At my tournament yesterday I went 3-2. All my wins were 100-0 but I just missed top cut finishing at 9th place. Both of my losses were to falcon lists so I was wondering if anyone had tips of running Vs. falcons with my list.

My List

Chireneau + VI + Dauntless + Rebel Captive + Ysanne + EU + Gunner (65)

Soontir + PTL + RGT + AT + Stealth (35)

First loss (Finished top 4)

Chewi + Pred + Jan Ors + Recon (50)

Han + VI + Recon (50)

In the first few rounds of attacking Chireneau was at 3 hull and Han at 1. After a few lucky dice rolls Han and chewi took out Chireneau without being able to finish Han, with Full health soontir left I was able to take out Han and do a small bit of damage on Chewi before time. So I lost 65 points destroyed to 50. What is the most important thing to do with my list VS. double falcons?

Second loss (Finished top 4)

Han + Title + Pred + CP3O + R2D2 + Engine Upgrade (61)

Tala x3 (13 each)

This game was the worst of the two losses, he was really able to deal damage fast on Chireneau which I couldn't deal back to him, tried doing my engine upgrade Arch dodging from the Talas, but his moves were too solid. He was able to take down Chireneau before I took out his last Tala. With only Soontir left I knew I needed another win and with time running somewhat low I went on the Attack. This did not last too long, he stripped me of my stealth and did a very good job of keeping Soontir in arch so he cleaned up pretty fast. What is the most important thing to do with my list Vs. Han + 3 Zs

Thanks for reading this far! Please comment below your tips and tricks to fly Vs. Falcons!

First, Dauntless. It's not doing you much good unless you are in the habit of crashing your ship on top of others. Unless you're playing Oicunn, that's a habit you should get out of.

A Hull Upgrade might serve you better on Soontir than an SD.

Rebel Captive is nice if you're expecting a lot of Phantoms around, but otherwise those three points might be better spent elsewhere.

I personally really enjoyed Chiraneau, VI, EU, Ysanne and Navigator. It allowed me to really arc dodge Phantoms or to crash into the main threat, thus making sure it couldn't fire on me while I attacked the escorts. Your mileage may vary though.

Target priority is always a tricky choice. Do you go for the quick kills or take out the beast? People will give you different answers but in a two ship list faced with Han and 3 x Tala, I'd go for the Tala's first as well. Removing red dice from my opponent's pool as quickly as possible is a good thing. If I can do that while parked on top of the Falcon, even better.

Against three Tala you need to actually go for the falcon First, but the odds are against you because with two ships it's going to take some time, meanwhile you have the talas picking at you

Take out the talas and your against a full health Han, and your now hurting.

This is why we are starting to see the rise of the swarm

Bbbbz, or xzzzzzz are doing well.

I killed Han last night on vassal in two turns with bbbbz.

Han is very powerful against small ship builds.

With the title, 3p0, r2d2 you have to deal 3-4 dmg a round just to get dmg through.

Han can't deal with large number of ships

I say you have to take out the elephant in the room if you want a fighting chance

I'd say take out fel and put whisper in.

And try for initiative bid. You'll do more dmg

Or find a way to fit in a tie just for blocking and fodder.

Blocking Han makes a world of difference.

No actions means more dmg will get through,

against any large ship you want more attacks than they can fend off. if you cant do that, you want to cancel more damage than they can.

the decimator just cant do that against the falcon.

First, Dauntless. It's not doing you much good unless you are in the habit of crashing your ship on top of others. Unless you're playing Oicunn, that's a habit you should get out of.

A Hull Upgrade might serve you better on Soontir than an SD.

Rebel Captive is nice if you're expecting a lot of Phantoms around, but otherwise those three points might be better spent elsewhere.

I personally really enjoyed Chiraneau, VI, EU, Ysanne and Navigator. It allowed me to really arc dodge Phantoms or to crash into the main threat, thus making sure it couldn't fire on me while I attacked the escorts. Your mileage may vary though.

I'd say take out fel and put whisper in.

And try for initiative bid. You'll do more dmg

Or find a way to fit in a tie just for blocking and fodder.

Blocking Han makes a world of difference.

No actions means more dmg will get through,

Thanks for the list advice but I'm not looking to change my list.

Also @Krynn for a large part of the match Han had no actions due to Rebel Captive.

First, Dauntless. It's not doing you much good unless you are in the habit of crashing your ship on top of others. Unless you're playing Oicunn, that's a habit you should get out of.

A Hull Upgrade might serve you better on Soontir than an SD.

Rebel Captive is nice if you're expecting a lot of Phantoms around, but otherwise those three points might be better spent elsewhere.

I personally really enjoyed Chiraneau, VI, EU, Ysanne and Navigator. It allowed me to really arc dodge Phantoms or to crash into the main threat, thus making sure it couldn't fire on me while I attacked the escorts. Your mileage may vary though.

I'd say take out fel and put whisper in.

And try for initiative bid. You'll do more dmg

Or find a way to fit in a tie just for blocking and fodder.

Blocking Han makes a world of difference.

No actions means more dmg will get through,

Thanks for the list advice but I'm not looking to change my list.

Also @Krynn for a large part of the match Han had no actions due to Rebel Captive.

You are up against a very tanky ship

Fel is awesome, but you do have him in a two ship build.

Three hull and three agility is pretty squishy

Green dice will always fail especially if you roll them enough times.

Eventually your going to roll blanks.

If you are wanting to keep fel and chireaneau, I suggest maybe try squeezing a academy pilot in there maybe.

It's a pretty tough list to fly against a fat Han build.

Just because, you have two ships and to get through Han defense you need to do a lot of dmg

One option.

Kill Han escort and go very defensive until time is called.

Or

Go right for Han.

My strategy is i go for Han.

1 agility, 3po dmg will get through.

Block so he can't get that evade

It's like I said earlier.

If you go for his escorts, three talas for example, your left with a very defensive Han at full health vs whatever you have left, and likely not at your strongest.

Go for Han, you need to kill him fast otherwise his escorts will pick away at you.

Every round you waste the more your going to lose

I find that killing Han with Scum swarms involving A4 Y-wings and Scyks with cannons is pretty effective. He just can't deal with that kind of damage output, especially when you're target locking every turn. With A4 Y-wings you get your main attack, a target lock reroll, an ion turret attack that only has to score one hit to ionize, and then you get another of those with the second Y-wing. Throw in 3 Scyks with Manglers, which allow you to turn hits to crits and reroll all 3 attack dice with target locks at range 3 with no evade bonus, and things look pretty good.

i mean it comes down to the fact that unless you do some crazy crits, you arent gonna beat a fat han with this list most of the time.

lets say he's got the fattie firing on all cylinders. evade token and 3po kill 2 hits. r2-d2 can recover one shield per turn. thats 3 damage. thats half your attack. IF you land all 6 hits in one turn, you're only doing 3 damage a turn. and thats the absolute best case scenario. more likely you'll do on average 4 hits a turn. thats one damage a turn, not counting turns where you are going to whiff an attack.

i'm not usually a "this build can in no way beat this other build" type person, but unless the other guy flies han AGGRESSIVELY stupid, and only takes target locks, yeah, you can beat a fat han as you are right now.

Thanks for the list advice but I'm not looking to change my list.

Unfortunately, that means you'll continue to struggle against Falcon lists. Fundamentally you don't roll enough red dice to kill a double-Falcon list or Falcon + C-3PO reliably.

What I have seen people do, and this may or may not be helpful at all, is try to herd the Falcons into the board edges with repeated blocks - using an agile ship to close the opponent's dials as much as possible while keeping it safe from the Falcon it remains in contact with.

Example:

It would certainly be much more difficult to do that when you have 2 ships instead of 3, but the Decimator being a capable big mover may help you out.

Here's something else to consider. We have entered an entirely new meta thanks to scum. Yesterday I rocked your exact chier fel list with an IG BC list. The reason: mangler + ig88B + FCS = death to ships without shields. The crit generation and multiple shots allow you to savage large and small ships. Fel was one shotted, chienau got reduced to ps 0 on the first crit. It's not so mich as you were flying wrong as your list has now been countered. The steely reign of IG-88 HAS BEGUN MWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!.

Fly more ships.

As said earlier, Swarms are a popular choice against Falcon builds because while your opponent is only generating 2 attacks at 1-2 ships, you'd be dishing out 7 attacks at 1-2 ships. Blow up the Falcon title/C3PO ship first, and the other ship(s) will drop like a rock.

Wipe them out... all of them.

It depends on the type of Han. The new kind of Han with Jan and rec spec or Kyle is vulnerable to stress or bumping. If you can separate the forces at all it goes a long way but that's sort of common sense in x wing. I have no idea how yo beat 3po/r2 Han, theres so much actionless mitigation there, especially in timed rounds, good luck.

The second Han build was specifically designed to kill turret ships like yours. Between R2D2, C3PO and the Falcon title, he can negate a full attack at Range 2-3, and has a pretty good chance at Range 1. With only two attackers, you need to decline initiative so he can't arc-dodge Soontir, and hope you can pump attacks into him. Even with that, you're facing an uphill battle. You are scissors and asking how to beat rock.

The second Han build was specifically designed to kill turret ships like yours. Between R2D2, C3PO and the Falcon title, he can negate a full attack at Range 2-3, and has a pretty good chance at Range 1. With only two attackers, you need to decline initiative so he can't arc-dodge Soontir, and hope you can pump attacks into him. Even with that, you're facing an uphill battle. You are scissors and asking how to beat rock.

It's probably more like scissors trying to beat indestructible scissors.