedly rare) case.

I'm not saying the B-wing is uber awesome, in fact every other B-wing is kind of lackluster. Blues at 23 pts or with 4 shields would still be great but there's no putting it back in the bottle so to speak. Rookie X-Wings aren't terrible, in fact people used them all the time before B-wings and they did just fine, Blue B's just made them obsolete. The Blue B's were power creep, I'm not complaining about them it's a normal part of a games progression that things ramp up, but call a spade a spade, without Blue B's, and it's just Blues B's, the other B's are fine, no one would complain about X-wings. Now X-wing need help, just the way it is.

No, the B-Wing is not undercosted, it is just decently costed. And the X-Wing is about 2 points overcosted. That's not only a personal feeling, it has often enough been calculated...

And the X-Wing was in bad shape from the start when compared to the standard Academy Pilot (that we need to compare all other ships to as a standard, as does MJ iirc). From the very beginning of X-Wing that was, not only since the B-Wing came out. The X-Wing is not in the spot it currently is because of the B-Wing. Nearly any other ship compares favorably to it in some way.

I think if you talk about power creep in terms of bang for the buck, there is pretty much only one ship we should really look at. And that's certainly not the B-Wing, that's the Phantom. 4 Attacks, all the slots it gets, in a useful combination, highest PS for a generic, unique mechanic, and for seemingly no prize increase... For 25 points base. The B-Wing is a good versatile ship, but to call that undercosted does not make sense to me at all. I also have never heard it from anyone until now.

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

Some of the non-generic pilots are only 1 point overcosted instead of 2, but that should not be an issue. Vader also was less overcosted than generics and he still gets the full 4 points discount...

I'm not saying the B-wing is uber awesome, in fact every other B-wing is kind of lackluster. Blues at 23 pts or with 4 shields would still be great but there's no putting it back in the bottle so to speak. Rookie X-Wings aren't terrible, in fact people used them all the time before B-wings and they did just fine, Blue B's just made them obsolete. The Blue B's were power creep, I'm not complaining about them it's a normal part of a games progression that things ramp up, but call a spade a spade, without Blue B's, and it's just Blues B's, the other B's are fine, no one would complain about X-wings. Now X-wing need help, just the way it is.

If you look at his recent posts, he has one asking for help vs B-Wings in his local meta.

I... what? You went through my post history? To discover a single post where I talk about B-wings aaaaaaand what exactly? I love that you just through that out there.

Because you came in simply to say, "X-Wing is fine, B-Wing OP."

In truth, the B-Wing is just about right. The X-Wing is too expensive for what it is capable of. The easiest way is either a title that just drops the price (though if it sacrifices an upgrade slot it hurts using those more), or, ideally, decreasing the cost of something that should be a standard piece of equipment for the X-Wing, the astromech. This not only allows flexibility based on the astromech used, but leaves more space for things like Ordnance or Modifications. Instead of limiting it to generic pilots, I think having it only at -2 to the cost of the droid would work nicely. It just allows you to run 3 named + EPT/Mods, some generics with upgrades, or fit a useful X-Wing into more squads without it just being fodder.

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

Some of the non-generic pilots are only 1 point overcosted instead of 2, but that should not be an issue. Vader also was less overcosted than generics and he still gets the full 4 points discount...

Yes, but Vader is also probably a bit too strong for his points now, and the named X Wing pilots aren't nearly in the same position that pre-X1 Vader was.

For example: the proposed 2 point discount on Astromechs for the X Wing brings Luke + R2 in at 30 points. That strikes me as being a tad too cheap. Biggs could pick-up R7 for free, which would almost certainly make him one of the most valuable 25 point investments in the game. Hobbie would get R3 for free. Tarn + R7 - already a strong option - goes down to 23 points, almost as cheap as a basic B-Wing. Why would I run a pair of Rookies for 42 points when I could run an even beefier Biggs and/or Tarn for 47 points?

I think any proposed Title card ought to have it's impact limited to the generic pilots, though. Biggs, Luke, etc, do not really need any point discounts.

Some of the non-generic pilots are only 1 point overcosted instead of 2, but that should not be an issue. Vader also was less overcosted than generics and he still gets the full 4 points discount...

Yes, but Vader is also probably a bit too strong for his points now, and the named X Wing pilots aren't nearly in the same position that pre-X1 Vader was.

For example: the proposed 2 point discount on Astromechs for the X Wing brings Luke + R2 in at 30 points. That strikes me as being a tad too cheap. Biggs could pick-up R7 for free, which would almost certainly make him one of the most valuable 25 point investments in the game. Hobbie would get R3 for free. Tarn + R7 - already a strong option - goes down to 23 points, almost as cheap as a basic B-Wing. Why would I run a pair of Rookies for 42 points when I could run an even beefier Biggs and/or Tarn for 47 points?

Yea, I was considering that as well. The issue, is they tried to make the base ship good through pilots. So the ship stats are still terrible, but the pilot skills are great. Really, the extra 2 points per X-Wing means you can pick up an additional 6pts of something in a Wedge, Wes, Biggs build. Tarn + R7 is pretty nice, if they don't pop him early, but the difference between 23 and 25 again, is minor. Not applying it to named pilots also means that pilots for the X-Wing that are not very good, will still be poor choices even after the "fix".

Biggs is just a whole separate issue, you don't take him for his ship, just his ability, the same really goes for all the X-Wing pilots to a lesser degree. If you could cram Biggs onto a B-Wing, it would be done in an instant.

It could just apply to generic droids, but that leaves Tarn as possibly too strong (if they ignore him till end game). But let's look at an example. Wedge, Luke, Biggs. It basically just lets you cram a Hull Upgrade on Biggs, and 4 points of Mods onto the other 2. Maybe Engine upgrade for Luke and R2 so he can Green Straight 2 and boost. Stronger? Yea. Stronger than BBBBZ? Doubtful. Stronger than 4xTIE Advanced with Advanced Targetting/Accuracy Corrector? Probably about equal.

Seems pretty reasonable really.

As to why take 2 Rookies at 42pts when you can have Biggs and Tarn for 47? Because they fit perfectly into that point gap leaving you with an initiative bid. And they can take a droid to make them useful...

I'm just repeating and adding to previous people's ideas, but I like this combo:

Quad Fire

Modification. X-Wing only. 4 or 5 points.

When your primary attack damages an opponent, roll two additional attack dice and add the result to the damage. This additional damage cannot be canceled by the defender.

X-Wing Refit

Title. Non-Unique X-Wing only. 0 points.

If you equip a modification upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

By "non-unique" I mean the generic pilots but I wasn't sure whether there's an official term for them in the rules.

As noted by others, this doesn't increase the X-Wing's chance to hit, but increases the damage potential if it does. And the Refit card plays to the thematic idea that X-Wings were often customized. The 3 point reduction is picked based on MajorJuggler's assessment that the generics are overcosted by 3 points.

I'm not familiar with the literature... Do other Rebel ships have Linked Fire? As a fairly expensive modification without the Refit title, it might not break things to make this a "Rebels only" card instead of "X-Wing only".

I'm just repeating and adding to previous people's ideas, but I like this combo:

Linked Fire

Modification. X-Wing only. 4 or 5 points.

When your primary attack damages an opponent, roll two additional attack dice and add the result to the damage. This additional damage cannot be canceled by the defender.

X-Wing Refit

Title. Non-Unique X-Wing only. 0 points.

If you equip a modification upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

By "non-unique" I mean the generic pilots but I wasn't sure whether there's an official term for them in the rules.

As noted by others, this doesn't increase the X-Wing's chance to hit, but increases the damage potential if it does. And the Refit card plays to the thematic idea that X-Wings were often customized. The 3 point reduction is picked based on MajorJuggler's assessment that the generics are overcosted by 3 points.

I'm not familiar with the literature... Do other Rebel ships have Linked Fire? As a fairly expensive modification without the Refit title, it might not break things to make this a "Rebels only" card instead of "X-Wing only".

change linked fire to quad fire as linked fire should enable the firing of cannon and primary otherwise great

I'm just repeating and adding to previous people's ideas, but I like this combo:

Linked Fire

Modification. X-Wing only. 4 or 5 points.

When your primary attack damages an opponent, roll two additional attack dice and add the result to the damage. This additional damage cannot be canceled by the defender.

X-Wing Refit

Title. Non-Unique X-Wing only. 0 points.

If you equip a modification upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

By "non-unique" I mean the generic pilots but I wasn't sure whether there's an official term for them in the rules.

As noted by others, this doesn't increase the X-Wing's chance to hit, but increases the damage potential if it does. And the Refit card plays to the thematic idea that X-Wings were often customized. The 3 point reduction is picked based on MajorJuggler's assessment that the generics are overcosted by 3 points.

I'm not familiar with the literature... Do other Rebel ships have Linked Fire? As a fairly expensive modification without the Refit title, it might not break things to make this a "Rebels only" card instead of "X-Wing only".

...A 1 point upgrade (after the the Title) that gives an X Wing up to 5 attack dice at range 2-3, 6 dice at range 1?

I think maybe this would be overdoing it.

I'm just repeating and adding to previous people's ideas, but I like this combo:

Linked Fire

Modification. X-Wing only. 4 or 5 points.

When your primary attack damages an opponent, roll two additional attack dice and add the result to the damage. This additional damage cannot be canceled by the defender.

X-Wing Refit

Title. Non-Unique X-Wing only. 0 points.

If you equip a modification upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

By "non-unique" I mean the generic pilots but I wasn't sure whether there's an official term for them in the rules.

As noted by others, this doesn't increase the X-Wing's chance to hit, but increases the damage potential if it does. And the Refit card plays to the thematic idea that X-Wings were often customized. The 3 point reduction is picked based on MajorJuggler's assessment that the generics are overcosted by 3 points.

I'm not familiar with the literature... Do other Rebel ships have Linked Fire? As a fairly expensive modification without the Refit title, it might not break things to make this a "Rebels only" card instead of "X-Wing only".

...A 1 point upgrade (after the the Title) that gives an X Wing up to 5 attack dice at range 2-3, 6 dice at range 1?

I think maybe this would be overdoing it.

It's a little more subtle than that. The X-Wing first has to get past the defense with its standard 3 attack dice (or 4 at range 1) roll. If that succeeds, then the extra unmodifiable and uncancelable dice kick in. And if this still proves to be too much of a good thing, then it could be nerfed to one extra die.

Just for fun recently I've been playing a list with 4 rookie's all with hull upgrade. I have to say they survivability of the x-wing with 4 hull compared to 3 has shown to be significant. Most games I have played at least 2 or 3 of them are getting an extra round on the table because on that extra hull. If a title were to be made I would seriously be interested in one that gave an extra hull for 1 or 2 points over boost or barrel roll.

I run 4 rookies with Hull and R2s fairly regularly in casual games. The extra hull really does make the X last longer. A free hull is definitely one possible fix that could work, and it is one of several effective and thematic ideas which has been discussed on this thread. However I am not sure that simply throwing extra hull on the X Wing is the best fix as it needs a reason to be taken OVER the B Wing, which has been raised on this thread many times. A nekkid Blue B Wing still wins out over a tankier (6 HP) Rookie X IMO due to its actions and upgrade combinations.

I also think there have also been many good arguments made for a post dial positional action like BR on the X, though Boost doesnt seem to suit IMO (X Wing wasnt THAT fast) and engine upgrade is a card that has been widely used on X Wings for a while if the anti phantom builds are anything to go by (Luke/Wes with VI, Engine Upgrade and R3-A2). However a BR action wouldnt really distinguish the X Wing from the B Wing at this point- they would have the same action bar and the current X vs B imbalance would still apply.

Though I would love to see more droid choices for rebels and discounted droids would be great, I am still not sure that simply adding stuff to the X wing via an astromech upgrade makes sense. I am not convinced that a droid can simply add the barrel roll action to the X Wing action bar, for example, as it should already be part of the fighters capabilities. A lot of the droid upgrades come with conditional requirements/penalties (i.e. R3-A2) and If you were going to add BR via droids I think it would have to be more conditional not simply a buff(i.e. free BR on a green move only).

That being said a discount on any upgrade to the X Wings might be the simplest solution, along with a selection of new droids and there have been great ideas there too.

I like the linked fire ideas that have been coming out as these capture a piece of the X Wing simulator games from Lucasarts, which many on these forums have probably played and certainly know of. The danger here is that if you grant the X Wing (4 guns) something like the Quad Fire, or Linked Fire upgrade, there will be a perfectly reasonable argument for something like interceptors (4 guns) or maybe even Phantoms (5 guns) to get the same upgrade. Interceptors and phantoms that can potentially roll 6-7 dice at R1 and 5-6 at R2-3 might not be something we want to try and balance in. This is an X Wing only thread, so I dont want to go OT, but the law of unintended consequences has to be considered.

Edited for clarity....or because im tired and coffee hasnt kicked in yet...

I also think there have also been many good arguments made for a post dial positional action like BR on the X, though Boost doesnt seem to suit IMO (X Wing wasnt THAT fast) and engine upgrade is a card that has been widely used on X Wings for a while if the anti phantom builds are anything to go by (Luke/Wes with VI, Engine Upgrade and R3-A2). However a BR action wouldnt really distinguish the X Wing from the B Wing at this point- they would have the same action bar and the current X vs B imbalance would still apply.

Though I would love to see more droid choices for rebels and discounted droids would be great, I am still not sure that simply adding stuff to the X wing via an astromech upgrade makes sense. I am not convinced that a droid can simply add the barrel roll action to the X Wing action bar, for example, as it should already be part of the fighters capabilities. A lot of the droid upgrades come with conditional requirements/penalties (i.e. R3-A2) and If you were going to add BR via droids I think it would have to be more conditional not simply a buff(i.e. free BR on a green move only).

I still don't understand why a stress-free way of barrel rolling has not been given the the X-wings. No post dial maneuvers for a non-turret ship is murder in this game. While I hope some kind of post dial maneuver is given to the X-wing, via a title, I think it's much more likely we'll just see a slew of new astromechs and maybe 1 or 2 that are X-wing only.

Because it was wave 1 and everything was balanced then

But yeah, I think the X could stand to have BR. It would add some versatility to what is a good but inflexible dial and limited action bar and make PTL a much more useful choice on EPT X Wings. At the moment Expert Handling isnt a great choice on an X, bar maybe Porkins who can eat stress. PTL Wedge with Engine Upgrade is still viable though and would be just as viable (and cheaper) with built-in BR. The X would still be in the same points bracket as the B (which IMO is the problem for what the X Wing is at the moment), but wouldnt really make the B any less superior for that.

It could also stand to have evade, as that fits its role as a fighter and fatter ships can get evade. At least it would up the survivability of the X.

I agree that what we will probably see is a few new astromech upgrades, which I would welcome for the variety and improvement to the X, Y and E Wings that would bring. But it seems to me the wrong way to go about giving the X Wing its needed boost.