Okay - so.

I'm trying to learn to use the TIE fighter swarm. But I want to do things a little differently, so I'm trying out a squad consisting of the six named TIE/ln pilots; the three Black Squadron aces (Mauler Mithel, Backstabber, Dark Curse), and the three Obsidian Squadon aces (Howlrunner, Night Beast, Winged Gundark).

It's done okay, but to date I've had one match where the balance of the two lists were massively in my favour*, one where the balance of the two lists were massively against me**, and one where I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn no matter how many shots I fired***, so it's still very much in the 'getting used to it' stages

Now this doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room in the list. Specifically, I have three points left. Equally the only slots I have to use are modifications and the elite pilot talents on Howlrunner and Mauler Mithel.

The way I see it, there are only about half a dozen options:

• Veteran Instincts
• Determination
• Adrenaline Rush
• Calculation
• Squad Leader or Swarm Tactics (max 1)
• Hull Upgrade or Stealth Device (no other upgrades)

Feel free to weigh in with recommendations or to point out a practical alternative I've missed (I've ignored lone wolf, for example, because staying solo when you have a six-ship swarm on the table is bloody difficult in a not especially manouvrable TIE). I'm not looking to change the ships, only their upgrades.

Thoughts?

Some suggestions to start the debate:

Veteran Instincts -nice, simple, and doesn't take much remembering. Furthermore, Mauler Mithel jumps PS8 into PS9 with it, and that's a bracket crowded with very popular pilots. Plus, shooting first with one of the more dakka-ey TIE Fighters is good. Howlrunner...I'm less convinced. Yes, going to PS10 is nice, but the thing is, as long as Howlrunner is alive, I'm probably flying formation around her, so my manouvres are driven by the lowest PS in the squad, not the highest. If I have to break formation to engage a Phantom, though, having Mithel and Howlrunner both going after a PS8 Echo could make the difference between winning and losing, and Echo is certainly somethng a swarm needs to bear in mind.

Determination - for Mauler Mithel I think there's better. I'm aware that mangler cannons, calculation, greedo and vader on decimators means that a lot more critical damage gets thrown around than it used to - so the odds of this sparing you a hit increases. Still, only 8/33 damage cards are affected, so the odds of taking a pilot critical still aren't great. On Howlrunner, obviously it's much better as she's pretty much just a hull 3 caddy to carry her pilot ability around in, so avoiding losing it is good!

Adrenaline Rush - having a focus token or evade token after a koiogran turn is very good...but is it worth it on a TIE fighter? Howlrunner tends to draw all the fire...so maybe for her. The fact that it's only one use isn't too big a deal as sh tends to be dead after a second pass anyway.

Calculation - Mauler Mithel has a four dice attack at range 1 - so I can see this working very well; I'd expect at least one focus result and probably not more than one. Howlrunner? I think her actions are better used keeping her alive.

Squad Leader - No. There is no-one else in the squad I'd want to have an action at the expense of Mauler Mithel or Howlrunner having theirs. A TIE Fighter's action bar is pretty sparse anyway.

Swarm Tactics - If I had a 'chain' of them, then maybe. But elevating one TIE fighter's pilot skill is pretty inconsequential, especially since the lowest is 5 already and it can only go to a maximum of 8.

Hull Upgrade/Stealth Device - Inevitably on Howlrunner. If it saves me an extra hit, it might just give me a second turn of rerolled fire.

* TIE fighters versus Y-wings and specifically Dark Curse versus blaster turrets. For a 16 point wave 1 ship, he just keeps getting more and more annoying for people to deal with...

** A TIE fighter swarm versus two assault missile-laden bombers and Colonel Vessery with Ruthlessness. Splash damage ahoy!

*** Six TIE fighters at range 1 caused.....2 damage.

I've never flown this, but I remember being interested in other people discussing it 'back in the day'. I believe that was around wave 3 when it was getting some use? Anyway, at that time, it seems to me the best choice was stealth device on Howlie. Now I would think maybe Hull upgrade is better, but that's personal preference. I agree with you that none of the other options are all that compelling, and you don't need an initiative bid, so might as well spend all 3 points.

V.I and V.I

Imo, there's not much choice in the matter leftover from the previous meta. PS 10 gives Howl a new lease on life against phantoms and soontirs by letting her arc-dodge a bit while PS 9 lets Mauler get a shot off before being obliterated unceremoniously.

howlrunner+swarm

2xblack+swarm

4x academy

As noted - I'm specifically wanting to field the 6 named pilots, so not an option.

I agree with you that none of the other options are all that compelling, and you don't need an initiative bid, so might as well spend all 3 points.

Not from a pilot skill perspective - although PS5-7 is getting 'busier' with Scum & Villainy - but if flying two three-ship elements in close proximity an initiative bid re asteroids might be useful...

Imo, there's not much choice in the matter leftover from the previous meta. PS 10 gives Howl a new lease on life against phantoms and soontirs by letting her arc-dodge a bit while PS 9 lets Mauler get a shot off before being obliterated unceremoniously.

I tend to find that Howlrunner draws all the fire on the first exchange of fire, so Mithel doesn't necessarily get obliterated; against most opponents I'd be prepared to take calculation on him for that really nasty strafing run (which can make a mess of large ships).

The problem is ultimately that I don't think I can get around Veteran Instincts as Phantom insurance - or, more specifically, Echo insurance. Whisper I've never found too bad - yes, free tokens, but you can allow for her decloak manouvres and enough fire will kill her. Echo is just too **** flexible to ever bottle up; without a hell of a lot of ships, or a higher pilot skill, he'll always find the one bloody blind spot....

Way back when I did pretty well with a six-Tie swarm tactics chain. IIRC it was Howlrunner + ST (20) + Mauler + ST (19) + 2x Black Squadron with ST (32) + Backstabber + Academy Pilot. I doubt it would work anymore, but it was brutal if you managed to get someone to joust or could time your turn into the asteroid field right.

The problem is ultimately that I don't think I can get around Veteran Instincts as Phantom insurance - or, more specifically, Echo insurance. Whisper I've never found too bad - yes, free tokens, but you can allow for her decloak manouvres and enough fire will kill her. Echo is just too **** flexible to ever bottle up; without a hell of a lot of ships, or a higher pilot skill, he'll always find the one bloody blind spot....

I think this is a mental problem that a lot of people have and need to get over in order to become better xwing players. Echo doesn't have infinite places to go, she has pretty much precisely 10 decloak locations, and about 6 truly "unique" ones. It isn't that hard to predict what are legal places for the ship to go and to point some guns at her. Block off the places that put you in the worst position, and corral the phantom in the decloak direction you want it to go in. The goal isn't stopping decloak, but channeling it where you want it. I've trapped echo (repeatedly) with 3 ships before, it's not that tough unless she's in the middle of an empty board, and if that's the case, just shoot the other ship and stay away from her.

People constantly see the phantom as this invincible godship that can't ever be trapped, but realistically you just need to cut off decloak lanes and think a few turns ahead and you can beat them handily. 4 evasion dice is a lot, but it only takes 4 hits sneaking by those dice to kill the ship.

For your options, you could also take predator on Howlrunner (if you have that upgrade), as it lets her reroll as well, which is sort of the only thing she's lacking, and stealth device/hull upgrade on her is never a bad idea. Shield upgrade or engine on Mithel also isn't terribly amiss, as he can do a lot of work if he gets in range 1 and stays alive

I think this is a mental problem that a lot of people have and need to get over in order to become better xwing players. Echo doesn't have infinite places to go, she has pretty much precisely 10 decloak locations, and about 6 truly "unique" ones. It isn't that hard to predict what are legal places for the ship to go and to point some guns at her. Block off the places that put you in the worst position, and corral the phantom in the decloak direction you want it to go in. The goal isn't stopping decloak, but channeling it where you want it. I've trapped echo (repeatedly) with 3 ships before, it's not that tough unless she's in the middle of an empty board, and if that's the case, just shoot the other ship and stay away from her.

People constantly see the phantom as this invincible godship that can't ever be trapped, but realistically you just need to cut off decloak lanes and think a few turns ahead and you can beat them handily. 4 evasion dice is a lot, but it only takes 4 hits sneaking by those dice to kill the ship.

For your options, you could also take predator on Howlrunner (if you have that upgrade), as it lets her reroll as well, which is sort of the only thing she's lacking, and stealth device/hull upgrade on her is never a bad idea. Shield upgrade or engine on Mithel also isn't terribly amiss, as he can do a lot of work if he gets in range 1 and stays alive

Oh, I agree - it's a bit of a crutch, and I could do with learning my way past it.

I have beaten Echo with veteran TIE fighters before - by trying to lay arcs of fire on as many decloak points as possible.

"shoot the other ship" isn't usually an issue - I've played multiple phantoms before, and Whisper, or the two Sigma wingmen, tend to get green lasers applied en masse in the first couple of turns; I don't find their manouvres too hard to predict. What gets me is more Echo's ability to turn 45' during a decloak, combined with the fact that a phantom has a pretty manouvrable dial. I'm not complaining, I just need more practice.

That said, Veteran instincts also has a mechanic that assists that; even if you force him to break left (for example) and have shots on him, punching through four evade dice with two attack dice is a lot harder than punching through two evade dice.

I'm not sure I'd take predator on Howlrunner - the benefit she provides to the rest of the squad is significantly more than the damage she can do solo - so I'm almost tempted not to draw the extra fire at her. A hull upgrade or stealth device isn't a bad plan.

Sadliy, shields and engines are both one point out of the price margin.