Tournament play is very different than regular, casual play. For me, the time factor is the most influential. Yes, some people can make the experience less pleasant, but that's always true, no matter the setting. I've only participated in 4 tournaments so far, with very average results (win/loss: 1/2; 3/1; 2/2; 1/4). I find tournament list building to be a very unique challenge, especially now that S&V has been released. Also, I'm competitive with myself only but I still want to do as well as possible (of course). I view tournaments mostly as opportunities to play several consecutive games and face new players. So, even though I've had a few bad experiences, I won't stop playing competitively. I enjoy the game too much. For me that's key anyway... it has to still be fun.

i have to admit i had wanted to quit because of all the turrets, then i decided to go to 2 SC in 2 different areas thinking that Scum would help to alleviate the boringness of turrets, well i was wrong, 7 out of 11 lists had turrets at the 1st SC, and at the second 4 out of 14 and the top 4 where 3 of the turret lists. Very dull.

been there too

You have to be the agent of change instead of just a passive participent

Auto-thrusters don't hard-counter turrets, but they greatly reduce their effectiveness. Rebel Control lists pack enough firepower to out-roll the turrets, and if you're flinging stress at it you're making it either much easier to keep in arc or to damage. BBBBZ just does disgusting, horrible things to them.

Turrets have died out significantly in my area. Aggressors are the hot new **** to an extent, but mostly everyone's just excited about Wave 6. .

I've never been this active in tournament play. In the last month I've been to 3 SC's and I've won all my games except against this one guy that show's up everywhere (The Netherlands is a tiny country) stealing my awesome Rebel aces plaque! 3 TIMES!

In 2 weeks, I'll face him again, probably. At the last SC in NL... And he WILL go DOWN this time!! I'll go home with his ships on a spike as my trophy!

He is my white whale, without the "Moby". And I'm loving it!

I suspect I know that specific whale. Best of luck in Utrecht

Too bad.. the whale ate his fifth xD

OP: I know where you're coming from. When I played STAW there was one player at one store that was BEYOND horrible. Things he would do: Change rules (he was also TO), change time depending on how he was doing, complain through the whole store when he lost, gloat incessantly every time he beat a new player, etc. He was somehow related to the owner, but I never pieced together how. Every single other person was beyond awesome, but he was such a sore loser it made me quit playing at that store. Don't get me wrong, he was a very strong, competitive player. But he was **** near impossible to be around. In fact, almost everyone I brought into STAW left that store too because of that player. We were down to talking about conceding to him just to not play him, and that's pretty bad. That's when we all moved to another store that he couldn't get to (all the way across town).

Since leaving the STAW OP scene and concentrating on X-Wing I've had maybe 2 or 3 bad experiences in the last year. Generally, players seem to be more in tune with "fly casual, but competitive nonetheless". I've had some amazing games, met some great friends, even my nephew has tons of fun going 0-4 in SCs around here. And those bad few experiences? They've just gone. Players around here have learned to relax a little. Its really a great time to be playing the game.

I think a large part of enjoying the game is the stuff that I found great in STAW: varying tournaments. The SC/Regional/etc is great for that ultra competitive feeling, but I've been enjoying the random tournaments we come up with for the FFG season kits. We always change it up, never the 100 point deathmatch unless its practice for SC or above. Sometimes its 40 point, 59 point mixed faction, 80 point, even escalation. Sometimes its a 3v3 300 point epic game. We always seem to have some sort of fun and force ourselves out of our comfort zones. I can't imagine buying into this game, buying a netlist, and playing that every single game for a year. But I can see how others might, you just have to take the challenge upon yourself to fly your list better. Or just bring the rock to their scissors, decimate them endlessly, and have fun losing to paper/spock/lizard.

About half of my opponents in tournaments have been really stellar and gracious human beings, and half of them have been...well...somewhat less stellar. I will say that on the negative end of the spectrum, there is nothing worse than sitting across the table from someone in a 1 hour boardgame who will not engage you in conversation. On the positive end of the spectrum, most (or I guess half) of the players I come across realize they're playing a game, are there for fun first and winning second (though they play very competitively) are open to different skill and experience levels, and are genuinely nice to be around whether they win or lose.

Nope I have the most fun at tournaments.

I will say that on the negative end of the spectrum, there is nothing worse than sitting across the table from someone in a 1 hour boardgame who will not engage you in conversation. .

There is. Playing a two hour game.

I will say that on the negative end of the spectrum, there is nothing worse than sitting across the table from someone in a 1 hour boardgame who will not engage you in conversation. .

There is. Playing a two hour game.

Actually no experience on X-wing has been as bad as playing the card game Dominion with a friend and her husband. Neither would converse over the course of the game except to say, "I am purchasing this with this, and I'm playing this curse card." And then they went silent, despite repeated attempts to get them to say something, anything, over the course of what must have been 2+ hours. I don't even like board games as a general thing, so this was like some kind of horrific torture technique.

I'd just like to defend all the people that do go to tournaments to play X-Wing and not engage in small talk.

The one place you should be able to go to play X-Wing and not feel obligated to ask how your opponent's parents/siblings/spouse or dog is, IS a tournament. Civility is expected, discussion should not be.

I'd just like to defend all the people that do go to tournaments to play X-Wing and not engage in small talk.

The one place you should be able to go to play X-Wing and not feel obligated to ask how your opponent's parents/siblings/spouse or dog is, IS a tournament. Civility is expected, discussion should not be.

Sorry, but if you're standing across from someone for an hour and you can't engage in any kind of discussion, even related to the game of X-wing, you are unfathomably dull.

I'd just like to defend all the people that do go to tournaments to play X-Wing and not engage in small talk.

The one place you should be able to go to play X-Wing and not feel obligated to ask how your opponent's parents/siblings/spouse or dog is, IS a tournament. Civility is expected, discussion should not be.

Sorry, but if you're standing across from someone for an hour and you can't engage in any kind of discussion, even related to the game of X-wing, you are unfathomably dull.

That might be but let's be honest here and I don't mean this in a bad way but a lot of gamers are introverts and lack in some social skills. Also I would assume some gamers have trouble talking to women so that might make it hard to. As long as the person across from me isn't a ****** bag then I'll let them take the lead. If they want to be the silent type then I won't try to make things uncomfortable for them and forget about the small talk. If you want to make smallntalk and joke around then I'm game for that too.

I understand the introverted thing. I don't try to make anybody else uncomfortable, but I have a really hard time standing across from somebody and not being able to engage them at all for that length of time. I play a board game to be social. If I didn't want the social aspect, I'd play it against myself on my kitchen floor, since I forget my dial settings all the time anyway.

I'd just like to defend all the people that do go to tournaments to play X-Wing and not engage in small talk.

The one place you should be able to go to play X-Wing and not feel obligated to ask how your opponent's parents/siblings/spouse or dog is, IS a tournament. Civility is expected, discussion should not be.

Sorry, but if you're standing across from someone for an hour and you can't engage in any kind of discussion, even related to the game of X-wing, you are unfathomably dull.

Sorry, but if you can't enjoy a quiet game without filling it with useless noise you are unfathomably irritating.

I can be a jerk too.

That aside, context is everything, and if you aren't enjoying tournaments, fine. But don't expect others to enjoy games YOUR way, that's just selfish.

I'd just like to defend all the people that do go to tournaments to play X-Wing and not engage in small talk.

The one place you should be able to go to play X-Wing and not feel obligated to ask how your opponent's parents/siblings/spouse or dog is, IS a tournament. Civility is expected, discussion should not be.

Sorry, but if you're standing across from someone for an hour and you can't engage in any kind of discussion, even related to the game of X-wing, you are unfathomably dull.

Sorry, but if you can't enjoy a quiet game without filling it with useless noise you are unfathomably irritating.

I can be a jerk too.

That aside, context is everything, and if you aren't enjoying tournaments, fine. But don't expect others to enjoy games YOUR way, that's just selfish.

The problem is that the opponents in question, those who wouldn't engage in conversation, were also uniformly those who seemed to be enjoying themselves the least.

After going to a 'pro' event for M:tG, I decided that the 'pro' scene for tabletop games wasn't my bag.

I suppose part of it was my bias / expectations, which were apparently not calibrated correctly - I expected to go to an event where people were dressed reasonably well (by no means like a wedding reception or whatever, but y'know. Something other than ratty torn jeans & stained t-shirts), tables & chairs would be neatly arranged (and there would be enough of said chairs to seat everyone without doing things like overturning garbage cans to use as impromptu stools) and that the afternoon would not be constantly interrupted by screaming parents bursting through the doors to snare their wailing kids and drag them out of the venue.

Apparently I should've expected something that was a mash-up of the Wal-Mart toy aisle at peak hours and the grungiest McDonalds eating area you've ever had to sit in.

It's still quite the mystery to me what that $30 entry fee money went towards, exactly. :|

I dunno. Maybe it was just one badly run event, or the area I lived in (lol Alberta), but the fact that I heard over and over from fellow players that this was 'such a great event' and 'one of the best PTQs yet' caused me to steer clear of anything remotely close to that kind of thing in the future.

The problem is that the opponents in question, those who wouldn't engage in conversation, were also uniformly those who seemed to be enjoying themselves the least.

Which may or may not be what's actually happening. Like I said, context is everything. Tournaments are one place where small talk isn't and shouldn't be expected. That also draws people who don't WANT to engage in small talk to the game.

If you give them every opportunity to engage with you and they choose not to, leave it.

Maybe they can't

Maybe they don't want to

Maybe their dog died

Maybe they have too much of their ego tied up in the game

Maybe they're making poor choices and are angry at themselves

Maybe its particularly hard for them to concentrate on the game while talking to you

Maybe it's 1 or more of 1000 or more possibilities that means that right now, and this moment, they don't want to talk to you while they push their little plastic men around.

For a significant portion of people who find it difficult to interact directly to people, standing around talking about nothing in particular is just as draining and awkward as it is for other people to silently play a game.

To universally call them all dull is showing a great narrow mindedness and complete lack of perspective that I personally find distasteful, and will always call out.

I see we're debunking all kinds of stereotypes about your average game enthusiast.

Next we'll be expounding upon a gamer's right to not shower, amiright?

If your reasoning is accurate, Rividius, then why is it that the lack of small talk (or any talk it seems) expectation only present at tournaments and not elsewhere? Shouldn't that right also exist in casual games? In fact, shouldn't that right exist everywhere and in all places?

I think you'll note I never questioned anybody's right not to talk. That's clear. I also never claimed that I tried to force anybody to talk (how would I?). And I never said that I kept talking to them after they evinced no interest in talking to me (that would be rude). However, if you are standing across from somebody for an entire hour, and you don't speak to them, you are dull, rude, or both.

In the same vein, I never claimed that these individuals did not have the right to: push their plastic figures around sullenly, or to get mad, hit the table (which one gentleman did), swear loudly (which the same gentleman did), roll their eyes at my dice rolls and their own (which two gentlemen did), sigh heavily (another gentleman), throw his arms up in the air (same gentleman), walk around in an overly-dramatic circle (same gentleman), speak out very aggressively about perceived rules violations (suddenly the gentleman isn't so keen on silence), and a whole host of other behaviors at the table. They certainly are well within their rights to behave this way, and they used those rights to the fullest. At some point though, it's rude and disrespectful to the other player.

The fact that it was the gentlemen who didn't wish to engage in small talk who also engaged in the aforementioned behaviors said something to me. I don't want to generalize it to the population at large on so little evidence, but I will say it is an interesting correlation.

Well, the thing is...

...I mean, people going to a tournament to play deathly studiously, concentrating on the game and the game, only who only showed up because THEY WANT THE GRAND PRIZE...

They aren't going to have a good time, no. Why? Because there may well be 30, 40, 60 people playing - and only one winner. Odds are very good... it ain't gonna be them.

So, yeah, playing a game to ONLY win, not interested in the social aspects at all... heck, maybe they will win it all and finally feel happy at the end of the day. A half dozen people in the tournament with the same attitude? Yeah, at the very least, five of them won't. Probably all six.

It's a far better plan to show up, try to win, but mostly play to have fun. If you aren't having fun DURING at least most of your matches, you might as well pack it up and go home. You are just wasting your time.

Boardgaming is, by its nature, a far more social thing than other competitive things - from sports to video games to anything else. Arguing that it's okay to ignore that aspect of it feels... weird... to me.

Well, the thing is...

...I mean, people going to a tournament to play deathly studiously, concentrating on the game and the game, only who only showed up because THEY WANT THE GRAND PRIZE...

They aren't going to have a good time, no. Why? Because there may well be 30, 40, 60 people playing - and only one winner. Odds are very good... it ain't gonna be them.

So, yeah, playing a game to ONLY win, not interested in the social aspects at all... heck, maybe they will win it all and finally feel happy at the end of the day. A half dozen people in the tournament with the same attitude? Yeah, at the very least, five of them won't. Probably all six.

It's a far better plan to show up, try to win, but mostly play to have fun. If you aren't having fun DURING at least most of your matches, you might as well pack it up and go home. You are just wasting your time.

Boardgaming is, by its nature, a far more social thing than other competitive things - from sports to video games to anything else. Arguing that it's okay to ignore that aspect of it feels... weird... to me.

And I think your post really hit the nail on the head. As I look back on my tournament games, the pleasant ones didn't involve discussions of families or puppies or the weather, we still just talked about the game, but it was how the game was discussed. There was some back and forth banter. There was some discussion going on. When rules were mentioned it was in a friendly, polite, low-key way. Reminders of rules were understood to be reminders that were meant to be helpful, not aggressive checks on the other player. And attempts to measure something or requests for measurement were understood in the context of two different people standing in two different places with two different views of the board. So, rather than lack of small talk, I think the real issue was poor social skills.

Well, the thing is...

...I mean, people going to a tournament to play deathly studiously, concentrating on the game and the game, only who only showed up because THEY WANT THE GRAND PRIZE...

They aren't going to have a good time, no. Why? Because there may well be 30, 40, 60 people playing - and only one winner. Odds are very good... it ain't gonna be them.

So, yeah, playing a game to ONLY win, not interested in the social aspects at all... heck, maybe they will win it all and finally feel happy at the end of the day. A half dozen people in the tournament with the same attitude? Yeah, at the very least, five of them won't. Probably all six.

It's a far better plan to show up, try to win, but mostly play to have fun. If you aren't having fun DURING at least most of your matches, you might as well pack it up and go home. You are just wasting your time.

Boardgaming is, by its nature, a far more social thing than other competitive things - from sports to video games to anything else. Arguing that it's okay to ignore that aspect of it feels... weird... to me.

It's okay to ignore those aspects, lords knows there's plenty of introverted gamers out there. But it's also another person's right to feel bored for want of human interaction, so you can't tell them "no, you're not allowed to call people dull!".

I see we're debunking all kinds of stereotypes about your average game enthusiast.

Next we'll be expounding upon a gamer's right to not shower, amiright?

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but:

I was far more dumbfounded at the organizers than the players. Like, "Okay, here is the $30 entry fee," "Alright. Cool. Here is your plastic deck chair. Go sit over there, elbow to elbow with players in different games on either side of you at a 20' plastic table that even a college dorm would be embarrassed to have. Enjoy the ambiance of burritos being microwaved in the cafeteria."

I see we're debunking all kinds of stereotypes about your average game enthusiast.

Next we'll be expounding upon a gamer's right to not shower, amiright?

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but:

I was far more dumbfounded at the organizers than the players. Like, "Okay, here is the $30 entry fee," "Alright. Cool. Here is your plastic deck chair. Go sit over there, elbow to elbow with players in different games on either side of you at a 20' plastic table that even a college dorm would be embarrassed to have. Enjoy the ambiance of burritos being microwaved in the cafeteria."

I think he was replying to Rividius' vigorous defense of a gamer's right to be dead silent for an hour when standing three feet away from another person, ostensibly playing a game with them.

As to your situation, I wouldn't play in those surroundings either. In fact, the only reason I frequent the board game store where I live instead of another one, or no store at all (as used to be the case) is that the store I go to is incredibly clean, well-lit, bright and airy, with nice bathrooms (also kept perfectly clean) and high quality furnishings. It looks and feels welcoming, inviting, and professional. As did FFG's headquarters, I should note.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but:

I was far more dumbfounded at the organizers than the players. Like, "Okay, here is the $30 entry fee," "Alright. Cool. Here is your plastic deck chair. Go sit over there, elbow to elbow with players in different games on either side of you at a 20' plastic table that even a college dorm would be embarrassed to have. Enjoy the ambiance of burritos being microwaved in the cafeteria."

It wasn't, but never let that stop you from responding. What kind of event was it? Limited? Modern? Standard? A PTQ I can see a heftier entry fee for; FNM not so much.

Organizers are easier to make sense of. I wouldn't call them greedy so much as frugal, and a lot of arrangements are made on an ad hoc basis. X-Wing is, blessedly, a smaller draw for gamers than M;tG, so despite the mandatory real estate requirement you rarely find yourself in such close proximity to other players. I've rarely seen so disgusting a breed as your average Magic player.