Ok recently this came up and i thought it woud work the other way, but according to the rules i may be wrong.

If you play a card with an additional cost, in this case lets say The Anti K, and you fail the CC, do you still pay the cost?

If you are going 2nd, your opponent plays their first card at 3 difficulty, checks a 3, then you R with action side of the anti K, and flip a 2....do you still put a card from your hand into your card pool face down?

Another example could be playing KFT as an action R and failing the CC, do you still commit 2 foundations?

I always thought additional costs were paid AFTER the cc was passed, but was told that it is simultaneously and independent to pay the costs regardless of wether or not you pass CC.

Thanks

i cant back it up at all since i havent fully explored the new rules, but thats the way ive played it/seen it played since i was corrected at a regional by some of the games top players.

something along the lines of: an action card is just an ability with its own card, playing the action is playing the ability, similar to if there was a foundation that said "(5+) F Commit, Commit 1 asset: draw 3 cards." you make the control check and then pay the cost since you still attempted to play the ability whether you fail or not.

so yes, even if you fail the CC for KFT's response it gets removed and you must commit 2 foundations if you can. and if you fail to anti K action you discard the anti k and put a card face down in your card pool. additional costs are payed after the CC is made, not passed

Ziephnir said:

Well i stand corrected.

I am a pretty big rules stickler, not that i so much mind that everyone i is playing stricly by the rules (our area is fairly casual) but i like to at least know the rules in each situation. I mean it's hard to (successfuly) play a game that you do not understand the rules to...

I'd like to see an official stamp or something but i am shocked...getting BRT'd when playing the action side of unorthodox training really sucks...(or is discard 3 after the colon...)

You make the control check, then pay the cost even if it fails, gets negated, etc.

If you play Unorthodox and fail or it gets negated you still discard 3 cards.
If you play Kung-Fu and fail or it gets negated you still have to commit 2 foundations.
If you play Infiltrating and fail or it gets negated you lose all your foundations and assets.
And so on...

That was true under the old rules, but is not stated explicitely in the current rules. Hopefully it will get added in the next addition.

The AGR reads:

2.9.1.6 When playing an action card (See 8.1 Playing a Card from Hand) as a Form (F), a player must make the control check (See 2.11 Control Checks) before paying the costs to play that card. (See 2.12 Costs.)

2.9.2.7 When playing an action card (See 8.1 Playing a Card from Hand) as an Enhance (E), a player must make the control check (See 2.11 Control Checks) before paying the costs to play that card. (See 2.12 Costs.)

2.9.3.6 When playing an action card (See 8.1 Playing a Card from Hand) as a Response ®, a player must make the control check (See 2.11 Control Checks) before paying the costs to play that card. (See 2.12 Costs.)

If that does not explicitly answer this question as I think it does, could someone please suggest a way to make this more explicitly clear?

Antigoth said:

It does and it doesn't. It states that the CC is made before the costs is paid. However it only implies that if the CC fails the cost is not paid. Just says the CC is made first.

Maybe it would be more clear if it added "once the CC is passed, additional costs are paid" or something to that effect.

How about:

"When a player attempts to play a card first the control check is made, then costs are paid for that card regardless of whether the check was successful or not, finally if the check was successful and all costs have been paid the card is played and its effects happen. "

Again, the current rules are definitely written under the assumption that if you fail a control check, you still pay the costs, however it's not explicitly stated.

youre trying to read it too specifically, it says after a control check is made, not going past that. then there is nothing to assume, if a control check is made you pay the costs, it doesnt need to say "whether it fails or not". either way a control check is made and thats what matters.

8.1.3.5 If the player fails to play a card from his hand as a form, the card goes to the discard pile with no effect. Then play proceeds to the End Phase (See 9.0 The End Phase).

Look. I know how it's supposed to go. What the rules say however is that when you fail a form you go to the end phase. It doesn't say you pay any costs associated with the form. Well, it does, elsewhere, but it doesn't actually describe how those two rules interact. As such it's ambiguous.

The rules should be explicit, not ambiguous.

Noted. I'll be starting work on the next version of the AGR sometime toward the beginning of August.

While it sucks that Set 13 has been delayed until September, it means I have some actual time this month to like have a life, hang out with Friends, and do something other then just write UFS documentation.

Wait, this post confused me, too many responses saying different things, and no official answer.

The way i've played is:

- Announce that card i intend to play

- Pay costs (say, 2 momentum or whatever)

- Attempt control check

The rules for playing a card use the phrase "make the control check before paying the costs". Does "make" in that case mean just flipping a card from the top of my deck (my interpretation), or succeeding at the check by committing foundations, etc.? If it's supposed to be a successful control check, the wording should change, just add "successfully" in front of "make the control check", or use "pass the control check". If it's the other way, it should state that costs are paid regardless of whether the control check succeeds or fails.

8.1.4 helps a bit: "A card is considered played after it has been declared and any costs payed." However, 4.8.2 says "Once a card is successfully played, it leaves this area for the card pool." Hmm, so no CC needed? That could probably be cleaned up. Adding something about the control check passing to 8.1.4 might take care of it, since a control check is not defined as a cost per 2.12.

It's basically:

Make physical control check (or generate starting control value via an effect) - MANDATORY once you start playing the action

Decide whether to commit foundations to pass control check, if applicable, and do so - YOUR CHOICE to pass/fail if your check is short

Pay additional costs for the action's ability - MANDATORY once you've made the check and started the process of playing the action

which then results in either

a. Pass control check, having paid costs, and get the effect

b. Fail control check, still having paid costs, and get no effect