Yeah it would really suck to have to take multiple X-Wings and keep them in formation to get a fix for them. That's not the case for the A-Wing or the TIE Advanced.

Depends on the range of said ability.

If said 'reverse lone wolf' (buddy) system means you'd need to stay in Range bands 1,2 or 3 it is not all that bad really.

Is putting barrel roll on an X-wing going to change anything? If B-wings are more desirable than X-wings, surely that won't change just by giving the X-wing the barrel roll. It still doesn't have the durability or heavy weapons performance of the B-wing, and the cost is still fairly similar.

I still think the problem is that the B-wing was not designed properly, but I agree that changing the B-wing is a non-starter. It isn't going to happen, and I too think it is a very cool and versatile ship in the game (even if that coolness and versatility makes very little sense regarding what it was originally intended to be). The X-wing's versatility, in my opinion, is rooted in its ability to do a number of things well, but none of them as well as other ships. It's the jack of all trades, master of none, of the Rebel Alliance. Not as fast as an A-wing, nor as agile, not as hard-hitting or with the payload of a B-wing, it's the ship that balances those things to give you the best opportunity for success when facing an unknown threat. Let's face it, if you're going up against TIE interceptors, you want to be flying an A-wing, if you're going up against heavy freighters, you want a B-wing. The X-wing, in the games and the novels and the movies, splits that difference, giving you something that can do any job, albeit not quite as well as a specialist.

The trick then, I think, is improving the versatility of the ship in regard to its ability to take on mission parameters, without necessarily buffing the movement or the armor. So, the ideas looking for a title card to give it some additional abilities I think are the right way to go. That or something regarding the astromechs.

I know the 21 point cost was originally intended to prevent 5 rookies in a list but is that limitation still something FFG wants to continue? If not, why not just a -1 or -2 pt costed astromech? If they still want to limit builds to 4 X-Wings, a "free" 2-3 pt astromech would work.

A "buddy system" title would be fun with or without astromech upgrades but I'm biased because I really enjoy formation flying.

I know the 21 point cost was originally intended to prevent 5 rookies in a list but is that limitation still something FFG wants to continue? If not, why not just a -1 or -2 pt costed astromech? If they still want to limit builds to 4 X-Wings, a "free" 2-3 pt astromech would work.

A "buddy system" title would be fun with or without astromech upgrades but I'm biased because I really enjoy formation flying.

Right, but that would make the already horrifically underused Red Squadron pilot basically unusable.

Who would ever choose 4 ps 4 X-wings over 5 ps 5 x-wings?

Defensible but not perfect.

Agreed, but it's just one of a couple reasons why I think a discount to the modification slot is the way to go.

They've done the discount thing, I don't think they will repeat that.

Honestly, The grip seems to be their durability. FFG, in the past, has recycled cards and abilities in slightly different forms: What about an Autothruster like modification for the X-wing? For 1 or 2 points allow an x-wing to: when defending against an attacker outside your firing arc, change one blank result to an evade result. (I like the name Rear Deflector Shields for this modification)

Not /completely/ in agreement on that ability, but the modification name is absolutely perfect.

Maybe something like inverse HLC, where it filters any incoming crits into hits? Modifying the attack is also more thematic for a shield-concept mod, since Evade results are more towards a representation of totally avoiding fire?

Is putting barrel roll on an X-wing going to change anything? If B-wings are more desirable than X-wings, surely that won't change just by giving the X-wing the barrel roll. It still doesn't have the durability or heavy weapons performance of the B-wing, and the cost is still fairly similar.

it's a start

I'd much rather have boost because auto-thrusters would distinguish them severely but god knows what the repercussions would be. I'd still take A-wings for blocking duty thanks to far reduced cost and a far superior dial.

They've done the discount thing, I don't think they will repeat that.

But they have already repeated it.

They have a discount for A-Wings and a discount for Tie Advanced.

If you are "Fixing" one of the core ships in the game have you lost control of the game as a whole?

Is the "Fix" needed for competitive play?

If you just started playing with the core set would you after one game say, "Hey this X-Wing needs to be fixed"?

I think it might be time for a X-Wing 2.0. Take all the data to date and start with a clean slate.

If you are "Fixing" one of the core ships in the game have you lost control of the game as a whole?

Is the "Fix" needed for competitive play?

If you just started playing with the core set would you after one game say, "Hey this X-Wing needs to be fixed"?

I think it might be time for a X-Wing 2.0. Take all the data to date and start with a clean slate.

2.0 is neither necessary nor desirable.

If you are "Fixing" one of the core ships in the game have you lost control of the game as a whole?

There's no such thing as a "core" ship as in one that's the core of the game itself. All ships are or at least should be equal when normalized for points.

If you are "Fixing" one of the core ships in the game have you lost control of the game as a whole?

Is the "Fix" needed for competitive play?

If you just started playing with the core set would you after one game say, "Hey this X-Wing needs to be fixed"?

I think it might be time for a X-Wing 2.0. Take all the data to date and start with a clean slate.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Pulling it straight from the box you are still playing a wave 1 only game...

I am of the opinion the the xwing is fine honestly...but I know I am a minority around here...one thing I will say though having argued in so many other "fix" threads this one has been incredibly productive and well thought out...I actually kind of like the buddy idea and the discount on the astromechs (there is precedent now)...

Those are good ideas...simply adding boost or barrel roll is both boring and probably won't do much to get it selected over a bwing...

My friend had a good idea earlier, and I agree with it. I've tried to put it into game terms, so apologies if it's long-winded.

"Rogue Squadron Pilot

Title

Free

Receive one stress token. You may then perform a boost or barrel roll in your action phase instead of actions listed on your action bar."

So you get the boost/barrel roll people are clamoring for. It's free so you don't have to spend more points on a ship people already say is over-pointed compared to later waves.

But, it's not so OP that you can PTL off of it and you are still paying a 'cost' to do it.

I think X-Wing 2.0 is happening as we type.

There has been an A-Wing revision, Y-Wing revision, Tie Advanced soon to arrive. There is talk about a rework of ordnance in the near future. When all these changes are complete and the new system is compared to the original game wouldn't we have X-Wing 2.0.

A new rule book with all the changes in one place would be cool.

Titles seem to be the neat way to help out ships. If it's defense that's the issue perhaps something like this:

'Once per Round when you are rolling defense dice if there is an ally with Range Three add one (focus eyeball) to your result.'

I took an idea from the Adv Targeting Computer of adding damage and instead added a Focus to the result. When you know you're you're going to be under fire you bunker down with a focus then when you need it you add the die then spend the focus to avoid the damage. Keeping the added die as a focus instead of an evade makes you also have to work for it with plenty of options within the Rebels to use it as there's one X-wing I can think of that can pass a spent focus to another ally.

Rebels tend to work together against aggressors and support one another. For the cost of the title I'm not sure maybe at least a point?

I think X-Wing 2.0 is happening as we type.

There has been an A-Wing revision, Y-Wing revision, Tie Advanced soon to arrive. There is talk about a rework of ordnance in the near future. When all these changes are complete and the new system is compared to the original game wouldn't we have X-Wing 2.0.

A new rule book with all the changes in one place would be cool.

2.0 would be rules revision rather that rule additions. As it stands, even with all fixes and additional rules, the rules from the core rulebook are still valid.

I think X-Wing 2.0 is happening as we type.

There has been an A-Wing revision, Y-Wing revision, Tie Advanced soon to arrive. There is talk about a rework of ordnance in the near future. When all these changes are complete and the new system is compared to the original game wouldn't we have X-Wing 2.0.

A new rule book with all the changes in one place would be cool.

what's happening is actually the exact opposite of 2.0

rather than a new rule-set, they're just adding more options to the base game (as they have for a long time now...)

I think X-Wing 2.0 is happening as we type.

There has been an A-Wing revision, Y-Wing revision, Tie Advanced soon to arrive. There is talk about a rework of ordnance in the near future. When all these changes are complete and the new system is compared to the original game wouldn't we have X-Wing 2.0.

A new rule book with all the changes in one place would be cool.

We have 2 waves coming in (at least a year more of 1.0). 2.0 is ridiculously speculative and almost absolutely unlikely.

The more I think about the mod idea the more I like it.

Have a title card maybe something like rogue squadron x wing or something. Give it a -3 point value to any modification. So now you can really customize your x wings. Want them more tanky? Take free hull upgrade. Want to push your luck? Take a free stealth. Want to have some reposition options? Pay 1 for an engine upgrade. Now you can outfit your x wings to the mission, won't have to reduce the cost which will let you take 5 of them (I don't see how that's terrible though), and you don't need any buddy requirements.

The more I think about the mod idea the more I like it.

There's any number of things you could do to give the X-Wing the little boost it needs to be on par with the new ships.

A extra hull or an extra shield, a barrel roll or a boost, a extra defense die, ect... Any one thing would be all it needs IMO.

But the problem is, that since the X-Wing is already a bit overpriced, I don't think spending even more points on it it is a good answer, but a discounted mod slot lets you fix it how ever you wish and makes it a lot more versatile ship... which fits the overall theme of the X-Wing in the first place.

I don't necessarily dislike the discounted modification but I'm more partial to a discounted astromech slot. Auto-including a generic R2 makes every pilot better without being OP, free or cheap R2-F2 on Biggs, R2-D2 on Luke, etc. And it's just so thematic!

As far as X-wing 2.0 is concerned, I personally wouldn't have a problem with a major rules revision. There are a lot of things about the game, notably including the way target locks and ordnance work, as well as ship pricing from top to bottom, that could be made substantially better with a new version of the game.

(I won't get into the details of things like the absence of a dice pool mechanism or a consistent structure for handling simultaneous and chained opportunities, but in order to set the game on a secure footing they need to be addressed, too.)

(And, speaking of things I won't really get into, a really radical change in X-wing would involve adopting some of Armada's refinements to the way dice work. Using attack dice only, instead of attack and defense dice, reduces the variance in results and gives the designers correspondingly finer control over power levels. And having different kinds of attack dice allows you to more carefully tune attack power.)

But.

There's an enormous cost involved in releasing X-wing Second Edition, and it's one that FFG probably can't recoup. Given the structure of the game, they'd have to do at least a revised rulebook and a suite of revised ship cards and upgrades (if not ship tokens). That means a great deal of time from designers and playtesters, as well as the logistical problems (and potentially material and shipping costs) of actually getting revisions into players' hands. And the cost for all of that has to be free or very low, or people won't upgrade.

The latter isn't a huge problem if it's Descent or Tannhauser, where each group is typically playing with a single person's set and are either using the old ruleset or the new one. But it's an enormous problem if you're trying to run a game that supports tournament-style play: what happens when someone using the old rules tries to play someone with the new rules?

It's a nightmare from their perspective, and I can't see it happening any time soon--if it ever does.

The more I think about the mod idea the more I like it.

There's any number of things you could do to give the X-Wing the little boost it needs to be on par with the new ships.A extra hull or an extra shield, a barrel roll or a boost, a extra defense die, ect... Any one thing would be all it needs IMO.But the problem is, that since the X-Wing is already a bit overpriced, I don't think spending even more points on it it is a good answer, but a discounted mod slot lets you fix it how ever you wish and makes it a lot more versatile ship... which fits the overall theme of the X-Wing in the first place.

Exactly what I was saying! This seriously might just be the way to go!

as much as I agree with what vorpal is saying in terms of why X-wing 2.0 would be a good idea (especially incorporating some of Armada's incredibly interesting systems, such as "**** green dice" ) I really don't want an X-wing 2.0 yet

And the cost for all of that has to be free or very low, or people won't upgrade.

That is the issue that keeps coming up everytime X-Wing 2.0 comes up.

Sure it would be nice, but how do you actually do it? Myself I'd be willing to spend a few bucks per wave for updated stuff, but no more than that, say $5-10 per wave maybe. But I kinda doubt that FFG is going to make a dime, and would in fact likely lose money if they had to reprint 4-8 copies of every card from wave 1 and sell it for even $10.

The more I think about the mod idea the more I like it.

There's any number of things you could do to give the X-Wing the little boost it needs to be on par with the new ships.A extra hull or an extra shield, a barrel roll or a boost, a extra defense die, ect... Any one thing would be all it needs IMO.But the problem is, that since the X-Wing is already a bit overpriced, I don't think spending even more points on it it is a good answer, but a discounted mod slot lets you fix it how ever you wish and makes it a lot more versatile ship... which fits the overall theme of the X-Wing in the first place.

Exactly what I was saying! This seriously might just be the way to go!

I agree. It also dovetails very nicely with my point about the X-wing having traditionally been the ship that was designed to tackle any mission, while as a base ship it wasn't necessarily designed for any one mission specifically.