How to you time when you spend advantage?

It came up tonight, that I realised that I was telling my players the damage they had dealt killed their target, BEFORE they choose how to spend their advantage.

Would it be fair to ask them HOW they are spending it, BEFORE they know the results of the damage?

So they may spend it (unnecessarily) on a Critical Hit, BEFORE they know if they need to?

Would that be considered meta gaming? It would that be considered fair?

If they KNOW their Damage will kill the target, it means they can spend their Advantage on something else without worry... if they dont know if the usual damage will kill, they may choose to use Advantage on a critical hit, that may not be required.

How do you deal with this situation?

Cheers!

RD

Yeah, I'd call that metagaming and not fair. I always give the players the benefit of the doubt for things like that, in fact I help them maximize their results...I'm pretty sure it will backfire on you if you don't.

Besides, it's not exactly cinematic to have spent your advantage doing precisely nothing.

Yup I let them know so thry can better decide how to spend the advantage.

I don't see the issue, the couple of times I've GM'ed I'd tell players if they did enough damage to kill something outright that way they don't worry about having to decide between a critical or something else

For the official rules. pg. 204-205 of EotE core covers the steps in combat:

You count up damage and assign it to the target(s). Then Advantages and Triumphs. Then Threat and Despairs. Then actually deal everything out.

Thing with this though, is that not only can you be wasting criticals on stuff you might kill anyways, but you can also be wasting criticals since you're technically activating them before you're trying to see if you get that minimum 1 point of damage in. Personally though, I just apply the damage so they can see if the target is actually hit or killed first to avoid the potential wasting, because if I really wanted to give them rough times, I'd just have there be more skilled enemies.

I always tell if a player drops before they spend advantage. It doesn't hurt my game any and players don't feel like they've wasted resources.

Well that seems fairly unanimous!

I do things a little differently...usually, I ask them what they want do with the Advantage. If they opt for the Critical Injury/Hit, I will then inform them whether it would be wasted and make another suggestion.* To my mind, it speeds up gameplay a bit.

But yeah, to obscure the results until the players have "committed" their Advantage seems too gamist, and not really in keeping with the spirit of this game. I am with the others here; I wouldn't worry about it. Seems like you are playing it pretty much the same way I'd do it.

*I reserve the right to change my mind or my practices without prior notice

If they know they need not crit, they will be forced to think creatively.

Yeah, same boat here. If the crit doesn't do anything, it's not really an advantage is it?

Would that be considered meta gaming?

You wield the term like an insult, for shame...

Moreso than its competitors, this game is a collaborative process -- the table should be metagamming most every roll for maximum awesomeness.

Would that be considered meta gaming?

You wield the term like an insult, for shame...

Moreso than its competitors, this game is a collaborative process -- the table should be metagamming most every roll for maximum awesomeness.

At least for cooperative narrative games.

The point is to tell a great story with lots of cool stuff, excitement, and fun for every one. You and your players should be meta-gaming to ensure that occurs. If they are simply trying to nit-pick rules, and meta-game in a negative way ... well they simply aren't grasping the nature of the system.

Now if it was Hackmaster, I would be giving you an ENTIRELY different answer.

How to you time when you spend advantage?

It came up tonight, that I realised that I was telling my players the damage they had dealt killed their target, BEFORE they choose how to spend their advantage.

Would it be fair to ask them HOW they are spending it, BEFORE they know the results of the damage?

So they may spend it (unnecessarily) on a Critical Hit, BEFORE they know if they need to?

For the official rules. pg. 204-205 of EotE core covers the steps in combat:

You count up damage and assign it to the target(s). Then Advantages and Triumphs. Then Threat and Despairs. Then actually deal everything out.

As Lathrop pointed out, you spend advantage before results are stated. This seems logical since it would represent what the character is trying to do with the action before knowing the results. However, my group seems to be like everyone else here. The GM announces if the character drops before we spend advantages.

Personally, I'm fine with playing with the RAW. It's a more simulation view and since my background is as a miniatures gamer, I enjoy a more simulation view point in my gaming. However, as a narrative game, I think it's fine for decide advantages after damage outcome.

I wouldn't call it metagaming, I'd call it something closer to action (advantage) economy. The more information the player has the more fine tuned their choices are. Is that good or bad? Really, the answer to that question lies with your table. Do whichever your group feels is the most fun.

BTW: As it might feel like a bummer for a crit to be "wasted", do remember that a character is not necessarily dead when they go unconscious. Piling on crits when someone goes down just helps the rolls to hit the 151 crit result of dead. It can also give interesting results, such as cutting off a limb, on a reoccurring character.

I would just say play it the way your table likes best. I usually tell them a foe is down, then let them spend advantage.