Simple question. In the Dark Heresy games you play, what deaths are so bad that burning a fate point isn't enough to survive it ?

PCs attacking their inquisitor is likely to be one thing, but what others ?

If the deaths are by their own "choice"

Such as sacrificing themselves for the group.
However in such a cas I might spend one of their fatepoints and have them show up later

Suicide Runs.
Stapping yourself full with Melta Charges and running at the Slaught Overlord in Dust and Shadow is a sure way to stay dead.

Santiago said:

Why would you prevent a character from burning a fate point to save their bacon in either of those two situations? The end results just seems like it would be too damned amusing to pass up. So the acolyte straps the charges to themselves and runs at the Slought and detonates them as soon as he's in range. Now, if he burns a fate point to survive the blast, the easiest way for him to survive is for the detonator to miraculously fail and the bombs to simply not go off. Now, how much would you pay to see a player burn a fate point just so his or her character can end up standing surprised in front of a slought overseer with their plan to destroy said walking worm undone by their need to live? Priceless... especially if that was their last fate point. :-)

In my game, there is no situation that can't be survived or undone with the burning of a fate point, none.

Deaths that involve breathtaking stupidity on the victim's part.

Graver said:

It also depends on your players I think.
If my players would actively seek out death by sacrificing themselves for the group by going suicidebomber on the enemy they know they will most likely not be allowed to spend a fate point.
It would also defeat the point and kill of the drama of the scene when a pc knowingly sacrifices him or herself and the bomb wouldn't go off, I think my pc's would actually be angry with me.
My players want grand drmatic stories where their pc's, if they chose to risk death, go out in a memorable way.

Running up to the Slaught, pushing the button and then have the bomb fail, sucks...then the Slaught kills him...kinda an anticlimax...

Santiago said:

Well, then, they shouldn't burn the fate point in the first place ;-) It is there choice after all.

Edit: in other words, if they're looking to sacrifice their character for the good of the team, world, Imperium, etc, but then burn a fate point to survive it, they weren't looking to sacrifice their character after all... they were looking for a way to kill the threat and live at the same time. They are wanting the drama of the sacrifice but also to keep their character as well and, well, in that situation, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That is to say, I'm right on your page, but instead of disallowing the point to be burned, I'd say the point can be burned, but it would most likely destroy the sacrifice just like they had never burned it in the first place and never sacrificed themselves either but they'd be one fp lighter for the trouble of having nothing happen. ;=)

Burning a Fate Point is solely the choice of the player. If they want their character to die a memorable death and if a a certain sacrifice would be that memorable death, why the heck would they burn a fate point then to negate it?

One of the overarching themes of 40k is the concept of sacrifice. Someone who tries to sacrifice themselves with the intention of using an arbitrary game mechanic to avoid the consequences certainly shouldnt be able to 'have their cake and eat it'. Whilst Fate sure does make a tasty cake, thats not what the spirit of 40k is about. Its about grim and inevitable death; and by the manner of their deaths shall they be known.

Leave cheating death to other sci-fi, like Star Trek.

Idd,

I do not allow abusing the game mechanics to kill of a foe, I am willing to break some game rules to create a great dramatic scene of memorable death.

If such a moment presents itself in which I would not allow the expenditure of a Fate Point I warn my pc's ahead of time.

BTW: Spending a Fate Point means you survive the encounter, it does not mean your automatically safe, you pass out, end of scene.
You can still: Wake up in a cell, you can be taken hostage, etc.

Heck in my campaign burning a fate point still can mean loss of limb. I agree that a PC that sacrifices him/herself for the sake of the mission can't just burn a fate point. Of course if I think it makes good story telling I may burn it for him/her. Of course many of my players would argue against cheapening their character's death.

I usually rule:

You are knocked out, lower the critical to something survivable and ignore any bleeding or other round based chance of dying.

Earlier my players encountered a ticking Thermo-Nuclear bomb. Our Psyker declared he wanted to disarm it and keep it. Very Hard Tech use test with no modifiers. If he detonated it, there is no way he could've FPed it. But he managed it. He now has a Thermo Nuclear bomb.

I havent had to make a ruling just yet but my old standby of " was the players intention to be a hero or get a invulnerable save?" That of course depends on the characters history and the story up to that point. I tend to lean towards always surviving with the burning of a fate point though.

Graver said:

Yeah, that's like those soldiers in real life who throw themselves on grenades to save their unit and then have the bad luck to survive! Totally kills the drama of it! I mean, in Dark Heresy just like in real life you can't just do something that has the drama of sacrificing yourself for the group and then just survive! It just doesn't work that way!

I mean, just look at the case of Lance Corporal Croucher. He could have been a hero, what with throwing himself on a grenade to save his team. But no, that stupid git just has to survive. How can it be a heroic sacrifice, if he sacrificed nothing? What a waste of a chance for a memorable death. Next time, if he wants his deed to mean anything, he sould make sure he dies.

warning, this post might contain minor traces of sarcasm.

And I admit, maybe not the best way to introduce oneself to a board one could wish for.

No deaths are too bad to survive by burning fate points in my games. If my players wanted to attack their Inquisitor, then by all means they are allowed to try with the full extent of the rules.

Would be a bit suicidal though, because while you might "survive" being pounded to an unrecognizeable mess by your masters trusty power-fist, there's no rule saying that you survive and are conscious enough to flee or try to attack your master once more. And since the Inquisitor to the acolytes in my campaign is an ex-techpriest with over 50 insanity points, he would delight in the prospect of "improving" insolent acolytes (providing they survive his angry counter-assault by burning fate points that is) with some Frankensteinesque experiments. Like giving them a frontal lobotomy, replacing the "insolent parts" of their mind with cogitators and logic engines etc.

After all, an acolyte isn't a person that is given a choice to serve. They are their masters property, and you don't just toss property out with the garbage, because it "malfunctions" once in a while. You correct the malfunction.

One way or another, the chosen subjects of this Inquisitor will serve and obey orders, even if he has to drag their heretical and sorry asses, kicking and screaming to the medicae facilities and remove even more of their individual will and personality. The only choice they have in the matter is wether they will end up as servants in the form of mind-wiped servitors, or if they want to keep their own identity and mind relatively intact.

(of course, an Inquisitor can't be everywhere all at once, so as a GM I leave plenty of room for my players to cause general mischief and get the opportunity to do things their master might not like). An Inquisitor is powerful, but I don't believe that giving the Inquisitor the same godlike powers a GM has will make an interesting game.

If a PC was going to be attacking their Inquisitor in my game, they'd only get to burn a Fate Point if they also re-did their character sheet so the character is Mind-Cleansed, with memory implants so they are a different career with different stats.

Of course, the rest of the party is forbidden to reveal (in-game) that they knew the PC before this.

Only deaths were its inconceivable that the character survived. For example, the character dies and another character shoots him twice in the chest and once in the head with a bolt pistol to be sure or something of that nature or suicide melta charge run without a way or surviving it and the charges go off. If there's anyway the character could have survived at If the character's location gets shelled, he miraculously survives. If the facility is in gets lanced from orbit, he finds some shelter. If he gets shot up by Chaos Space Marines, he is maimed but lived, etcetera etcetera. As long as there is weasel room for survival to wiggle in, I'll allow it. But certain death is certain death.

Cynical Cat said:

You'd think that normally. But when reading about the Cybernettic resurrection elite advance they even go so far to describe that the Magos doing the resurrection at some times only need a few living cells of the person in order to resurrect him/her (implying that cloning is involved).

So if a melta charge leave a few stains of bio matter after the unfortunate victim, her or she COULD "survive", right?

Varnias Tybalt said:

Well, enough of the brain (or the cyberware replacing destroyed/removed brain matter) has to survive so we're talking about same person. So, depending on the size of the melta charge and the distance involved, yes.

Cynical Cat said:

Im thinking of that scene in Luc Bessons "The Fifth Element", where they have recovered a "hand" and place it in a resurrection chamber, and these tiny arms and tools starts to assemble a new, human body out of it. Leave it to bake under a radiation shield, and voila! Out comes a naked Milla Jovovich with orange hair! Praise the Omnissiah, Praise the Omnissiah indeed!

Varnias Tybalt said:

Praise the Omnissiah for his bountiful works, and his good taste in women!

MILLANDSON said:

Indeed.

I wonder if the Adeptus Mechanicus could build a Monica Bellucci baking machine as well?

But now im not acting my age again. Twenty year olds like me are expected to be interested in stick figures like Megan Fox and Lindsay Lohan...

Varnias Tybalt said:

I'll be watching Brotherhood of the Wolf. For the fight scenes, you understand. Certainly not for any scenes involving any papal agents. Not at all. *whistles*

We had an instant where our psyker roll a 99 on Perils of The Warp and got possessed by a once-bound daemon. It started to get real ugly as he started to sprout wings, the air around him became infested with flies and other vermin and everyone could hear the cries of the damned echoing in their heads.

Our cleric was the first to realized what was going on and turned around and unloaded point blank, full-auto with his autogun with manstoppers and he rolled an 01 to hit. Almost every bullet hit and he rolled 3 Righteouss Furies on damage, dealing a ridiculous amount of damage. I said "****.... you actually killed him. The Emperor DOES protect!"

At this point, the psyker asked if he could burn a fate point to survive the ordeal. I thought about it and said sure. So he did. 2 rounds later, our guardsman walked over with his flamer and unloaded his whole clip on him, toasting him to a crisp. He looked at me and wondered if maybe another Fate Point could be spend to survive that. At that point I had to say sorry, ain't happening. You are beyond the help of Fate.

Sometimes death is unavoidable.

Jlid said:

Daemonic possession also happened during a scenario I ran (and at an extremely inappropriate moment). My solution? I let the player burn a fate point to aviod being possessed.

I figured that since daemonic possession effectively spells the death of the PC (and most of the time: all the other PC's in the vicinity as well), it would be justified to be able to burn fate points and by that avoiding getting possessed. After all, it's whate fate points are for.

That might sound mighty nice of me letting him do that, but once a fate point is burned, it is burned forever. Im not generous at all in forking out fate points despite great roleplaying or mighty feats preformed during the game...

I try to keep it real.. so if they do something REALLY STUPID despite REPEATED WARNINGS.... let em burn..