I can't believe nobody added Dos Gringos to this thread sooner, but here it is:

Armoring the top of the vehicle in such a way seems really hard to do.

It's not that armoring the top of a tank would be so difficult... it's that it would not be cost effective to do so.

As someone who has spent over 20 years as a tanker and qualified on 7 marks of tanks in the US Army, I know a wee bit about the subject. Tank design is all about a compromise between firepower, protection and maneuverability. Pick any two and it is doable. If you want all three, then your costs skyrocket. Tanks cannot be heavily armored all around, without becoming so heavy (and expensive) that maneuverability suffers (essentially, you have made a bunker ). So, you put the armor in the places that are most likely to be hit, ie. the front of your hull and turret, then armor the rest as best you can based on likely threats, weight, cost, etc... So, again, it is not that you cannot armor the top of a tank to withstand an impact from a 30mm DU round... it just is not cost effective to do so.

BTW- the comment about explosive rounds being used against tanks is a bit off. Most tanks are reasonably well protected against HE attacks. HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank ) rounds were very effective verses armor and almost spelled the death-knell of heavy tanks. That is, until the Brits developed CHOBHAM and other "special" composite armors that work very well against HEAT rounds (but is expensive). The Israelis and Soviets developed Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) as a cheaper counter to HEAT rounds. Both types of "special" armor have become quite common (understandably so) among the top tier of tanks world wide. Nowadays, Kinetic energy is the preferred anti-armor munition fired from tanks, whereas top-attack is used by advanced Anti-Tank Guided Missiles(ATGM).

Not that this has much of anything to do with Star Wars

That recoil rumour is INCREDIBLY tiresome. A few mph off the airspeed of the A-10 is not incredibly likely to stall it.

Indeed, however I understand that one of the two russian equivalents to the A-10, the MiG 27, which mounts a similar gun cannot actually fire the gun because it can rip the air frame apart.

EDIT: Conflicting sources on this, however even the most generous source claims that the gun puts extreme stress on the airframe and cannot be fired for long.

What about something like this?

100 points

PILOTS

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Shield Upgrade, “Mangler” Cannon] (24) x 2

Syndicate Thug [Flechette Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (27)

Syndicate Thug [ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (25)

What about something like this?

100 points

PILOTS

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Shield Upgrade, “Mangler” Cannon] (24) x 2

Syndicate Thug [Flechette Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (27)

Syndicate Thug [ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (25)

Similar to what I run, but I drop some upgrades to get three spacers with Manglers instead of 2, and keep the 2 syndicate thugs with ion turrets and A4 upgrade. I guess I'm going by the 'more ships beats more upgrades' line of thinking, though I'm not sure how true that is.

Ok. Sounds fair, but how is that possible? if i remove every upgrade but the ions and manglers i have 14 left. Thats not enough for at mangler scyk?

Ok. Sounds fair, but how is that possible? if i remove every upgrade but the ions and manglers i have 14 left. Thats not enough for at mangler scyk?

By my math, the Syndicate Thug + Ion Turret + A4 = 23 points. Two of them is 46 points. That leaves 54 points. 54 divided by 3 is 18, so you can have 3 18 point ships. Yeah, I've screwed this up. Back to the drawing board. Though you can get 2 manglers with 1 naked. Or you can run 3 flechettes.

Ok. Sounds fair, but how is that possible? if i remove every upgrade but the ions and manglers i have 14 left. Thats not enough for at mangler scyk?

By my math, the Syndicate Thug + Ion Turret + A4 = 23 points. Two of them is 46 points. That leaves 54 points. 54 divided by 3 is 18, so you can have 3 18 point ships. Yeah, I've screwed this up. Back to the drawing board. Though you can get 2 manglers with 1 naked. Or you can run 3 flechettes.

A4 aggromech? (nope it's r4, can't read, you're referring to the title ) The base Thug + Ion is 23 points, aggromech bumps him up to 25 points. It's good value, but imo the Unhinged just opens up the dial to such a degree that I can't imagine BTL without them (or the rebel r2)

You're not the only one who can't read. I apparently played a 106 point squad the other day, blissfully unaware of my sins. No wonder it kicked so much ass

But could this work? the warthogs smash up front and the scycs try to mop up. or is 4 ships simply too few. I mean, its 24 hp and 8 of them are behind ag 3.

100 points

PILOTS

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Shield Upgrade, “Mangler” Cannon] (24) x 2

Syndicate Thug [Flechette Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (27)

Syndicate Thug [ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (25)

But could this work? the warthogs smash up front and the scycs try to mop up. or is 4 ships simply too few. I mean, its 24 hp and 8 of them are behind ag 3.

100 points

PILOTS

Cartel Spacer [“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor, Shield Upgrade, “Mangler” Cannon] (24) x 2

Syndicate Thug [Flechette Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (27)

Syndicate Thug [ion Cannon Turret, R4 Agromech, BTL-A4 Y-Wing] (25)

I think your build is the one I'm going to roll with, now that I've learned how to count. The combination of high-agility cannons and hard-hitting Y-wings is really powerful.

I just placed 3rd in my first ever Store Championship with an all Y-wing Scum list. Syndicate Thug+Unhinged Astromech+Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 x 3 and Kavil+Push the Limit+Engine Upgrade+Blaster Turret+R4 Agromech. Kavil rolling 4 Target Locked dice at range 1-2 every turn was surprisingly effective, and while it was hard to get range 1 in-arc shots with the Thugs, when I did it was absolutely brutal. And the Unhinged Astromechs really opened up the Y-Wing dial and allowed me to ignore stress as I zipped around the board.

in fact can the A-10 still kill any tank in existence with its gun alone? Or did progress made in armor make some of them safe against it?

I have not heard about a tank that could withstand it at least. Armoring the top of the vehicle in such a way seems really hard to do.

It needs different rounds for different situations. If it's purely armor, it uses depleted uranium tipped rounds. Currently there are not any armored vehicles that can completely withstand it. Armor today is primarily designed at stopping explosive rounds, not ones that are purely kinetic. That being said, it's not like the same countermeasures mean nothing--they're just not as effective against kinetic vs explosive.

I thought the depleted uranium rounds were the default?

It might just be me but I always though of Y-Wings being based on TBD Avengers Torpedo Bombers rather than a Actual Bomber. But oh well to each his own.

You're crossing the streams a bit.

Douglas TBD Devastator

Grumman TBF Avenger

Devastator sucked, Avenger rocked. Helldiver sucked the absolute most, but had a sweet name.

Devastator sucked, Avenger rocked. Helldiver sucked the absolute most, but had a sweet name.

I know nothing of aerial history, I'm just imagining a sh*tty airplane with the name "Helldiver" would very appropriate

That plane is the F-8 Crusader, the last of the Gunfighters. I have decals on my car, making it look like a VF-111 F-8 Crusader. So far, I only have the roundels, I'll be adding the shark's mouth and the rising sun tail flash to my trunk next month.

Actually, that may be an A-7 Corsair II, hard to tell at this angle. Nonetheless, cool plane. In fact, the overall shape and the USAF markings make me pretty sure it's the A-7.

I just wanted a visual example as to why I thought "Helldiver" was a funny name for any airplane

Im happy to see all the fighter referencing!

I am embarrassed that it has taken me this long to click on this thread. Y-wings and real-life combat planes? So much to love!

Curtis SB2C Helldiver

And the Douglass SBD Dauntless that the Helldiver attempted to replace.

Seriously, so many teething problems with the SB2C. No wonder its pilots dubbed it the Beast.

I have a new (and legal this time) list:

Syndicate Thug + BTL-A4 Title + Ion Cannon Turret

Syndicate Thug + BTL-A4 Title + Ion Cannon Turret

Serissu + Heavy Scyk + Mangler Cannon

Laetin Ashera + Heavy Scyk + Heavy Laser Cannon

I was thinking they could operate as two pairs, with Serissu and Laetin hanging out at range 3, blasting away with their cannons while the Warthogs move in for the kill. If Laetin and Serissu stick together, it makes for a tough call for the attackers too. Do you go for the one doing the HLC damage, or do you try to take out the one giving an extra green dice to the character who gets an evade token if you miss him?

imo, BTL-A4 really really really really really want a little Unhinged buddy. When you're limited to range 1-2, you really want to go whooshing after the enemy like a crazy person

To that end, I'd drop Mangler from Serissu and just focus on making her a buff bot (or maybe a control ship with flechette to set up other shots). Besides, she is the target of that list. No one in their right mind is going to shoot re-roll Laetin, for example. Best to make her cheaper, imo.

I didn't realize unhinged was just one point. That's a no-brainer!

What about replacing Serissu with Tansarii Point Veteran with VI and mangler cannon? That gives the firepower without an obvious target and then I have two PS7 Scyks and still retain initiative? I'm still not sure if Serissu's ability is worth having her around or not.