I'm not trying to say FFG isn't doing a good job or whine about the complexity of the rules here. However, everyone in our group dreads vehicle or space combat including me as GM. It just seems too complex. Going through Jewel of Yavin during the big race scene we pretty much winged the rules so not to slow down the pace of the game constantly looking rules up.

No Star Wars RPG has ever really nailed this area (WEG did a great job with d6 though). Has anyone from the community posted a simplified breakdown of vehicular actions in EotE? I'd love to have something to hand out to everyone and keep behind the screen as a quick guide to keep the pace quick and exciting. I hate doing house rules and try to stay to the tried and true playtested EotE ruleset. Anyway, if anyone has mastered this area of the game I'd be grateful for any advice on how to run these encounters without it becoming a tedious rule hunt.

It looks a lot more complex than it is, and a lot of people make it more complex than it has to be. (without making it more interesting) It's actually very similar to personal combat.

There are a couple of conceptual things to get in your head first:

1) You're always moving - "movement" is relative: An x-wing and a tie fighter could spend an entire battle without using the "move" maneuver. This doesn't mean they're just sitting on hover mode blasting each-other, they're ducking, weaving, circling. It just means neither one of them is interested in changing their relative distance from each other.

2) The action list is your friend: Copy the list of additional actions from the book and hand it out (or use something similar from the resources) this is what gives the players that aren't the pilot and gunner something to do.

Other than that, it's not really difficult - just takes a little practice, like personal combat did.

I use X-wing miniatures for visual reference and tokens for actions like Evasive Maneuvers and gain the advantage.

As an old D6er myself, this thing is like a bicycle, you can't give up because you skinned your knee three times in a row. I had to finally sit down one day during my lunch break and say "I am going to read these rules, assuming nothing, only doing what this book says and nothing else, if it's not written here, it does not exist." After that, everything made perfect sense and the system started looking really good.

So my advice: Clear your head of everything you know, unlearn what you have learned, reread the rules, run a practice encounter or two, come back here if you get to scratching your head, and in a week I bet you'll wonder why you ever thought this system seemed confusing.

I see you've already been poking through the forums on this topic, so you've already been exposed to the usual issues and explanations. I'm sure you'll be fine.

Also both preceding replies are absolutely rock solid, just wanted to say so in case my mere likes weren't' enough.

Remember to keep it narrative. Perhaps one way to practice would be to watch the different space battles in each of the films, particularly the Asteroid Chase in ESB (notice the falcon doesn't shoot, and he still wins), or stuff around the Falcon in RoTJ. Then describe it narratively, don't worry about the dice rolls yet. Just describe what happens. That might get your started.

Quicksilver's point is very important. The ships are ALWAYS moving, even if they don't use the "fly/drive" maneuver. In the same way that a player describes their turn in personal combat for crouching down behind a crate for cover, evasive maneuvers or flying around an asteroid is functionally the same.

So my advice: Clear your head of everything you know, unlearn what you have learned, reread the rules, run a practice encounter or two, come back here if you get to scratching your head, and in a week I bet you'll wonder why you ever thought this system seemed confusing.

Thanks to everyone for the input and encouragement to get familiar with the rules. I've been running Edge of the Empire for about a year now and it is kind of bizarre that my group hasn't mastered it yet. It's because we just don't do it. Like Ghostofman said, I really need to just sit down, give the rules a good analysis, and simulate a few vehicle battles to see where my questions still are.

I already have my first question in mind. When a combat scene commences at what speed should the player's vessel be considered to be at? Is it standard for starships to remain at their maximum speed at all times or is there a "cruising" speed (to steal the term from Star Trek)?

Many thanks.

I already have my first question in mind. When a combat scene commences at what speed should the player's vessel be considered to be at? Is it standard for starships to remain at their maximum speed at all times or is there a "cruising" speed (to steal the term from Star Trek)?

Many thanks.

No real right or wrong answer to that, it all really depends on the encounter. If the players are expecting trouble, they are probably already maxed, if not its OK to have cruising be a little below.

This also gets heavy into specific encounter design too. If the players aren't at top speed, and the bad guys are, what's going to happen? A YT-1300 has the strain to punch it and go from 0-top speed in one go, an a-wing... Not so much..

I was thinking about making a set of custom dice for starship combat as a way to keep track of maneuvers and actions. Players just select their maneuver/action using the dice and place them face up for reference. It might speed things up a bit (less writing for GM)

A large 6 sided manuever dice with:

Accel/Decel

Fly/DRV

Evade

SOT (stay on target)

Punch it

ADF (angle deflector shields).

Another dice for typical actions:

DamCon (damage control)

GTA (gain the advantage)

Fire (combat action)

Copilot

Repair (manual repairs)

Boost (boost shields)

A set of custom cards would also do fine, like a combat deck.

I was thinking about making a set of custom dice for starship combat as a way to keep track of maneuvers and actions. Players just select their maneuver/action using the dice and place them face up for reference. It might speed things up a bit (less writing for GM)

A large 6 sided manuever dice with:

Accel/Decel

Fly/DRV

Evade

SOT (stay on target)

Punch it

ADF (angle deflector shields).

Another dice for typical actions:

DamCon (damage control)

GTA (gain the advantage)

Fire (combat action)

Copilot

Repair (manual repairs)

Boost (boost shields)

A set of custom cards would also do fine, like a combat deck.

I like the idea of the custom cards more than the dice. When/if new actions get created, they can be added to the deck. It's hard to reprint dice with more sides.

Plus, every player could get a deck that would allow them to choose their actions prior to their turn -- speeding up combat significantly.

Yes I like the combat deck idea better too. Let's see if someone designs one.

When we play tested our first group, we all felt that the space combat rules were a bit wonky. Tedious, slow. We are planning a combat only night just to run through the rules and sort stuff out.

The thing that was hard to get my head around was that difficulty to hit was based on speed rather than range , with modifiers based on size. There's a lot more to it -- I probably read through the vehicle combat section once a week and discover something new every time -- but someday I hope to develop the kind of aid you're asking for.

My goal is to be able to run an Aces-only AoR campaign.

The thing that was hard to get my head around was that difficulty to hit was based on speed rather than range , with modifiers based on size. There's a lot more to it -- I probably read through the vehicle combat section once a week and discover something new every time -- but someday I hope to develop the kind of aid you're asking for.

My goal is to be able to run an Aces-only AoR campaign.

Difficulty to-hit is based on Sil not speed, difficulty to perform certain actions is based on speed.

When we play tested our first group, we all felt that the space combat rules were a bit wonky. Tedious, slow. We are planning a combat only night just to run through the rules and sort stuff out.

Totally the way to go. Once you get the hang of it things will speed up dramatically. That's one of the things that surprises people. A good pilot in this system is someone with solid combination of rolls, talents, and personal knowledge. Other systems usually let you get by with just some good rolls.

To compare it to another system, a pilot here is more like a Wizard in D&D, a really good one knows which spells he needs, when to activate them for the best effect, and has the numbers to be able to roll successfully. If you miss any one of those three things your wizard goes from good to mediocre....

OK, I too was like you. Starship/vehicle combat did my head in. Then I had a 30 minute chat with my good friend Ghostofman, and I was set.

Since then, I have developed some aids that may assist you:

STARSHIP ACTION SHEETS

Starship Player Action Sheet v3.1

Starship Advantage and Threat Sheet v1.0

BASE STARSHIP DASHBOARD SHEETS
Starship Player Dashboard (Blank) PDF (Silhouette 0-4)
Starship Player Dashboard (Blank) PDF (Silhouette 5+)

These make it very simple to run Starship Combat.

Movement is what confused me the most, and I would suggest you think about movement in Hexes if that makes it easier. Each Hex is a range increment. Example:

Same hex = Close

1 Hex away = Short

2 Hexes away = Medium

3 Hexes away = Long

4 Hexes away = Extreme

Yes I like the combat deck idea better too. Let's see if someone designs one.

I'll start playing with it... I really dig the idea (and I'm running a vehicle-based campagin - Ugh).

Difficulty to-hit is based on Sil not speed, difficulty to perform certain actions is based on speed.

See? Learn something new every time.

I actually knew that, but I garbled the transmission. Oh well.

Yeah, that's one other thing that a lot of people have a hard time with coming out of other systems. Having several ranks in the Pilot skill only makes you good at moving the craft where you want it to go . (Its the athletics/coordination skill of vehicles). It's not the magic defense skill it was in previous games - you need talents to increase your survivability in a spacecraft.

Anyone can learn to fly well, it takes an Ace to dodge blaster fire.

I use X-wing miniatures for visual reference and tokens for actions like Evasive Maneuvers and gain the advantage.

I was thinking the same.

@ GM Hooly good job on the PDF's

You may also find this topic useful as a side project, and its not that difficult - can even be done using cardboard hexes.

Starship Combat Hexes

Regarding spending advantage/threat and triumph/despair in space combat. I thought that giving setback or boost to another character during space combat was like in personal combat, one can give it to whomever depending on if it was "to the next" character or to "any character" depending on number of advantage/threat spent and that character can spend it on any action they choose. But I was GM in my session last night running my 2nd space combat ever, and another player said that in space combat the player passing on boost has to specify what action the character getting the boost is going to have to use it on either piloting, gunnery, mechanics etc...skill check. Is this correct?

Again, I thought that the player giving the boost determines which character gets the boost die (according to how many advantage is spent) and that the gaining character gets to choose what action to apply it to as long as it is for a piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check (as stated in the "how to spend" tables).

I've done a quick scan of the books and don't see this stipulation.

Regarding spending advantage/threat and triumph/despair in space combat. I thought that giving setback or boost to another character during space combat was like in personal combat, one can give it to whomever depending on if it was "to the next" character or to "any character" depending on number of advantage/threat spent and that character can spend it on any action they choose. But I was GM in my session last night running my 2nd space combat ever, and another player said that in space combat the player passing on boost has to specify what action the character getting the boost is going is going to have to use it on either piloting, gunnery, mechanics etc...skill check. Is this correct?

Again, I thought that the player giving the boost determines which character gets the boost die (according to how many advantage is spent) and that the gaining character gets to choose what action to apply it to as long as it is for a piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check (as stated in the "how to spend" tables).

I've done a quick scan of the books and don't see this stipulation.

Technically the Advantage/Threat table does specify those skills...

Regarding spending advantage/threat and triumph/despair in space combat. I thought that giving setback or boost to another character during space combat was like in personal combat, one can give it to whomever depending on if it was "to the next" character or to "any character" depending on number of advantage/threat spent and that character can spend it on any action they choose. But I was GM in my session last night running my 2nd space combat ever, and another player said that in space combat the player passing on boost has to specify what action the character getting the boost is going is going to have to use it on either piloting, gunnery, mechanics etc...skill check. Is this correct?

Again, I thought that the player giving the boost determines which character gets the boost die (according to how many advantage is spent) and that the gaining character gets to choose what action to apply it to as long as it is for a piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check (as stated in the "how to spend" tables).

I've done a quick scan of the books and don't see this stipulation.

Technically the Advantage/Threat table does specify those skills...

Yes, I realize that, but my question is does the player spending the advantage have to specifically say "character X, the boost I give you has to be spent on gunnery". As opposed to saying "character X i give you a boost to your next piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check -whichever one you decide to use on your next action". The way we played it last night, was the first method above.

Regarding spending advantage/threat and triumph/despair in space combat. I thought that giving setback or boost to another character during space combat was like in personal combat, one can give it to whomever depending on if it was "to the next" character or to "any character" depending on number of advantage/threat spent and that character can spend it on any action they choose. But I was GM in my session last night running my 2nd space combat ever, and another player said that in space combat the player passing on boost has to specify what action the character getting the boost is going to have to use it on either piloting, gunnery, mechanics etc...skill check. Is this correct?

Again, I thought that the player giving the boost determines which character gets the boost die (according to how many advantage is spent) and that the gaining character gets to choose what action to apply it to as long as it is for a piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check (as stated in the "how to spend" tables).

I've done a quick scan of the books and don't see this stipulation.

Chart 7-6 stipulates that, but the write up also states its to be used as a guideline, so that GMs and PCs can agree on anything they want to. The table isn't a set of commandments, it's a list of suggestions to spur creative thinking.

Regarding spending advantage/threat and triumph/despair in space combat. I thought that giving setback or boost to another character during space combat was like in personal combat, one can give it to whomever depending on if it was "to the next" character or to "any character" depending on number of advantage/threat spent and that character can spend it on any action they choose. But I was GM in my session last night running my 2nd space combat ever, and another player said that in space combat the player passing on boost has to specify what action the character getting the boost is going to have to use it on either piloting, gunnery, mechanics etc...skill check. Is this correct?

Again, I thought that the player giving the boost determines which character gets the boost die (according to how many advantage is spent) and that the gaining character gets to choose what action to apply it to as long as it is for a piloting, gunnery, mechanics, or computers check (as stated in the "how to spend" tables).

I've done a quick scan of the books and don't see this stipulation.

Chart 7-6 stipulates that, but the write up also states its to be used as a guideline, so that GMs and PCs can agree on anything they want to. The table isn't a set of commandments, it's a list of suggestions to spur creative thinking.

As in above reply, my question is who determines which of the actions listed (piloting, gunnery, mechanics, computers) the boost is applied to- the player spending the advantage to give boost to another character, or the character getting the boost.