A b-wing is touching a Large ship that has been ioned. The large ship moves and cannot move due to overlapping the B-wing, now the b-wing k2 turns and ends up behind the the Large ship. Can it target the large ship, even though it was touching at the start of the phase?

Thanks,

Theoretically possible, but only if:

1. Nubs were not involved in the collision, on either side.
2. The large-ship is not at an angle from the B-Wing.

Ok. So it was good then. The B-wing was slightly to the left, but directly facing the Large ship, and nubs didn't over lap. Then he K-turned. Good to know.

Thanks,

How is it that the large ship's 1-Straight doesn't clear the small B-Wing yet the B-Wing's 2-k still clears the large base? Here I've thought small bases are speed 1 long (without nubs) and large bases are speed 2. I'm thinking something is off a little bit otherwise that situation probably shouldn't happen.

The big base is speed two wide, if you are touching it head on, you don't clear with a 2k.

no, it doesn't (shouldn't) work. The big base is slightly bigger (have a look at the base itself, it is beveled, and the template is the same size as the top of the base) than the 2 straight template, the same is true of the small base.

Alot of people assume because it is a matter of around 1mm, but if you try and do it accurately, you'll always bump.

This has come up before as well. If you compare the templates to the appropriate ships, the templates should be smaller by 1-2mm. Absolutely head-on, they're not going to clear each other because the nubs are going to increase the base length also. The only way for this to work as the OP described, was if there was an angle involved, but if the B-wing still ended touching, then it's not allowed to fire at the ship it's touching.

So was it "touching" as the result of an overlap, or was it "adjacent", which is not from an overlap?

If a ship fully executes it's manuver then it can not be "touching" another ship for the purposes of the game rules. They are just adjacent. No overlap from the ship that moved last in the traffic jam, then the ships are not touching.

Also, it doesn't matter if the ships are touching *before* the maneuver. If you fly into me, but I later move away, we can target each other.

no, it doesn't (shouldn't) work. The big base is slightly bigger (have a look at the base itself, it is beveled, and the template is the same size as the top of the base) than the 2 straight template, the same is true of the small base.

Alot of people assume because it is a matter of around 1mm, but if you try and do it accurately, you'll always bump.

It is supposed to be the same length.

However, plastic tends to expand after injection-molding, and the amount of this depends entirely on the person operating the machine.

Check your large bases against each other. They're not going to be identical.

My answer is that it's theoretically possible, but on the table using real components it's very unlikely that you'll be able to execute the maneuver without overlap. Accordingly, it's not a maneuver I would ever plan for a B-wing that's touching and parallel to a Large ship.

no, it doesn't (shouldn't) work. The big base is slightly bigger (have a look at the base itself, it is beveled, and the template is the same size as the top of the base) than the 2 straight template, the same is true of the small base.

Alot of people assume because it is a matter of around 1mm, but if you try and do it accurately, you'll always bump.

It is supposed to be the same length.

However, plastic tends to expand after injection-molding, and the amount of this depends entirely on the person operating the machine.

Check your large bases against each other. They're not going to be identical.

It doesn't matter if the base is exactly the same length as a speed two. You have nubs on the base on both ends of the template, it won't even be close unless you are at an angle hopping the corner.

I don't believe nubs were ever in question. The situation was two ships offset enough that the "straight ahead" on both of them would have the template completely miss the other ship.

To me either the 1 straight for the large ship should have cleared the small ship OR the 2K should NOT have cleared the large ship which would put that small ship right back where it started. To me the OP's situation should not exist although if it does happen then that B-Wing would get to shoot as would the large ship it just jumped.

The only reason the OP's situation occurs is because of variations/errors in the physical pieces used in the game. Is that speed 2 template just a bit more than twice as long as the speed 1 template? Is that small base unusually 'fat' while the large base is smaller than it should be? Now these things can happen but should the variation be used to allow the impossible to happen?

It doesn't matter if the base is exactly the same length as a speed two. You have nubs on the base on both ends of the template, it won't even be close unless you are at an angle hopping the corner.

This is what DraconPyrothayan meant when he said :

Theoretically possible, but only if:

1. Nubs were not involved in the collision, on either side.
2. The large-ship is not at an angle from the B-Wing.

It doesn't matter if the base is exactly the same length as a speed two. You have nubs on the base on both ends of the template, it won't even be close unless you are at an angle hopping the corner.

This is what DraconPyrothayan meant when he said :

Theoretically possible, but only if:

1. Nubs were not involved in the collision, on either side.
2. The large-ship is not at an angle from the B-Wing.

Thanks for this. I was wondering how you'd do it without the nubs being involved. Hadn't thought of this because there's such a slim chance of this happening.

Yet in the example pictured above, the large ship would have cleared the 1 forward... though when on the table, it clearly will not clear the 1 forward due to the base being slightly larger than the template. Even in that example, on the table, the B wing would not clear the 2k because the template is slightly smaller.

It is supposed to be the same length.

However, plastic tends to expand after injection-molding, and the amount of this depends entirely on the person operating the machine.

Check your large bases against each other. They're not going to be identical.

I do not believe it was ever the intention. While there might be slight variation of the size of components, the 1 and 2 maneuver templates has always been the same size as the top of a base, not the bottom.

It is supposed to be the same length.

However, plastic tends to expand after injection-molding, and the amount of this depends entirely on the person operating the machine.

Check your large bases against each other. They're not going to be identical.

I do not believe it was ever the intention. While there might be slight variation of the size of components, the 1 and 2 maneuver templates has always been the same size as the top of a base, not the bottom.

I believe there was a comment from one of the original developers at some point that it was specifically designed such that the templates were slightly undersized as they found issues when they were the same size. I want to say they were game play issues, but I can also see variability issues in the manufacturing side of things. It's just much easier to make them 2mm +/- 1mm shorter than the base. Then you know that everyone's template will not clear.

Ok, I was also having trouble seeing how nubs woulda not be involved, I see it now. That makes a bit more sense for sure.

It doesn't matter if the base is exactly the same length as a speed two. You have nubs on the base on both ends of the template, it won't even be close unless you are at an angle hopping the corner.

This is what DraconPyrothayan meant when he said :

Theoretically possible, but only if:

1. Nubs were not involved in the collision, on either side.
2. The large-ship is not at an angle from the B-Wing.

I know this is to counter the 'nub' discussion and illustrates it perfectly.

Now if it could show how the Aggressor failed to clear the B-Wing with a 1-straight while the B-Wing has the space to perform the K-turn. I could see it if the B-Wing is at a slight angle outward leaving the Aggressor overlapping when it tries to move but allowing the B-Wing to move over far enough to get beside the big ship and complete the K-turn.

I know this is to counter the 'nub' discussion and illustrates it perfectly.

Now if it could show how the Aggressor failed to clear the B-Wing with a 1-straight while the B-Wing has the space to perform the K-turn. I could see it if the B-Wing is at a slight angle outward leaving the Aggressor overlapping when it tries to move but allowing the B-Wing to move over far enough to get beside the big ship and complete the K-turn.

Well, the OP never actually stated that the large ship performed a 1 straight. Edit: He did actually. He mentioned the large ship was ioned.

A 1 bank, 1 turn or 2 turn (maybe even a 2 bank?) left would have the large ship overlap the small ship and not move.

Did he not say it was Ioned? if it didn't start adjacent & only moved forwards a couple of mm though that would explain why it didn't clear

Did he not say it was Ioned? if it didn't start adjacent & only moved forwards a couple of mm though that would explain why it didn't clear

Yes, yes he did actually. I read too fast looking for "1 straight" and totally skipped over the ioned bit.

all good, I only saw it the second time of reading, hence the "did he not" in my post, I wasn't 100% sure if I'd imagined it or not!

Did he not say it was Ioned? if it didn't start adjacent & only moved forwards a couple of mm though that would explain why it didn't clear

He did say Ionized which is a 1-straight although I guess I could see how that could be missed of looking for one thing but not recognizing the one result as a subset of the other.

While having the large ship run into the B-Wing could produce that setup the OP also mentions the ships touching at the start of the phase. To me that STRONGLY implies they had overlapped last turn and were touching when things started here.