I haven't run into anyone who cheated, but I have run into a couple of bad sports. Childish stuff, really; like throwing your ships and templates around when you have some bad luck, or sulking excessively when you lose a match. Plenty of people have a love-hate (often mostly hate) relationship with their dice, but this guy was having a bit of a tantrum when his dice failed him.

That said, the vast majority of people I've played against take everything in stride and can have fun even in the face of comically bad dice. I played a game last week on Vassal where a cloaked phantom was taken out at R3 by two Y-wings, having rolled 5 eyeballs followed by 5 blanks, and we both had a good laugh about it. Presumably he burned his computer ritually later that evening to appease the dice gods.

Have anyone tried running a trillion-billion rolls in the dice app to check if it's fair?

One of the guys at the tourney with us ran 2,000 rolls on it during his bye, and he said that it returned stupid amounts of focus, hits and evades and almost no blanks. We think perhaps that since they integrated the new games into it, there is a corruption in the algorithm. At the end of the day, maybe I'm wrong and it was just luck, but it seemed odd that he never ONCE went with TL or barrle rolls, just focus all the way through and then would roll hits and focuses almost every single time as needed.

Your arguments vis-a-vis his action choice is very flimsy. Focus is a superior action. It gets you the same odds as a TL, and although you don't get to keep it, you can choose the target of your attack later and you can choose to spend it on defense. I can play a lot of games just using focus. I almost never Barrel roll as a single action for instance, because I hate having unmodified attacks, I don't trust my dice. I'd rather maneuver differently and not need it. And I'm very biased against other actions (again, in the single action scenario). I consider it a misplay for instance if you evade on more than one ship (if they only get one action), or if you TL a ship if you know you are not going to fire at again in the near future. If in doubt, focus.

Not sure how many people on here play X wing via Vassel but that obviously uses random generated dice and I have on more than one occasion played a no blanks game, from either player, on both sets (red and green). There is no way a computer can be as random as dice.

Oh come on. I'd actually argue that the computer's pseudorandom number generator is just as random if not more random than your physical dice. Physical dice used in Xwing aren't casino grade craps dice that are as perfectly balanced as a die can be. After all the casino has thousands if not millions of dollars riding on the fact that their dice are completely balanced. Xwing dice are FAR from that standard. Most of us have seen the translucent dice that last years regional winners received. That have air bubbles inside them that do alter the weight and "randomness" of them. The standard Xwing dice must have the same manufacturing issues, and therefore must be far from truly random. That being said the physical dice are more than random enough to suit Xwings needs. The random number generator in java is random enough for vassal. The random number generator in IOS/Android is random enough for the Xwing dice app.

Until anyone has logged and analyzed thousands of dice rolls for a given die or from the Xwing dice app, this is all total conjecture and anecdotal. Someone that is rolling 2000 Xwing dice app and says that there were very few blanks is unreliable. You'd need to actually log the results, and do a full statistical analysis of the rolls, without that you are counting on his biased brain to give you a fair and impartial interpretation? After all, he's rolling those dice in the app because he believes that there are fewer than expected blanks, that's far from unbiased.

The physical dice are random enough. The computer dice are slightly more random, and still random enough (but far less fun to play with).

Have anyone tried running a trillion-billion rolls in the dice app to check if it's fair?

One of the guys at the tourney with us ran 2,000 rolls on it during his bye, and he said that it returned stupid amounts of focus, hits and evades and almost no blanks. We think perhaps that since they integrated the new games into it, there is a corruption in the algorithm. At the end of the day, maybe I'm wrong and it was just luck, but it seemed odd that he never ONCE went with TL or barrle rolls, just focus all the way through and then would roll hits and focuses almost every single time as needed.

Your arguments vis-a-vis his action choice is very flimsy. Focus is a superior action. It gets you the same odds as a TL, and although you don't get to keep it, you can choose the target of your attack later and you can choose to spend it on defense. I can play a lot of games just using focus. I almost never Barrel roll as a single action for instance, because I hate having unmodified attacks, I don't trust my dice. I'd rather maneuver differently and not need it. And I'm very biased against other actions (again, in the single action scenario). I consider it a misplay for instance if you evade on more than one ship (if they only get one action), or if you TL a ship if you know you are not going to fire at again in the near future. If in doubt, focus.

You will no doubt have noticed the part where I said 'At the end of the day maybe I'm wrong and it was just luck' so I'm not sure what argument of mine is 'flimsy'. I've also said that the dice app was the least of my concerns in terms of playing against the guy. Bottom line, the app seemed to return inordinate amounts of focus results, meaning that most of the attacks he made against me ended up being 'full' in terms of hits landed. This was a minor irritation and happened so frequently that I thought it worth mentioning. It seemed to me that perhaps this was a glitch in the app - whether he was deliberately exploiting it or simply 'using the superior action' isn't really of any concern to me - the end result (that he literally seemed unable to miss at all the entire game) was of slight concern, but hey. as I said in the OP, sometimes your dice are just 'hot' - my final game for example, my friend consistently landed good (tho not PERFECT) attack rolls whereas I rolled inordinate numbers of blanks. Them's the breaks, and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game because laughs were had and all was friendly and nice and nobody tried to cheat.

I'm far from a guru - I have been playing the game properly for about three months - but it struck me as odd that over the course of an entire game that went to the 75 minute limit, the ONLY action played by a Z95/B wing list was focus, every single turn.

The physical dice are random enough. The computer dice are slightly more random, and still random enough (but far less fun to play with).

Bah, I'll take my app any day over those little bouncing octozoids of destruction bowling my poor minis over

Not sure how many people on here play X wing via Vassel but that obviously uses random generated dice and I have on more than one occasion played a no blanks game, from either player, on both sets (red and green). There is no way a computer can be as random as dice.

Oh come on. I'd actually argue that the computer's pseudorandom number generator is just as random if not more random than your physical dice. Physical dice used in Xwing aren't casino grade craps dice that are as perfectly balanced as a die can be. After all the casino has thousands if not millions of dollars riding on the fact that their dice are completely balanced. Xwing dice are FAR from that standard. Most of us have seen the translucent dice that last years regional winners received. That have air bubbles inside them that do alter the weight and "randomness" of them. The standard Xwing dice must have the same manufacturing issues, and therefore must be far from truly random. That being said the physical dice are more than random enough to suit Xwings needs. The random number generator in java is random enough for vassal. The random number generator in IOS/Android is random enough for the Xwing dice app.

Until anyone has logged and analyzed thousands of dice rolls for a given die or from the Xwing dice app, this is all total conjecture and anecdotal. Someone that is rolling 2000 Xwing dice app and says that there were very few blanks is unreliable. You'd need to actually log the results, and do a full statistical analysis of the rolls, without that you are counting on his biased brain to give you a fair and impartial interpretation? After all, he's rolling those dice in the app because he believes that there are fewer than expected blanks, that's far from unbiased.

The physical dice are random enough. The computer dice are slightly more random, and still random enough (but far less fun to play with).

I would go as far to declare the computer dice are 100% random. App 'cheats' are a different story but I hope noone has figured that out.

Despite possible imperfections, I would say rolling dice has a certain 'fun' factor to it though, Shaking in your hand to get that last good roll and watching as it plods around to get that final evade...

If I was a TO, I'd only allow dice apps if both players used the same app on the same device throughout the match.

I stated this in another thread: We had a guy who hacked the app. When he pressed in a certain spot he could get the rolls he needed.

As TO: I had to see it to believe it. But now I always watch app players cautiously. He was the first one I truly found had hacked the app. We no longer allow him to use the app when he plays in our tournaments. Surpisingly he has won the last two, but he still did finish in the top 4 each time.

You allow a player that had blatantly cheated to continue to attend events?

As I stated in my previous email: He is friends with the store owner and he won't ban him, so we just decided to force him to use regular dice.

Have anyone tried running a trillion-billion rolls in the dice app to check if it's fair?

One of the guys at the tourney with us ran 2,000 rolls on it during his bye, and he said that it returned stupid amounts of focus, hits and evades and almost no blanks. We think perhaps that since they integrated the new games into it, there is a corruption in the algorithm. At the end of the day, maybe I'm wrong and it was just luck, but it seemed odd that he never ONCE went with TL or barrle rolls, just focus all the way through and then would roll hits and focuses almost every single time as needed.

Your arguments vis-a-vis his action choice is very flimsy. Focus is a superior action. It gets you the same odds as a TL, and although you don't get to keep it, you can choose the target of your attack later and you can choose to spend it on defense. I can play a lot of games just using focus. I almost never Barrel roll as a single action for instance, because I hate having unmodified attacks, I don't trust my dice. I'd rather maneuver differently and not need it. And I'm very biased against other actions (again, in the single action scenario). I consider it a misplay for instance if you evade on more than one ship (if they only get one action), or if you TL a ship if you know you are not going to fire at again in the near future. If in doubt, focus.

You will no doubt have noticed the part where I said 'At the end of the day maybe I'm wrong and it was just luck' so I'm not sure what argument of mine is 'flimsy'. I've also said that the dice app was the least of my concerns in terms of playing against the guy. Bottom line, the app seemed to return inordinate amounts of focus results, meaning that most of the attacks he made against me ended up being 'full' in terms of hits landed. This was a minor irritation and happened so frequently that I thought it worth mentioning. It seemed to me that perhaps this was a glitch in the app - whether he was deliberately exploiting it or simply 'using the superior action' isn't really of any concern to me - the end result (that he literally seemed unable to miss at all the entire game) was of slight concern, but hey. as I said in the OP, sometimes your dice are just 'hot' - my final game for example, my friend consistently landed good (tho not PERFECT) attack rolls whereas I rolled inordinate numbers of blanks. Them's the breaks, and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game because laughs were had and all was friendly and nice and nobody tried to cheat.

I'm far from a guru - I have been playing the game properly for about three months - but it struck me as odd that over the course of an entire game that went to the 75 minute limit, the ONLY action played by a Z95/B wing list was focus, every single turn.

The part I'm calling flimsy is that you base your accusation on that player using a single action. What I argued is that is by no means "sketchy" play but fairly normal. That it happened on a lucky streak is pure coincidence. Check Sozin's Lady luck page to see how unbalanced the dice can be on Vassal.

Your other complaints are legitimitate bad behaviour, but this first one muddles everything for me, bringing into question your objective portrayal of the events. Not that it's super important, but I felt I needed to point out that I strongly disagree with your "he used only focus all game + he got many focus result = h4x0r"

Not sure how many people on here play X wing via Vassel but that obviously uses random generated dice and I have on more than one occasion played a no blanks game, from either player, on both sets (red and green). There is no way a computer can be as random as dice.

Oh come on. I'd actually argue that the computer's pseudorandom number generator is just as random if not more random than your physical dice. Physical dice used in Xwing aren't casino grade craps dice that are as perfectly balanced as a die can be. After all the casino has thousands if not millions of dollars riding on the fact that their dice are completely balanced. Xwing dice are FAR from that standard. Most of us have seen the translucent dice that last years regional winners received. That have air bubbles inside them that do alter the weight and "randomness" of them. The standard Xwing dice must have the same manufacturing issues, and therefore must be far from truly random. That being said the physical dice are more than random enough to suit Xwings needs. The random number generator in java is random enough for vassal. The random number generator in IOS/Android is random enough for the Xwing dice app.

Until anyone has logged and analyzed thousands of dice rolls for a given die or from the Xwing dice app, this is all total conjecture and anecdotal. Someone that is rolling 2000 Xwing dice app and says that there were very few blanks is unreliable. You'd need to actually log the results, and do a full statistical analysis of the rolls, without that you are counting on his biased brain to give you a fair and impartial interpretation? After all, he's rolling those dice in the app because he believes that there are fewer than expected blanks, that's far from unbiased.

The physical dice are random enough. The computer dice are slightly more random, and still random enough (but far less fun to play with).

I want to love those translucent dice, but mine don't love me back.

If I was a TO, I'd only allow dice apps if both players used the same app on the same device throughout the match.

I honestly thought that was the rule -- if someone is using the app, both players have to use it -- but I don't see that in the official rules, just that the app has to be in full view at all times.

If I was a TO, I'd only allow dice apps if both players used the same app on the same device throughout the match.

I honestly thought that was the rule -- if someone is using the app, both players have to use it -- but I don't see that in the official rules, just that the app has to be in full view at all times.

the official rules is that the app is a licensed FFG product viable for use at all sanctioned events period

hacked or modded versions are obviously in violation of terms of use and are therefore exceptions

Only bad experience I've had is with someone who, rather than the tiny Army Painter LOS lasers, had brought along something industrial and, like a twonk, picked it up without looking in the middle of a game. That eye was not in a happy place for a good long time after that, took a good 20 minutes or so for it to recover.

Not run up against someone who was just an ass to play, though.

Hmmm - I'm not sure what accusation that you're driving at. I never said he was definitely a hacker, I said that it struck me as odd that he rolled so consistently well in terms of 'hits/evades/focus' for the duration of an entire game. I said that it seemed peculiar that on his attacks at least, there seemed to be round after round of perfect shooting because he'd roll all the hits and focus. Now, had he been a pleasant and reasonable chap who had otherwise behaved impeccably throughout the day then I am quite sure I would have simply shrugged it off to good luck on his part and thought no more of it. The fact that I actually witnessed him try and cheat once and called him on it, then saw him blatantly cheat again but had given up the will to live, plus overheard and witnessed him being plain obnoxious to other players throughout the day, made me feel a little less well-disposed towards him than I otherwise might have been, so yeah, all that being the case, the thought entered my head that perhaps some shenanigans might be afoot.

But as I said in the OP, I think that the APP is broken. I never said 'I think he hacked it' (go back and check if you like) but I observed that an unnatural number of decent rolls in his favour seemed to occur. Now, maybe he was just focusing all the time because that is the 'premium action' as you claim (like I said, I'm hardly a guru so I bow to your superior knowledge) and maybe coincidentally the app favours focus and he benefited from that - and I have already said all this. Equally, maybe the app is broken in favour of Focus and he DOES know that and that's why he focused so consistently above any other action. Equally equally, maybe the app isn't broken at all, he just likes to focus and he happened to have a hot streak on his dice that day against me and my friend (I didn't watch his other two games so I don't know what happened in those other than in the last one where his opponent insisted he use actual dice he got beaten 100-0).

Ultimately you can choose to believe or disbelieve whatever I have to say about any of his behaviour, but I am fairly certain that everyone else who faced him had the same experience that I did, and being as how he placed 9th overall you can hardly put that down to sour grapes (my friend who played him first for example came 5th and the guy who made him use dice ultimately won the whole tourney and they both agreed that he was the most obnoxious player that they had come across in an X wing tourney setting).

The thing about him trying to draw one fewer damage card and bumping my ship but then pretending it hadn't happened? Well, if you think there is some way I can have spun that to make it seem as if he was a bad guy when he was actually a lovely chap then fair enough. If you think I'm making up that a whole room heard his loud comments on Rebel Captive to his opponent then so be it. I described a situation and asked the opinion of the forum and you've given yours so thanks. But please don't put words into my mouth is all - I never said that the guy was a hacker, I described something as odd, and I deliberately mentioned it first and said that it would seem minor before describing the other stuff that he had done which had actually annoyed me, as opposed to the dice app thing which I found odd and slightly irritating but ultimately not really a massive issue.

Peace out.

If the app is broken, that's FFG's fault, not the players that choose to use it.

If he bumped your ship out of position you get to move it back. Don't be afraid to argue with someone if you know you're right and the game is on the line, you can always get the TO to back you up.

The current status of how to handle a forgotten Rebel Captive is a contentious one, right now there is only a soft agreement among the majority of TOs on how to handle it, allowing it to be applied up until the next planning phase, that isn't really supported by the written rules.

The tournament rules say:

If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect,

he cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his opponent.

And the FAQ says:

If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing
window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the
Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

Neither rule makes any kind of exception for mandatory or "may" effects. There's also nothing in the rules that say that it's not allowed to let your opponent forget to use their own cards against you. Also if you are a player who is just reading the official documents that FFG puts out, you'd conclude based on these docs that you don't have to remind your opponent about Rebel Captive.

I tend to go with the "soft rule" that Rebel Captive can be applied retroactively up to the planning phase, but that gets really messy when you are dealing with things like Turr Phenir or Whisper, and a player that is playing the game RAW (rules-as-written) would not have access to that rule unless he talks to the TO ahead of time, which is frustrating.

If the app is broken, that's FFG's fault, not the players that choose to use it.

If he bumped your ship out of position you get to move it back. Don't be afraid to argue with someone if you know you're right and the game is on the line, you can always get the TO to back you up.

The current status of how to handle a forgotten Rebel Captive is a contentious one, right now there is only a soft agreement among the majority of TOs on how to handle it, allowing it to be applied up until the next planning phase, that isn't really supported by the written rules.

The tournament rules say:

If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect,

he cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his opponent.

And the FAQ says:

If a player forgets to declare a game effect during a specific timing

window (such as declaring the target of Swarm Tactics at the start of the

Combat phase), he may not execute that game effect at a latter time.

Neither rule makes any kind of exception for mandatory or "may" effects. There's also nothing in the rules that say that it's not allowed to let your opponent forget to use their own cards against you. Also if you are a player who is just reading the official documents that FFG puts out, you'd conclude based on these docs that you don't have to remind your opponent about Rebel Captive.

I tend to go with the "soft rule" that Rebel Captive can be applied retroactively up to the planning phase, but that gets really messy when you are dealing with things like Turr Phenir or Whisper, and a player that is playing the game RAW (rules-as-written) would not have access to that rule unless he talks to the TO ahead of time, which is frustrating.

1. I never said that it was the player's fault that the app was or wasn't broken. I'm frankly bored of talking about the app. The thing that bothered me was the guy's overall attitude and conduct. His app consistently rolling almost perfect results for him turn after turn was irritating, but I honestly wouldn't have registered it as an issue as such if he had been even slightly more pleasant overall to deal with.

2. I could have called him on the bumping, and in retrospect I wish I had (not that I think it would have made a huge difference to the end result) but tbh by that point I was tired, I had a headache and I just didn't want to interact with him more than I had to, so I left it and that's MY issue totally, but it doesn't change how blatant a bit of cheating it was, and my estimation of him as a player in light of it.

3. The forgotten Rebel Captive - let's be straight here. There is NO compulsion on you to inform your opponent of the fact that they have forgotten to make use of an effect. That's fine. But I think it's gamesmanship/rules lawyering to the nth degree when you apply that logic to an auto effect. More so when you actually stand there and say out loud to your opponent that if they forget then you aren't going to remind them. But aside from that, it's just not a nice thing to do. It doesn't display good sportsmanship and there was no need for it.

End of the day, it didn't ruin my whole day, I am not saying that he was a mad hacker or that he was cheating with everything, but I saw enough to let me know that he wasn't what I would look for in an opponent.

I've only seen one player like this in about 15 tournaments. I assume they are transfers from 40K or something.

Popularity has its disadvantages too. Not saying that all or most 40K players are like that (I am one myself too), but you do remember that one player or those type of people from 40K who for some godforsaken reason want to ruin everyone's experience so that they can gloat over it. Well sadly they are on their way over here.

If I was a TO, I'd only allow dice apps if both players used the same app on the same device throughout the match.

Pretty much this, for the same reason that I usually prefer - if the game is a tournament - both players to use the same dice.

Dice apps hosted locally on your phone or whatever are trivially easy to break into and tweak, just as loaded dice are a dime a dozen. I'm rarely comfortable when someone has brought their own dice, and an app would just be right out for me (in fairness, my experience is a bit colored after having worked at a local casino. I think people would be surprised at how often people try to cheat at games - at casinos anyway - even if there is little to no money on the line).

...

Peace out.

Please use the quote button or I won't be able to see you've posted a response.

You never said he was a hacker, just merely implied he gained an unfair advantage somehow, using flawed logic. I guess we can close that chapter now.

It's very easy to see malice in people if that's what you're looking for. I've played a fair share of games, and yet I still bump when I move them around. It just happens, sometimes it's the sloppy surface, or not paying attention to protruding elements (looking at you, B-wings). If you have something against me, it would probably be easy to say "omg you ***#$@* cheater". I don't know about the specifics, but I've been amazed one too many times of two people retelling some events in a completely different way.

Of course everybody in this thread will respond to the app part, because the rest, as you've told it, is pretty straightforward, he sounds like a jerk.

...

Peace out.

Please use the quote button or I won't be able to see you've posted a response.

You never said he was a hacker, just merely implied he gained an unfair advantage somehow, using flawed logic. I guess we can close that chapter now.

It's very easy to see malice in people if that's what you're looking for. I've played a fair share of games, and yet I still bump when I move them around. It just happens, sometimes it's the sloppy surface, or not paying attention to protruding elements (looking at you, B-wings). If you have something against me, it would probably be easy to say "omg you ***#$@* cheater". I don't know about the specifics, but I've been amazed one too many times of two people retelling some events in a completely different way.

Of course everybody in this thread will respond to the app part, because the rest, as you've told it, is pretty straightforward, he sounds like a jerk.

Ummm - bumping ships happens in a game - I get that, we are all human and it's tricky not to have that happen. Hell, i do it regularly, and I am always the first to apologise for it and I will always check with my opponent that they are happy with where I re-place the ship and try to do so in the fairest possible way. I would never call somone a cheater because they accidentally nudged a ship when moving it.

Making a maneuver which you can't quite complete because your ship hits mine, and then spending about a minute jiggling with the pointy out bits hitting my model so it moves away and you now have room to set your base down, and then pretending that you made the maneuver with room to spare and laying down a focus and declaring a range one shot is cheating. Simples. And that's what he did. I apologise if that wasn't clearer before but that was exactly what happened. And as I said, I even said out loud as he was squirming his ship in there to move mine away 'oh, I thought you might have gotten away with that' as in 'oh, bad luck, that didn't quite work out' (because *I* was *trying* to remain sportsmanlike in the face of his extreme D-baggery) and he just flat out ignored the comment, laid down his focus and carried on as if nothing had happened.

I wasn't looking for malice, I saw cheating. Twice. It is not plausible to me (unless you have the memory of a goldfish) to say that in the literally two seconds between me declaring the dice result which you can clearly see on the table and you drawing the damage cards, you have forgotten what I rolled. That isn't reasonable. Maneuvering into someone's ship and then pretending that you haven't isn't reasonable. Accusing someone of bumping an asteroid when they clearly haven't is not reasonable. Telling someone they are acting illegally with their pilot when they are not because you don't understand the rules is not reasonable.

You seem to think that I had a downer on the guy because he used the dice app and then was looking for other reasons to dislike him. In fact, I disliked him from the first moment he opened his mouth because he came accross as a cocky, arrogant rule lawyer who was going to spend the entire game looking for angles. I don't happen to enjoy playing against that type of opponent. He then went on to demonstrate that he was more than willing to cheat to gain an advantage, that he was quite happy making loud and obnoxious comments and accusations and that despite his own cheating, he would be the first to try and cry foul at anything he perceived as going against him.

All of these things make him unlikeable as an opponent. The fact that on top of all this he used a dice app that seemed (when I played him) incapable of rolling anything but hits and focuses just made the situation all the more annoying, and given all the other reasons I had to believe him a cheater (like actually witnessing him cheat twice) the thought occurred that perhaps shenanigans may have been afoot. And my line of thought with those shenanigans ran thusly - Perhaps the app is biased in favour of focus, perhaps he knows this and therefore uses the app (because let's get real here - using an app at a tourney is ODD and dice aren't exactly heavy) so that he can maximise his chances of getting hits. Equally, as I am bored witless of saying, maybe there is that bug in the app and he ISN'T aware and just likes using it. Or maybe there isn't a bug at all and he just had a REALLY lucky streak on his dice against me and my friend. I don't actually care.

I'm at the stage now where I am so bored of talking about the damned app I can't even tell you, and I don't understand why, when I have made it so perfectly clear NUMEROUS times that the app was the very tiniest of my issues, right from the OP onwards, you seem fixated on bringing it up again and again as if it is the lynchpin of my argument and because you have (erroneously) decided that I am accusing him of something with this minor observation then all of my other observations are somehow made up. Because I, a 34 year old man with a wife and work and all sorts of other demands on my time, clearly wouldn't have anything better to do than sit down and make up a load of rubbish about someone I met once at a tourney who i will most likely never encounter again and in spite of whom I actually had a really nice day?

Seriously, I posted it up as a general interest thing. Maybe he's a really nice guy. Maybe he's you, or a really good friend of yours. Who the hell knows or cares? when I played against him, he acted like a tool. In fact, the entire day that I had to be around him he acted like a tool. I can't really say any more than that.

...

Peace out.

Please use the quote button or I won't be able to see you've posted a response.

You never said he was a hacker, just merely implied he gained an unfair advantage somehow, using flawed logic. I guess we can close that chapter now.

It's very easy to see malice in people if that's what you're looking for. I've played a fair share of games, and yet I still bump when I move them around. It just happens, sometimes it's the sloppy surface, or not paying attention to protruding elements (looking at you, B-wings). If you have something against me, it would probably be easy to say "omg you ***#$@* cheater". I don't know about the specifics, but I've been amazed one too many times of two people retelling some events in a completely different way.

Of course everybody in this thread will respond to the app part, because the rest, as you've told it, is pretty straightforward, he sounds like a jerk.

Ummm - bumping ships happens in a game - I get that, we are all human and it's tricky not to have that happen. Hell, i do it regularly, and I am always the first to apologise for it and I will always check with my opponent that they are happy with where I re-place the ship and try to do so in the fairest possible way. I would never call somone a cheater because they accidentally nudged a ship when moving it.

Making a maneuver which you can't quite complete because your ship hits mine, and then spending about a minute jiggling with the pointy out bits hitting my model so it moves away and you now have room to set your base down, and then pretending that you made the maneuver with room to spare and laying down a focus and declaring a range one shot is cheating. Simples. And that's what he did. I apologise if that wasn't clearer before but that was exactly what happened. And as I said, I even said out loud as he was squirming his ship in there to move mine away 'oh, I thought you might have gotten away with that' as in 'oh, bad luck, that didn't quite work out' (because *I* was *trying* to remain sportsmanlike in the face of his extreme D-baggery) and he just flat out ignored the comment, laid down his focus and carried on as if nothing had happened.

I wasn't looking for malice, I saw cheating. Twice. It is not plausible to me (unless you have the memory of a goldfish) to say that in the literally two seconds between me declaring the dice result which you can clearly see on the table and you drawing the damage cards, you have forgotten what I rolled. That isn't reasonable. Maneuvering into someone's ship and then pretending that you haven't isn't reasonable. Accusing someone of bumping an asteroid when they clearly haven't is not reasonable. Telling someone they are acting illegally with their pilot when they are not because you don't understand the rules is not reasonable.

You seem to think that I had a downer on the guy because he used the dice app and then was looking for other reasons to dislike him. In fact, I disliked him from the first moment he opened his mouth because he came accross as a cocky, arrogant rule lawyer who was going to spend the entire game looking for angles. I don't happen to enjoy playing against that type of opponent. He then went on to demonstrate that he was more than willing to cheat to gain an advantage, that he was quite happy making loud and obnoxious comments and accusations and that despite his own cheating, he would be the first to try and cry foul at anything he perceived as going against him.

All of these things make him unlikeable as an opponent. The fact that on top of all this he used a dice app that seemed (when I played him) incapable of rolling anything but hits and focuses just made the situation all the more annoying, and given all the other reasons I had to believe him a cheater (like actually witnessing him cheat twice) the thought occurred that perhaps shenanigans may have been afoot. And my line of thought with those shenanigans ran thusly - Perhaps the app is biased in favour of focus, perhaps he knows this and therefore uses the app (because let's get real here - using an app at a tourney is ODD and dice aren't exactly heavy) so that he can maximise his chances of getting hits. Equally, as I am bored witless of saying, maybe there is that bug in the app and he ISN'T aware and just likes using it. Or maybe there isn't a bug at all and he just had a REALLY lucky streak on his dice against me and my friend. I don't actually care.

I'm at the stage now where I am so bored of talking about the damned app I can't even tell you, and I don't understand why, when I have made it so perfectly clear NUMEROUS times that the app was the very tiniest of my issues, right from the OP onwards, you seem fixated on bringing it up again and again as if it is the lynchpin of my argument and because you have (erroneously) decided that I am accusing him of something with this minor observation then all of my other observations are somehow made up. Because I, a 34 year old man with a wife and work and all sorts of other demands on my time, clearly wouldn't have anything better to do than sit down and make up a load of rubbish about someone I met once at a tourney who i will most likely never encounter again and in spite of whom I actually had a really nice day?

Seriously, I posted it up as a general interest thing. Maybe he's a really nice guy. Maybe he's you, or a really good friend of yours. Who the hell knows or cares? when I played against him, he acted like a tool. In fact, the entire day that I had to be around him he acted like a tool. I can't really say any more than that.

Well in truth I was bored to talk about all of this 2 posts ago, but you keep turning up with ideas that strike *me* as odd.

For instance, why is using the APP at a tourney odd? Perhaps I've decided that my dice suck and I'd rather have a pseudo-random number generator. This is the same reason I don't use my translucent dice at a tournament, I've noticed consistently less than average rolls with them. You do know that you're allowed, as an opponent, to ask that both parties use the APP or the same set of twice, don't you?

I won't continue to play Devil's advocate here. If you had a good time, that's all that matters. Forget the guy.

You do know that you're allowed, as an opponent, to ask that both parties use the APP or the same set of twice, don't you?

I won't continue to play Devil's advocate here. If you had a good time, that's all that matters. Forget the guy.

Nowhere in the Tournament Rules does it state that both parties must be allowed to use the Dice App. It simply must be able to be seen by both players. You are also not required to allow the other player to use your dice.

The only items that must be shared if requested are range and maneuver templates.

Jim

You do know that you're allowed, as an opponent, to ask that both parties use the APP or the same set of twice, don't you?

I won't continue to play Devil's advocate here. If you had a good time, that's all that matters. Forget the guy.

Nowhere in the Tournament Rules does it state that both parties must be allowed to use the Dice App. It simply must be able to be seen by both players. You are also not required to allow the other player to use your dice.

The only items that must be shared if requested are range and maneuver templates.

Jim

I stand corrected. I remembered that this included dice, which would make sense.

If buddy did that to me I'd say in the end after he put his ficus diwn

down

Dude you clearly didn't make that.

You have nudge my ship back while fiddling around.

I don't know how anyone can argue

If I'm lining up a shot and it's borderline close to out of arc and I start accidentally nudging ships I'll often say well I moved it so I'll take that as sort of a penalty.

That should actually be in the tournament rules now that I think of it.

Because really if it is borderline and accident do happen that if a player even though an accident nudges a ship trying to measure then it goes in his opponent favor

So be extra careful not to nudge others ships

You do know that you're allowed, as an opponent, to ask that both parties use the APP or the same set of twice, don't you?

I won't continue to play Devil's advocate here. If you had a good time, that's all that matters. Forget the guy.

Nowhere in the Tournament Rules does it state that both parties must be allowed to use the Dice App. It simply must be able to be seen by both players. You are also not required to allow the other player to use your dice.

The only items that must be shared if requested are range and maneuver templates.

Jim

said otherwise, your opponent has the right to ask you to use dice and you have the right to refuse

I spent money on an official licensed product that personally adds a lot of enjoyment to my games by introducing a gameplay agent that I don't have to go scrambling after or won't knock my models over and is truly "random." I will use it when I **** please for as long as I **** please