I've flown N'Dru a few times now and am not liking him as much as I thought I would. I'm finding his ability hard to trigger. He's not as fast or maneuverable as the ships that I normally use with Lone Wolf. When flying him as a flanker I have a lot of trouble getting him to the fight at the same time as the rest of the squad while still ending up outside of range two from them.

I really want to like him. He's a low cost, high PS pilot, that has the potential to do decent damage. I haven't seen him work as well on the table as he does in the list builder. Smacking VI on him and forgetting about his ability until the opportunity presents it self is almost seeming like the way to go with this guy.

I can't see running him a flanker. If i ever saw someone try to flank with a weak ship like that I'd smear him first. I think the whole point with N'Dru is to sneak him into the late game by keeping him in the rear of your deployment. The later the game goes the better for him. He does need something to help him overcome his horrible dial like DD or EU, but that starts to make him too expensive. Daredevil+Inertial Dampeners tops him out at 21 points and that's a good place to stop with him.

Yeah, I have been thinking he won't be as good as some people expect. I flew against him last night and took him down.

I haven't used him yet but do anticipate needing a strong strategy with him so he doesn't get immediately blasted to pieces.

With Cluster Missiles and Lone Wolf he is clearly a ship you're opponent is going to want to keep tabs on as he alone could really mess someone's day up.

That also means he's stuck at PS7, needing to withstand the attacks of a whole lot of nastiness in some cases with zero support.

I've been wondering if it won't be best to keep him back out of the fight and let him move into position a bit later, foregoing the alpha strike to lurk for the right opportunity.

I like to treat him like a flanking Biggs effect. Give him hull upgrade and he's basically a 20 pt ps7 X-wing that will likely be targeted early, giving you the advantage of flanking with the rest of your list and gaining a positional advantage that way.

Give him VI/Lone Wolf and Cluster Missiles and odds are you'll get them off before he dies, probably making a decent trade in the process.

edit: Just make sure the rest of your ships are fast enough able to close the gap quickly so he doesn't get taken out while they've yet to engage.

He's a huge target, and a cheap one, so it takes skittle work to make him pay off

I like to treat him like a flanking Biggs effect. Give him hull upgrade and he's basically a 20 pt ps7 X-wing that will likely be targeted early, giving you the advantage of flanking with the rest of your list and gaining a positional advantage that way.

Give him VI/Lone Wolf and Cluster Missiles and odds are you'll get them off before he dies, probably making a decent trade in the process.

edit: Just make sure the rest of your ships are fast enough able to close the gap quickly so he doesn't get taken out while they've yet to engage.

This is basically how I see it, particularly with VI. That's the cheapest PS9 pilot in the game at 18 points (along with VI Mithel), which is worth something even if you don't key on his ability. I think you usually split him wide, making him such a great value for the points, if he's ignored he's doing massive damage for the investment, if he's not ignored, he's only 18 points, and with PS9 he'll get his shots in. I think ordnance is a legit use for him, being cheap PS9 and possibly triggering his bonus.

N'Dru owns, but I suppose it boils down to playstyle. I'm extremely comfortable using him, and have seen him get 8 dice cluster missile attacks, and 4 dice turret attacks with hotshot blaster.... so yeah he's pretty sweet as far as I'm concerned.

I really don't see the hype of running him loaded like he's some kind of ace

The man(?) is backstabber 2.0, a very cost efficient and powerful little bugger that the opponent underestimates at their peril.

I like to flank with him after the main body has engaged. I have not yet run him with cluster missles, but do use lone wolf. I can see the potential of cluster but it does paint a big fat target on him. Just adding lone wolf makes him powerful, but not so much so that the enemy will focus on him first. Running him with some bigger hitters like Kavil I have had good success with him so far. he more than pulls his weight. he needs some protection if you are going to live long enough to pull off the cluster though, and then lone wolf does not work as well. I find it easier to use him as a cheap but powerful late flanker as fickle has already said.

I've flown N'Dru a few times now and am not liking him as much as I thought I would. I'm finding his ability hard to trigger. He's not as fast or maneuverable as the ships that I normally use with Lone Wolf. When flying him as a flanker I have a lot of trouble getting him to the fight at the same time as the rest of the squad while still ending up outside of range two from them.

I really want to like him. He's a low cost, high PS pilot, that has the potential to do decent damage. I haven't seen him work as well on the table as he does in the list builder. Smacking VI on him and forgetting about his ability until the opportunity presents it self is almost seeming like the way to go with this guy.

Basically, I agree entirely. If you have the spare points in your list he's a decent upgrade from a Binayre Pirate, but I've tried to run him as a flanker and have had no success. I've tried to run him with other ships (planning to use his ability after the list breaks up), and felt I would have been better off with almost any other Z-95 build.

I've dabbled with him a few times, but he's tricky. Split him out too far, and you're basically giving yourself a weakness on the initial joust because you aren't getting your full list involved. Bring him too close, his ability won't trigger and he's basically a Deadeye Lt. Blount without missiles.

Though he did once manage to joust a Phantom into flying off the board without either of them dealing damage to the other, which is why I will never stop loving him.

Have you guys tried flanking him with a hotshot blaster? Lone wolf? Clusters? He can take a decimator to half in 2 turns of shooting. VI/hotshot/fail safe is a pretty serious flanker. Think about that against a whisper or soontir.

Against a lot of lists he just kind of falls apart, but even loaded up his cost is worth the turn or 2 it takes to kill him.

Have you guys tried flanking him with a hotshot blaster? Lone wolf? Clusters? He can take a decimator to half in 2 turns of shooting.

Almost every post in this thread mentions one of those 3 items, so yes.

I've only used him once and I didn't like him much. He got isolated and crippled. I tried to peel him off and save him for the endgame, but then Boba Fett shot him at range 3 through a rock and killed him.

Basically I didn't like that he limited my choices. I could either benefit from his ability and be restricted in how I flew my squad. Or I could fly how I want/need and have him be an expensive Z95. I like having my options open.

I can't see running him a flanker. If i ever saw someone try to flank with a weak ship like that I'd smear him first. I think the whole point with N'Dru is to sneak him into the late game by keeping him in the rear of your deployment. The later the game goes the better for him. He does need something to help him overcome his horrible dial like DD or EU, but that starts to make him too expensive. Daredevil+Inertial Dampeners tops him out at 21 points and that's a good place to stop with him.

Which means he just Biggsed your whole squad for 17 points, and now all your ships are pointed at him, not the enemy.

Go for a flanker and you turn the rest of the enemy fleet into flankers.

I am beginning to think it would be best to run him without upgrades.

He is cheap and can pack a big punch if your opponent leaves him until the end. So your opponent needs to prioritize him above "last". The cheaper you make him, the more effective he is at doing his job (which is drawing fire from other more expensive ships).

If he flanks me away form the rest of the fleet, depending on what else is out there, there is a good chance, I would ignore him for the initial exchange.

That being said, EPTs, Illicits and Missiles seem really tempting.

BTW any one like design symmetry between S&V and Rebel Zs?

Cracken: Stay by me and I will make you more effective

N'Dru: Stay away from me and I will be more effective

Blount: Even when I miss, I hit (mostly useful with Missiles)

Leachos: Yeah I am not going to miss, but my friend will (a focus and target lock ain't so great for a 2 die attack, but becomes more useful on a 4 die Missile)

The more points you put into a Z 95, the more points you're handing to your enemy and taking away from the rest of your list. It's a 4 health 2 attack ship, it dies just as easily as a 12 point Z 95 and is only slightly more effective.

Everytime I see one of these 20-25 point Z 95's, I kill it right off the bat. Easy points. You'd be better off with 2 12 point ones.

Leeachos' ability is useless and 5 ps is meaningless once everyone goes back to playing phantoms.

Blount is okay for a single shot missile. Cracken is kind of meh, I suppose if you're flying a mini swarm and you have some points left over you could upgrade one to cracken and then hand off the second action to an HLC b wing or named x wing or whatever. I wouldn't sink anymore points into cracken though.

BTW any one like design symmetry between S&V and Rebel Zs?

Cracken: Stay by me and I will make you more effective

N'Dru: Stay away from me and I will be more effective

Blount: Even when I miss, I hit (mostly useful with Missiles)

Leachos: Yeah I am not going to miss, but my friend will (a focus and target lock ain't so great for a 2 die attack, but becomes more useful on a 4 die Missile)

The HWKs have the same sort of symmetry:

Roark: Hey good Buddy, why don't you shoot first?

Mux: Hey jerk, shoot last.

Kyle Katarn: Here have a token.

Palob: Give me that token.

Jan: Yay! Extra damage.

Dace: Yay! Extra Damage.

If you compare Drea and Dutch it looks like the Y-Wings have the same deal going on but I can't see how Horton and Kavil line up.

Tried him but he is in a slow ship so he could remain out of combat longer than you want, in the end I just wished I'd taken a generic.

If you compare Drea and Dutch it looks like the Y-Wings have the same deal going on but I can't see how Horton and Kavil line up.

They both have geometry-dependent attack buffs. Salm's buff is actually a bit stronger, or would be if there were a turret that lined up better with his range preferences.

BTW any one like design symmetry between S&V and Rebel Zs?

Cracken: Stay by me and I will make you more effective

N'Dru: Stay away from me and I will be more effective

Blount: Even when I miss, I hit (mostly useful with Missiles)

Leachos: Yeah I am not going to miss, but my friend will (a focus and target lock ain't so great for a 2 die attack, but becomes more useful on a 4 die Missile)

Yeah there's definitely some ***-for-tat there. I'm not totally certain that N'Dru's ability is equal to Craken, since Airen's ability for sure will be used more often and has multiple applications. Blount's ability wasn't as good as it sounded, but I'm not all jazzed about Leachos either. I think Leech will settle into the meta as a bodyguard for Moldy Palob. That's an ideal spot for him since he's not threatening in the slightest, and can give a tiny bit of aid to Palob who will certainly be taking a lot of fire.

Try him out with a Concussion or an Assault missile for extra fun. Im actually liking that better than Cluster Missiles on him, as 5 dice ordinance at Range 3 gives him that long range Punch.

BTW any one like design symmetry between S&V and Rebel Zs?

Cracken: Stay by me and I will make you more effective

N'Dru: Stay away from me and I will be more effective

Blount: Even when I miss, I hit (mostly useful with Missiles)

Leachos: Yeah I am not going to miss, but my friend will (a focus and target lock ain't so great for a 2 die attack, but becomes more useful on a 4 die Missile)

Yeah there's definitely some ***-for-tat there. I'm not totally certain that N'Dru's ability is equal to Craken, since Airen's ability for sure will be used more often and has multiple applications. Blount's ability wasn't as good as it sounded, but I'm not all jazzed about Leachos either. I think Leech will settle into the meta as a bodyguard for Moldy Palob. That's an ideal spot for him since he's not threatening in the slightest, and can give a tiny bit of aid to Palob who will certainly be taking a lot of fire.

Oh yeah agreed, Cracken lets you do crazy stuff that's not possible otherwise. I am not saying they have equal utility, I am saying they have (a)symmetry.

I love having my B-Wing touch Whisper so Whisper can't shoot him, then on PS8, I have the B-Wing barrel roll off and take a shot at PS 2 at range 1.

But getting on Cracken, even him, I usually just fly with Swarm Tactics (21 pts, which is a lot, but two shot at PS8 and an extra action is not bad and shaves 3 pts off of 2 Bandits). He has some great symmetry with Cluster Missiles too, but then you are getting into 23-25 points, which is definitely in line with the cost of 2 Bandits.

Maybe the key is N'Dru with Lone Wolf coming from the side and let the enemy make the hard decision is the right play, not bad for 19. His ability is like bombs. Realistically you never get to use it, but thats because your opponent is altering their behavior to ensure you can't.

Complicating the issue is the Illict Slot. Based on the Pilot Skill and cost of the ships, I can only surmise that FFG decided to charge a 1 Pt surcharge on ships with illicit (the Virago title also supports this). This would indicate that they also discounted all the illicit upgrades by 1 point as well (compared to if it was a Modification or a Missile/Torp, someone should figure out how much a Torpedeo with HSB abilities should cost to compare to HSB, I imagine it would be more than 3 pts). As a result, if you are flying a ship with an illict slot and no upgrade, you are wasting a point. Now wasting 1 point may not be a big deal, but my gut says to get the most out of the points I spent, I really should spend additional points.

Scum and Villainy really gives us some hard choices.

BTW any one like design symmetry between S&V and Rebel Zs?

Cracken: Stay by me and I will make you more effective

N'Dru: Stay away from me and I will be more effective

Blount: Even when I miss, I hit (mostly useful with Missiles)

Leachos: Yeah I am not going to miss, but my friend will (a focus and target lock ain't so great for a 2 die attack, but becomes more useful on a 4 die Missile)

Yeah there's definitely some ***-for-tat there. I'm not totally certain that N'Dru's ability is equal to Craken, since Airen's ability for sure will be used more often and has multiple applications. Blount's ability wasn't as good as it sounded, but I'm not all jazzed about Leachos either. I think Leech will settle into the meta as a bodyguard for Moldy Palob. That's an ideal spot for him since he's not threatening in the slightest, and can give a tiny bit of aid to Palob who will certainly be taking a lot of fire.

Yeah, I've been having trouble envisioning a role for Leeachos, and this is about the closest I've come. Give him Bodyguard, send him out alongside a HWK/Firespray with Recon Specialist, and it's almost like paying 14 points for a generic PS5 Headhunter and another 3 points for your RecSpec ship to have an agility-boosting ability.

Bodyguard can also improve Proton Rocket shots or balance out the drawback of Expose, so those would be other pairings to consider.

. I think Leech will settle into the meta as a bodyguard for Moldy Palob. That's an ideal spot for him since he's not threatening in the slightest, and can give a tiny bit of aid to Palob who will certainly be taking a lot of fire.

Unfortunately, that locks Palob into taking VI as his EPT. That's 18 points to protect Palob (Leechos + Bodyguard + VI) spent to protect Palob. It costs Palob a Focus Token and every round the protection. Compare that to 20 points for Serissu. I'm not sure of the math but I think I'd rather have 2 Defense dice with a reroll and a Focus than 3 defense dice.

Now if you're serious about protecting Palob you could take Leechos with Body Guard and Serissu with Decoy. That leaves Palob's EPT free and gives you 41 points to spend on upgrades and other ships. Depending on who it looks like the target is going to be Leechos can Bodyguard either Serissu or Palob.