I was thinking something more along the lines of:

Rogue Squadron is depleted after the battle of Endor. Too many good pilots lost their lives waiting for the deflector shield to drop off the Death Star. So, some major recruitment has to take place, and our female pilot main character is one of those fresh faces, being whipped into shape by Wedge Antilles, Tycho Celchu, and the other Rogue Squadron legends. As the pilots are preparing for battle, the Empire begins to make its move. While the death of the Emperor has rocked the Empire to its core, the Imperial Navy still has a hierarchy and command and control structure and still maintains numerical superiority over the Rebel Alliance. So, while the Alliance is busy preparing itself for what comes next, the Imperial Navy launches a major offensive. This sees a new and untested Rogue Squadron doing battle with the Empire's elite - the 181st Fighter Group under Baron Soontir Fel.

In a massive furball, Fel kills Wedge Antilles and his TIE Interceptor pilots scatter the rogues, inflicting a heavy defeat on the Alliance. Now, it's up to our main character girl, the most promising of the new pilots, to bring the Rogues back together in the wake of Antilles' death. She must motivate them, up their training, and get them ready for a rematch. That rematch comes sooner than anyone expects when the Imperial Navy learns the location of the Rebel fleet, and they move to destroy the Rebellion once and for all. Now, as the last desperate line of defense for the embattled Rebels, what's left of Rogue Squadron must fend off the weight of the Imperial Navy fighter force and use their heavy fighters and attack ships to strike a deadly counterblow in return. The stage is set for an epic duel between Soontir Fel and Antilles' young protege, which sees the new rebel leader melting the Imperial Ace into a slag heap. The Rogues trounce the 181st, and then the B-wings and Y-wings of the heavy attack squadrons cripple the majority of the Imperial Star Destroyer fleet.

Naturally the lose cannon protagonist has to learn to control herself after getting defeated by the cold calculating space British Baron?

It's a real Hollywood plot line. And calls for a training montage.

Naturally the lose cannon protagonist has to learn to control herself after getting defeated by the cold calculating space British Baron?

It's a real Hollywood plot line. And calls for a training montage.

I'll take "real Hollywood plotline" as a compliment. I loves me some tropes. But that's what TopGun was - nothing but tropes.

And top gun was great.

I haven't seen Top Gun but goodness it has certainly been talked about a lot in the past day.

You should fix that.

I don't think any of it is going to be set before Endor. It's all going to have to be post Death Star 2.

I found it curious they're still flying against TIEs in Ep 7 though.

I don't think any of it is going to be set before Endor. It's all going to have to be post Death Star 2.

I found it curious they're still flying against TIEs in Ep 7 though.

Why? To pick one at random, the F-16 is still seeing regular combat duty in a lot of countries and it's been around for almost 40 years. Change that to an Outer Rim squadron of a military complex that's been kicked in the teeth a few times, and add in some fluff for supply and requisition problems, and suddenly TIE/ln look pretty decent.

Of course none of us has any idea what it's about.

That's the whole point of mindless speculation threads. Mindless. Speculation.

I have a feeling that it won't be what most of think it's suppose to be. I haven't read the whole thread, has the concept art been pointed out?

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/03/details-on-rogue-one-concept-art.html

The concept art makes it sound more like a movie about a commando team than X-Wing pilots. I hate to be a pessimist, but you all need to remember that the Hollywood types making these movies don't give a **** about the old EU and they might have a completely different idea of what Rogues are in Star Wars. I mean, the movie might turn out completely different than the concept art... but if it isn't, you all really shouldn't except "Top Gun" in space. You'll be disappointed.

Because Rogue Squadron has never featured ground missions before...

I don't know, maybe because other than Starbuck from the new Battlestar Galactica, there have been no female fighter pilot leads in any movies ever? Or how about because Star Wars hasn't had a single female combat pilot in any of the movies? How about because girls like me grew up having to watch boys do all the things we wanted to do on TV and in movies, with the knowledge that we weren't legally allowed to do it in real life either (women couldn't be fighter pilots legally in the USA till I was 13)? There is a freak load of horrible damage that needs to be undone pronto.

And if none of those reasons is good enough, how about variety being the spice of life?

You are burning up my daily allotment of likes. If you can stomach some real horrors, Wing Commander stars Saphron Burrows as the hardened fighter ace commander. The physics, and tactics, and acting, all bad. Plot, bad. Space combat, silly but pretty.

Take the "social justice warrior" pseudo intellectual crap else where night strike. Wow, you really have it soooo bad in America. Have you ever travelled anywhere? This is an x-wing forum. Not a casting call for next semesters production of the bijingo monologues. Save it for your "Gender studies" 72 hour workshop next week entitled " Genocide and Man-spreading: is there a difference?"

You commented on other stuff so I really only want to address your point about things being worse somewhere else. Sure, they are, and likely will continue to be for a good long time. However that is irrelevant. It's a feeces-like red herring. That kind of logic would prevent anyone from addressing any problem that wasn't THE WORST problem. For example, I hope you don't ever complain about bring hungry, or try to help people who are hungry that aren't actually near death starving, you'd be a hypocrite otherwise.

You may not care about social justice here in the US, I care a lot. Far too many people are being hurt, killed and taken advantage of. Having more balanced media is a step in the right direction. Potentially a powerful one.

Finally, I found this last night, it's horribly off topic, but also awesome.

http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com

I appreciate all the likes. I saw Wing Commander in theaters and loved it while acknowledging that it was crap, but I played all the Wing Commander games too. They were great fun. If Eve's new game Eve Valkyrie allows you to be a space pirate who has an influence on the virtual cash flow of the hard core players with their big ships, I may have a new line of work beyond my PhD.

Oh and cool webcomic.

How the hell did a topic about rogue squadron get derailed by gender politics? Rogue squadron always(in books) had female members and they were great supporting characters.

Every time I hear someone whine about this I think of Rumiko Takahashi who, instead of demanding that others make things for her, went out and became the best selling female comic artist in history. To the tune of 170million copies of her works being sold worldwide. Why must something be taken away and given to someone else when it can be ADDED instead?This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy.

No, they don't like it because they are largely white guys who feel that something is being taken from them when things get more fair. Nice try though.

How the hell did a topic about rogue squadron get derailed by gender politics? Rogue squadron always(in books) had female members and they were great supporting characters.

Every time I hear someone whine about this I think of Rumiko Takahashi who, instead of demanding that others make things for her, went out and became the best selling female comic artist in history. To the tune of 170million copies of her works being sold worldwide. Why must something be taken away and given to someone else when it can be ADDED instead?This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy.

I've been writing fiction with powerful female characters for ten years. I actually have explicitly been rejected on a scifi manuscript because of the gender of the character. I guess I just didn't work hard enough.

No, they don't like it because they are largely white guys who feel that something is being taken from them when things get more fair. Nice try though.

How is demanding others make things for you and that they have an obligation to do so, not lazy? Thanks for playing the race card when nobody else did though. Can't be racist against white folk right?

How the hell did a topic about rogue squadron get derailed by gender politics? Rogue squadron always(in books) had female members and they were great supporting characters.

Every time I hear someone whine about this I think of Rumiko Takahashi who, instead of demanding that others make things for her, went out and became the best selling female comic artist in history. To the tune of 170million copies of her works being sold worldwide. Why must something be taken away and given to someone else when it can be ADDED instead?This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy.

I've been writing fiction with powerful female characters for ten years. I actually have explicitly been rejected on a scifi manuscript because of the gender of the character. I guess I just didn't work hard enough.

...of course we have to take you at your word that your publisher was misogynistic about your story at a time when everyone and their uncle is falling over themselves to pander to women... Nevertheless, good for you, I'm serious, not enough people do things like that and just go "#change!!11!!" and think they're doing something. Do you have a link to your stuff?

Equality of outcome is not equality. Certain demographics will always be represented more in other things, as people have free will to chose their own way, you will never see a 50/50 split in everything.

Teh,

Your hyperbole is strong, but misplaced. Comics, movies, books these are services provided. The providers need to cater to my desires if they want my money. Why, in this one instance, do you find that objectionable? Don't you ever ask your service providers for the things you want? Do you ever order your meals different than they are printed on the menu? Who are you to say hold the onions eh? Make your own sandwich...

What you are saying only sounds reasonable to you because of an unspoken special pleading fallacy.

As to my 'race card' I'm white, and a guy. I'm just paying attention to how heavily things are weighted in my favor. I Prefer a more even field. Maybe you like life on easy mode and don't care who has to play on hard to let you be there.

getting back on topic.Erisi Dlarit the women could play her.

Every time I hear someone whine about this I think of Rumiko Takahashi who, instead of demanding that others make things for her, went out and became the best selling female comic artist in history. To the tune of 170million copies of her works being sold worldwide. Why must something be taken away and given to someone else when it can be ADDED instead?This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy.

• Making statements in support of things you don't care about is "whining".
• "...everyone and their uncle is falling over themselves to pander to women...". [follow up post]
• "This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy".

I don't think I can make any response to these comments that won't get me a warning point and the thread locked so I'm just going to talk about Star Wars instead:

Change that to an Outer Rim squadron of a military complex that's been kicked in the teeth a few times, and add in some fluff for supply and requisition problems, and suddenly TIE/ln look pretty decent.

I dunno, fielding TIE Fighters relies on having an endless supply of trained, loyal but disposable pilots. I'm not sure that's the right fit for anyone but the Empire.

No, they don't like it because they are largely white guys who feel that something is being taken from them when things get more fair. Nice try though.

How is demanding others make things for you and that they have an obligation to do so, not lazy? Thanks for playing the race card when nobody else did though. Can't be racist against white folk right?

How the hell did a topic about rogue squadron get derailed by gender politics? Rogue squadron always(in books) had female members and they were great supporting characters.

Every time I hear someone whine about this I think of Rumiko Takahashi who, instead of demanding that others make things for her, went out and became the best selling female comic artist in history. To the tune of 170million copies of her works being sold worldwide. Why must something be taken away and given to someone else when it can be ADDED instead?This is why people don't like social justice, it's lazy.

I've been writing fiction with powerful female characters for ten years. I actually have explicitly been rejected on a scifi manuscript because of the gender of the character. I guess I just didn't work hard enough.

...of course we have to take you at your word that your publisher was misogynistic about your story at a time when everyone and their uncle is falling over themselves to pander to women... Nevertheless, good for you, I'm serious, not enough people do things like that and just go "#change!!11!!" and think they're doing something. Do you have a link to your stuff?

Equality of outcome is not equality. Certain demographics will always be represented more in other things, as people have free will to chose their own way, you will never see a 50/50 split in everything.

It wasn't misogynistic it was economic. In young adult fiction there is a very clear pattern of young women consuming books with both male and female leads, but young men not doing so (there is a reason Harry Potter is a boy, and even if it wasn't an economic decision on the part of JK Rowling, it surely was on the part of her agents and publishers). Generally, this isn't a problem in the teen market the way it can be in the children's market, as most publishers assume young women are the only ones who read. It's actually hard to get a book published for boys in the teenage market. The issue though, is that if you do something that is viewed as a topic of interest for boys - say military science fiction, but you do it with a female main character, some people feel that unreasonably reduces the market share the book could potentially earn and thus decline to take the project. This is way more true of the young adult market or the children's market than it is of the adult market, where female main characters are much less of a big deal. Now, the project in question was rejected from a lot of places for a lot of reasons, and probably deservedly. Still, to hear the explicit reasoning involving the gender of the protagonist is a bit galling in the one case, even if it is rooted in an economic decision made by a presumably unbiased individual.

The point of sharing it wasn't to whine. I've long since stopped caring about rejection letters. The tenth one usually cures you of that. The issue is just that I felt the need to point out that social change has to come before creative change in most societies. Books and movies are entertainment, entertainment is an industry which caters to what people want. It is an industry in which quality and value are not measured on a cultural level or on an esoteric level, but rather a dollar level. There is a reason 50 Shades of Gray is a bestseller, but it's not because it's a liberating book for women, or because it's superbly written, or because it has artistic merit and will be studied in literature classes. It's a bestseller because a lot of people thought it was entertaining (whether in an ironic sense or an intentional sense is down to the individual in question). Ditto for Twilight.

The fact that both of those books have incredibly weak female characters who define themselves solely by the men who desire them, and who themselves desire to be subjugated by those men is hugely troubling when you take into account that women were the primary consumers of those stories. It suggests a cultural problem leading to a worldview that finds entertaining a subject matter that is inherently misogynistic. The current Cinderella film is another such example. Until culture shifts away from these views of women, most women themselves are every bit as complicit as men. My worry is that it's not just culture, that it is also biology at play here, that female sexual selection strategies favor behaviors which lead us to subjugate ourselves, but I guess time will tell if that is the case or not.

The comic posted earlier riffs on that topic quite effectively (see second panel): http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-5/page-14-6/

Logic. Heh. Reason. Heh. A troll craves not these things.

Logic. Heh. Reason. Heh. A troll craves not these things.

Man old Yoda was better than prequel Yoda