meh. Double Aggressors are far more frightening, imo.

But variety is nice. Unless you're advocating for a copy-paste meta again?

For my part, I never really liked 2 ship builds. I might try it for the fun of it but I don't see me bringing it to a tournament. I'm sure we'll see it appear here and there in tournaments and it will perform well.

Variety is absolutely key, but I never said anything about wanting them to show up in droves. All I've said is that they're more frightening than double firespray. I don't control that fact, FFG does

It's out of my hands that people will most likely flock to them. But, on the other hand, they're not the easy wins that turrets are. They have an incredibly high skill requirement to use effectively. Problem is we have plenty of skilled players in my local area

Now I personally didn't even buy a single box even just for the upgrades. Xizor all the way, baby

Your comment just reminded me of some other players that when ask if ship X(like the Defender) is viable respond that Y(like the Phantom) is better. It implies that you should not even bother with it and just run what everybody else is running.

Maybe you just never ran into a good dual Firespray build yet. Don't dismiss it just because another build frighten you more. The Aggressor is the new ship here and come with a title that encourage running two of them, of course you'll see more of them at first. Everyone wants to try their new toys. But I do believe that a dual Firsepray build can be as frightening and maybe even moreso than a dual Aggressor build.

meh. Double Aggressors are far more frightening, imo.

But variety is nice. Unless you're advocating for a copy-paste meta again?

For my part, I never really liked 2 ship builds. I might try it for the fun of it but I don't see me bringing it to a tournament. I'm sure we'll see it appear here and there in tournaments and it will perform well.

Variety is absolutely key, but I never said anything about wanting them to show up in droves. All I've said is that they're more frightening than double firespray. I don't control that fact, FFG does

It's out of my hands that people will most likely flock to them. But, on the other hand, they're not the easy wins that turrets are. They have an incredibly high skill requirement to use effectively. Problem is we have plenty of skilled players in my local area

Now I personally didn't even buy a single box even just for the upgrades. Xizor all the way, baby

Your comment just reminded me of some other players that when ask if ship X(like the Defender) is viable respond that Y(like the Phantom) is better. It implies that you should not even bother with it and just run what everybody else is running.

Maybe you just never ran into a good dual Firespray build yet. Don't dismiss it just because another build frighten you more. The Aggressor is the new ship here and come with a title that encourage running two of them, of course you'll see more of them at first. Everyone wants to try their new toys. But I do believe that a dual Firsepray build can be as frightening and maybe even moreso than a dual Aggressor build.

Fair's fair, my comment was a bit too general

all my post was meant to do is respond to the thread's title in this manner:

Aggressor + Aggressor is far more frightening than Firespray + Firespray. It is a very specific comparison between these two-ship builds. The firespray is one of my all time favorite ships, but I don't see it being an effective 2-ship build. I've loved them as escorts in my imperial lists (two of them + soontir fell make for a brutal list ) and I think they'll make beautiful one-of ships in scum, but I don't think they have the price --> power required to be run in pairs. Imo, Aggressors certainly do.

Now, if I believed that 2 Aggressors was all that was worth running, why on God's green earth would I run Xizor ?

Dual Firespray got me my Store Championship this weekend. I'd been running Bounty Hunter, Bounty Hunter, Carnor Jax, and was planning on running that at the SC...but then I got my Most Wanted just before the tournament, and figured "Ah, why not run Scum?"

Boba, Kath, and a pile of upgrade cards turned out to be really nasty and effective.

The problem is that you can't fit in a third ship as easily with Firesprays due to having to spend 8 points on Engine Upgrades.

Why do you have to spend 8 points on Engine Upgrades?

Because if you're moving at PS7-10 then being able to arc dodge is pretty important, especially since you have a rear arc to shoot with. It also means you can turn 135 degrees in one go without stress.

The rear arc makes the 135-degree turn less valuable than on literally any other ship, and arc-dodging with a Large ship is much more difficult and less reliable than on a small ship.

I like to run Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade on Boba Fett (in either faction) as a Phantom hunter, because the ability to reposition at PS10+ is basically a requirement to get PS9 Whisper into your firing arc, but other than that I feel like Engine Upgrade is nice if you can afford it but by no means required.

I have the following list I really want to try out.

Kath Scarlet (55)

Expose, Heavy Laser Cannon, K4 Security Droid, Experimental Interface

Mandalorian Mercenary (44)

“Mangler” Cannon, Recon Specialist, Bodyguard

That looks pretty good, except for Expose, Experimental Interface, and the cannons.

I have the following list I really want to try out.

Kath Scarlet (55)

Expose, Heavy Laser Cannon, K4 Security Droid, Experimental Interface

Mandalorian Mercenary (44)

“Mangler” Cannon, Recon Specialist, Bodyguard

That looks pretty good, except for Expose, Experimental Interface, and the cannons.

lol.

I ran Kath and emon at the Omaha SC last Saturday. I went 3-2, but very easily could have been 0-5 or 4-1, because I had 4 very close games. Dual firesprays are back, and I don't necessarily think they need a third ship in the scum faction to be competitive. I'mhaving a blast with bomb shenanigans. *rim shot* Emon is just fun to run.

I have the following list I really want to try out.

Kath Scarlet (55)

Expose, Heavy Laser Cannon, K4 Security Droid, Experimental Interface

Mandalorian Mercenary (44)

“Mangler” Cannon, Recon Specialist, Bodyguard

That looks pretty good, except for Expose, Experimental Interface, and the cannons.

lol.

Rekt.

The problem is that you can't fit in a third ship as easily with Firesprays due to having to spend 8 points on Engine Upgrades.

Why do you have to spend 8 points on Engine Upgrades?

Because if you're moving at PS7-10 then being able to arc dodge is pretty important, especially since you have a rear arc to shoot with. It also means you can turn 135 degrees in one go without stress.

The rear arc makes the 135-degree turn less valuable than on literally any other ship, and arc-dodging with a Large ship is much more difficult and less reliable than on a small ship.

Interesting, I'd thought the opposite about how valuable EU is on them, since either your move+boost has the potential to cover a big area and, more importantly, prevents your blind spot from being exploited. EH can work, too, but it doesn't allow correction to cover the blind spots as well.

I just started flying them and have been doing well with them, but when I've flown without Engine that's been the case, and I've definitely been able to exploit even higher PS firesprays blindspots fairly easily.

I've found arc dodging to be significantly easier with large ships assuming you set up the rocks and deployed correctly, simply due to the sheer distance covered by your base. Expert Handling combined with Engine Upgrade makes for an exceptionally agile ship that can dodge a lot of what would otherwise be thrown at it.

The ability to turn far helps grant you 360 fire arcs, with your choice of lateral or forward movement. It gives you far more options, and lets you get out of corners much faster than you otherwise would, or let you dodge rocks that you'd otherwise have to spend two movement phases going around. It offers flexibility and control.

I'll spend the 4pts on EU for a large based ship pretty much before anything else, be it crew, guns or others. If you can't position yourself in the best possible place every turn consistently, the rest of your toys don't matter.

I do like EU on the scum sprays. Angling both arcs is a pretty great advantage, and not having a post-maneuver movement on a big ship is a pretty big detriment. On Bounty Hunters, it matters less because they're 33 points of awesome. On characters, I'd spring for the boost (and the Security Droid to secure an offensive action)

I have the following list I really want to try out.

Kath Scarlet (55)

Expose, Heavy Laser Cannon, K4 Security Droid, Experimental Interface

Mandalorian Mercenary (44)

“Mangler” Cannon, Recon Specialist, Bodyguard

Expose is primary only, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend extra points to rebuff the exposed ship after reducing its agility. You're just making it cost more than it does.

I have the following list I really want to try out.

Kath Scarlet (55)

Expose, Heavy Laser Cannon, K4 Security Droid, Experimental Interface

Mandalorian Mercenary (44)

“Mangler” Cannon, Recon Specialist, Bodyguard

Expose is primary only, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend extra points to rebuff the exposed ship after reducing its agility. You're just making it cost more than it does.

to be fair, it sort of makes sense because the Droid covers the lack of taking an actually good action

It's probably still an incredibly inefficient ept, though

agreed about bodyguard, and adding that bodyguard suuuuucccckkkkkkkkssssssssss

Myself, I wouldn't run JUST 2 x Firespray. I'd probably run Firespray + IG88 though, as there are some neat options there, and the ships cover up some of each other's weaknesses. I would probably run something like THIS though...

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/208269/boba-mandal-bss

Or multiple random combinations of each. I bet a Mandelorian + Stay On Target + Outlaw Tech isn't horrid, and let's me put in a Binarye + Deadman's Switch...

I ran Kath and emon at the Omaha SC last Saturday. I went 3-2, but very easily could have been 0-5 or 4-1, because I had 4 very close games. Dual firesprays are back, and I don't necessarily think they need a third ship in the scum faction to be competitive. I'mhaving a blast with bomb shenanigans. *rim shot* Emon is just fun to run.

The sheer number and flexibility of bombs he carries, plus the fact he has a slot aboard for an intelligence agent, makes him **** scary.

I find myself wanting to come up with an Andrasta/Slave 1 squad list, with Emon Azzamen and Boba Fett, just to use the two titles.

Flew duel Firesprays against duel aggressors last night and it was very one sided in favour of bobba and Kath, bobba lost his shields but took no hull damage Kath never got touched.

That rear arc made all the difference.

I realized that Expose is only primary after I posted. Plan is now scrubbed. New list being thought out.

I ran Kath and emon at the Omaha SC last Saturday. I went 3-2, but very easily could have been 0-5 or 4-1, because I had 4 very close games. Dual firesprays are back, and I don't necessarily think they need a third ship in the scum faction to be competitive. I'mhaving a blast with bomb shenanigans. *rim shot* Emon is just fun to run.

Additional Damage is alive and well!

I realized that Expose is only primary after I posted. Plan is now scrubbed. New list being thought out.

I was a bit too flippant for my earlier post to be helpful, but I'm glad you've pulled that list. Every time I think I've found a use for Expose (other than Decimator + Experimental Interface), I come back around to the realization that no, really: it's a bad upgrade on its own, and you can build around its weaknesses but then you've spent something like 12-15 points to add a single attack die.

Kath + Mandalorian Mercenary has a lot of potential, I think. Just don't try to add Expose!

I realized that Expose is only primary after I posted. Plan is now scrubbed. New list being thought out.

Opportunist goes well with K4 if you can throw in a way to guarantee a stripped token, and doesn't take your standard action. I'd recommend an earlier, powerful attack, or Palob Godahli.

I tried out k4 when i ran my list it was really useful i found.

Additional Damage is alive and well!

Kath + Mandalorian Mercenary has a lot of potential, I think. Just don't try to add Expose!

Kath with hlc, greedo, determination, engine, inertial dampeners

Emon with Andrasta, prox X3, K4

People want to stay in Kaths front arc anyway. This will make them pay for it. Determination mitigates at least some of greedos downside. And emon just slings bombs at people while the K4 helps with modifications.

Kath with hlc, greedo, determination, engine, inertial dampeners

Emon with Andrasta, prox X3, K4

People want to stay in Kaths front arc anyway. This will make them pay for it. Determination mitigates at least some of greedos downside. And emon just slings bombs at people while the K4 helps with modifications.

Greedo + Determination is actually a pretty ugly combo for your opponent to deal with. The only real downside is that you can't further combine it with something like Isard to ward off damage. Serissu or something with Bodyguard could help, but that's hard to afford in a list with two Firesprays, and I like that version of Emon too well to kick it out like that.