Honestly, I don't see why the X-wing has this image of a cumbersome jouster. It's not efficiently stated for it (and the ship that is, B-wing, still has a barrel-roll) and it's billed as a jack of all trades ship. Not sure why it can't get something as simple as a boost/roll

I think the B-wing shouldn't have barrel roll.

Yeah I gotta say the B-Wing having a barrel roll is the biggest issue the T-65 X-Wing is facing as far as playability.

I originally thought the B-Wing having a barrel roll was a clever way of showing the gyroscopic cockpit, but it has introduced a number of issue into the game that tend to favor B-Wings over other high-end rebel fighters. The basic concern is that it makes it too maneuverable. If the B-Wing did not have BR, the X would be more attractive AND the E would have BR and a Systems Slot letting it be unique with the cool Advanced Sensors and BR actions.

Its not like if the B-Wing did not have BR, people would have been up in arms over the fact that it was not there when it came out. In actuality, the cockpit never changes location, the body just moves around it, so its not like rotating it should move the location of the ship the distance that a BR moves you. Plus, at that point in the game, the only rebel ship with a post maneuver action on its bar was the A-Wing.

I'd much rather the B-wing have BR than not. In fact, I wouldn't even touch them if they didn't have it.

BR just makes the game much more enjoyable for me because they're not rigidly glued to their dial. The added flexibility and variety makes them so much more fun to fly than some crappy Bandits, and I wish the X-wing had the same option.

Lacking post maneuver movement isn't really fluffy as much as it is a gameplay drag. We have the Z-95 and Y-wing to fill in those slots, balancing out an absurdly rigid maneuverability with cheapness and select upgrades respectively.

I'm sure (as has been foretold) that the TIE Bomber (which I loved before it was cool) is next in line for a fix.

The hipster gene is strong in this one if he feels the need to tell everybody that he loved the ship before they did...

Might be a region thing though, the Tie Bomber always been cool around here.

I live in Hipster Central. Unfortunately, being portly has not yet become cool, so that I cannot claim that I was an early adopter of the fashionable girth.

In my area, I am the TIE Bomber guy. Nobody else flies it.

X-foils: After shooting the pilot closes the wings and boosts to a better position. Basically a boost that happens after shooting, wich might get the x-wing out of firing arc or into a bump with no shooting back?

You can't boost if it would cause you to overlap. Also, that ability seems a lot like one of the squint pilots' abilities. It's still a neat idea because it incorporates S-foils which we haven't seen yet.

I think a teamwork title like Rogue Squadron is brilliant because it really evokes the feelings of the space battles from the movie. They were all watching out for each other. As for the exact ability, I'll leave that to the designers.

The problem with looking at the movies to determine who gets a barrel roll and who doesn't is that barrel rolls in the game don't work the same way as barrel rolls in real aerial combat. Barrel rolls in air combat maneuvering (vs. pure stunt flying) are used as "lag rolls" or "displacement rolls." The goal of a barrel roll is to utilize the vertical component of your maneuverability to deliberately fly a longer path through the sky without losing airspeed in the process. This is useful in a couple of situations.

For a ship chasing another ship, you can use it to stay behind an enemy who is slower than you are, thusly allowing yourself to take a second pass at him without slowing down to his speed (which is dangerous in aerial combat). Secondly, they're used offensively in the displacement or lag capability, to counteract a tighter-turning but slower opponent. The fast, heavier ship which doesn't turn as well, uses the barrel roll to offset his turn circle to the outside, thereby allowing him to pull lead despite the fact that he doesn't turn as quickly as the opponent. This aspect of the barrel roll is closest to what we see in the game, because it allows you to offset your turn circle.

The third use of a barrel roll is to slow down to force an enemy aircraft to overshoot. If an opponent is making a hard turn against you, pulling lead, you can pull into him hard to set your lift vector towards his six, and then barrel roll in the opposite direction. This causes you to essentially fly around him, letting him spit out beneath you, and you find yourself trading places with him, ending up on his six o'clock. This has always been my favorite go-to defensive maneuver, as most new pilots love to fly HUD BFM, and that gets you killed in a hurry if your opponent knows how to "worm" or to use lag rolls effectively.

For the game, it's two-dimensional, so it will always be a somewhat poor representation of combat in three dimensions. Secondly, it's supposed to be space, which works quite a bit differently from battles in the atmosphere (though in Star Wars this is less so). Also, there is a game balance issue. Moves like boost and barrel rolls give different ships different flavors, which encourage variety in both starfighters and play style. There is no reason an X-wing can't do a barrel roll (or any other ship for that matter), but if it does get a barrel roll, the set-up of the game makes it so that this, in-effect, discourages the use of other ships which have the barrel roll as a proxy for maneuverability.

The proxy for maneuverability aspect is important, because the game uses the same maneuver templates for all the ships (though their dials are different). Practically speaking, however, the templates should be different for the different ships, because they describe a turn circle. Also, practically speaking, the ships like the A-wing and the TIE Fighter, and the TIE Interceptor and the Scyk should have the tightest turn circles. They should, effectively, be able to make white hard 1 turns, and no other ships in the game should be able to make hard 1 turns. The X-wing should be able to make hard 2 turns, as should ships like the Phantom. The Y-wing and B-wing should be able to turn no more tightly than a hard-3 turn, and the Millennium Falcon and large ships should be able to turn no more tightly than say a hard 4 turn.

The reason for this is physics - bigger, heavier ships have more momentum, and therefore their turn circles are larger than smaller, lighter ships. The failure of the game designers to design things in this way makes dogfighting in X-wing very different from dogfighting in reality, or in other tabletop games like Wings of War (which utilizes unique turn circles for each aircraft). In X-wing, you don't typically see turning fights where ships are chasing each other's tails, like you get in real dogfights, or in the movies. The reason for this is that no ship really has an understandable turn circle relative to its maneuvering capability. All ships can, on some level, make turns which cross over the turn circle boundary of other ships, and therefore there is no way to get in on someone's six o'clock and stay there with a turning advantage. Likewise, you can't simply turn hard to defeat an attack.

In my opinion, dials should have been designed such that ships had three levels of turn circle - green, white, and red, and each turn lower than the "ideal" turn circle should be green, the "ideal" should be white, and they should have the option to pull a harder, tighter, "red" turn, but they add stress which means they can't do it more than once. This would be perfect from a dogfighting standpoint, because real aircraft can pull hard to gain angles quickly, but if it is a harder turn than their best sustained turn rate, they bleed off energy, so they can't keep it up for very long, and eventually have to let off below the ideal turn (IE a green maneuver) to get their energy back up. With the green, white, and red system, this would be perfect. So, you could imagine for an X-wing, they should have White 2 banks and turns, Green 3 banks and turns, and Red 1 banks and turns (or maybe just red 1 turns, depending on how strict you want to be). Whereas an A-wing would have White 1 turns and banks, Green 2 turns and banks, green 3 turns and banks, and so on.

If this were the maneuvering set-up for the game, then an argument could be made for giving every ship barrel roll, because then it would be an ability to tactically offset your turn circle to make a better entry on an opponent, or to stay behind an opponent and get a good shot, even if they're a tighter-turning ship than you are. However, as it stands, maneuverability in the game makes no sense and is done by proxy to boost and barrel roll actions, and as such I think those abilities should be limited to the more maneuverable ships to give them that flavor.

How about a 0 point title for rogue squadron that takes away a ships range 3 bonus agility bonus while defending.

I'd much rather the B-wing have BR than not. In fact, I wouldn't even touch them if they didn't have it.

....

That's kind of the point I was making.

And its not like the B wouldn't have the Systems Slot. or the Crew Slot. or the Cannon Slot. So there are still lots of stuff to make it different from the other high end rebel fighters. I think the decision to bring an X, B or E would be more interesting if the BR was not there (and you would see more Xs and Es on the tables).

Now we all know that FFG won't take BR off of a ship, but I think this is one was a miss on their side when you are looking at all the ships side by side rather than in isolation.

To the core question of the thread, I don't really have an answer, but I have seen a fair number of recommendations that seem good. I use to think the X-Wings are fine and just need to be flown differently than the Bs, but I am beginning believe that less and less.

How about a 0 point title for rogue squadron that takes away a ships range 3 bonus agility bonus while defending.

I like that idea, the reverse could also be used....maybe under a different card though "Wraith Squadron" or some other x-wing squadron. That giving squad builders the choice of whether to help the defense or attack side of the X wing. I can't think of any cards that have this kind of effect.

I don't think it needs much to get the X-Wing back in to players thinking. Until recently I much preferred using the X to a B-Wing, gradually starting to get the hang of using them though.

You all realize this is just Ficklegreendice been a Troll right?

He gives 2 craps about game balance. Look at his posts. 99.9% of his posts contain F&^% turrets this, F^%$ing turrets that... blah blah blah. Its WAY over the top.

Ficklegreendice, dude seriously stop being a whiney ******.

The designers have already stated the X-Wing is slated for a "Fix" whatever that may be. No amount of your whining, or trying to dissemble about your interest in game balance will change the upcoming "Fix". I can almost guess you are only Empire in your physical fleet models, with a few others for cards. I have THE WHOLE SET in spades. 3-8 per model in ALL FACTIONS. Perhaps that is why you don't care about game balance, and I and some others seem more concerned.

But as an Empire only bootlicker Homer you should rejoice. The much needed Tie Advanced fix will be soon, Soontir (Who never needed a fix) is now super buffed and phantoms will continue to truly terrorize the tournament scene this wave.

Scum has seriously buffed Empire this wave. The new meta (or soon to be after the Advanced fix) will be Vader, Soontir, and Phantoms.

Check out the newest Scum and Villiany Podcast. They are also predicting this Vader, Soontir, Phantom domination meta.

Find something that actually deserves to be whined about FGD. Or get out the basement and find a date.

You all realize this is just Ficklegreendice been a Troll right?

He gives 2 craps about game balance. Look at his posts. 99.9% of his posts contain F&^% turrets this, F^%$ing turrets that... blah blah blah. Its WAY over the top.

Ficklegreendice, dude seriously stop being a whiney ******.

The designers have already stated the X-Wing is slated for a "Fix" whatever that may be. No amount of your whining, or trying to dissemble about your interest in game balance will change the upcoming "Fix". I can almost guess you are only Empire in your physical fleet models, with a few others for cards. I have THE WHOLE SET in spades. 3-8 per model in ALL FACTIONS. Perhaps that is why you don't care about game balance, and I and some others seem more concerned.

But as an Empire only bootlicker Homer you should rejoice. The much needed Tie Advanced fix will be soon, Soontir (Who never needed a fix) is now super buffed and phantoms will continue to truly terrorize the tournament scene this wave.

Scum has seriously buffed Empire this wave. The new meta (or soon to be after the Advanced fix) will be Vader, Soontir, and Phantoms.

We get it, you want to easy-mode Fat Han and Super Dash all day, doesn't mean your assessment of fgd is anywhere near the money

Learn to bloody fly, kid.

I have seldom flown Han or Dash. I do own 2 of each however.

Again your "Learn to fly comments" are the same weak defensive comments that have no meaning whatsoever.

You and FGD are simple trolls most the time with your comments about "Game Balance". Your really not interested in anything other than Empire.

Can we not destroy a thread with reasonable ideas on the basis of name-calling?

Ficklegreendice created this thread as a trolling attempt.

He is trying to influence opinion on this board and I'm sure hoping to get designers attention to NOT fix any issues with the X-wing.

He is insincere and deserves to be called out on it.

Like Alex said in his interview on Scum and Villiany podcast the X-Wing is getting a "Fix".

when it comes to a 'fix' for the X-Wing I'd expect it in the form of a title that has some point cost associated with it. There's lots of things the title could add and what was added could alter the cost. How about a 4 point title that adds Boost and another Shield token?

Ficklegreendice created this thread as a trolling attempt.

He is trying to influence opinion on this board and I'm sure hoping to get designers attention to NOT fix any issues with the X-wing.

He is insincere and deserves to be called out on it.

Like Alex said in his interview on Scum and Villiany podcast the X-Wing is getting a "Fix".

Whether or not that's true, surely disputing the idea he proposes is a far more reasonable course of action than disputing the relative integrity of the individual in question.

I also have to say that if my turn circle dial advice mentioned in my post were followed, ships wouldn't be needing "fixes" and power creep wouldn't be a thing, because ship turn circles would remain relative to mass and engine power, and thusly new ships wouldn't necessarily be superior to older ships in terms of their capabilities.

I'm really confused as to how my silly thread about X-wings invited such a personal attack on me

honestly, if you want to get at me for being

you should focus on my blatantly biased hate for turrets

I have seldom flown Han or Dash. I do own 2 of each however.

Again your "Learn to fly comments" are the same weak defensive comments that have no meaning whatsoever.

You and FGD are simple trolls most the time with your comments about "Game Balance". Your really not interested in anything other than Empire.

Alright then.

If you will not hear the truth, then there is nothing I can do.

Factually incorrect. My games-per-faction ratio for Reb/Imp/Scum respectively is something like 3:1:2

Ficklegreendice created this thread as a trolling attempt.

He is trying to influence opinion on this board and I'm sure hoping to get designers attention to NOT fix any issues with the X-wing.

He is insincere and deserves to be called out on it.

Like Alex said in his interview on Scum and Villiany podcast the X-Wing is getting a "Fix".

Debatable.

His first bloody post advocates a fix to the X-wing, and you say he wants the exact opposite. Get your eyes checked.

Possibly, but you have nothing but your own opinion on which to base that.

We're all aware.

I just had a random idea, combining both the wish for a boost/barrel roll and the idea of X-wing pilots relying on their buddies:

Rogue Squadron Pilot (Title)

X-wing only

X points?

Requires pilot skill 5 or more

When in range 1-2 of a friendly ship with the same title, you may perform a free boost/barrel roll action. If the action takes you outside of range 2, receive a stress token.

Or:

Same requirements, text reads:

If attacking an enemy ship that has a friendly ship with the same title within its firing arc, you may turn one [blank] to a [hit].

The problem here is that it only helps the named X-wings which are arguably okay. It's the generics which need help. They're outX-winged by B-wings.

X-wings are the ultimate "buddy" ship.

You know I think Sekac just absolutely nailed the whole feel, flavour and fluff of both the faction in general and the X-wing in particular.

And adding a boost to multiple X-wings in close proximity to each other helps to avoid overpowering those X-wings that often show up alone in squads - like a flanking Wedge with EU and LW/OM or Biggs as a back-marking damage sponge amongst a swarm of As Zs and/or Bs

Ooh! That's perfect for one of the more underused X-wing Pilots, Garven Dreis!

Also makes Blaster Turret work on Rebel Y-wings and makes Rebel BTL-A4s better.

Discussed at length in here:
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/129849-the-x-wing-under-fire/

Ooh! That's perfect for one of the more underused X-wing Pilots, Garven Dreis!

Sounds like a great little mech, but I've got slightly mixed feelings about the costings - on the face of it, it sounds just about right as a 2 pointer - but then I think that you could then get 4 viable blaster turret warthogs into a squad for under 100 points.

Then again you probably wouldn't want 4 anyway due to the rather poor maneuvering characteristics and low ps of the generic goldie - plus you are left with 4 points that you can't really do much with. **Edit** correction - loadout + bombs you dummy!

Another consideration is that with this astro you are basically giving any generic x-wing Luke's pilot ability plus a bit for just 2 points - ok you haven't got the ept or the ps, but it still seems very cheap at that price.

Overall I think the costing would be spot on if this was a unique astro as opposed to a generic - otherwise it would have to cost a point or two more

I think the consensus from the thread is that it should be 3 point like the Recon Specialist it emulates.