Fantastic! Thanks for the gen!

I guess we still don't know the exact details of Tycho's dice situation yet. Somehow I have a feeling his dice will be favorable for fighting off capital ships slightly better than the normal A-Wing squads, and if not he'll be that much more effective against fighters instead.

We will need to check though whether fighters ignore "crits", or ignore "any dice showing a crit". That would change things a lot, dropping the A-Wing to 50%.

Based on the 'Fighters coming in Preview' I would say that they ignore any die showing a crit. It says that 'you ignore all critical results'. Furthermore, the X-wings Bomber ability is that if they roll a critical facing, they deal 1 damage and a critical effect. So the wording seems to imply that you ignore all critical results, but an X-wing allows you to get the same benefit from rolling that.

Second, if you watch the TeamCovenant demo on youtube, the FFG staff says that criticals only matter when shooting at ships, not squadrons (15:10). Then at 15:33 the player rolls a hit and a critical against a squadron and the FFG staff says 'that's one hit'.

In conclusion: A critical hit is considered just that, a critical hit. It's not the same as a base 'hit'. They are completely different.

Thoughts?

Direct quote from the LtP booklet:

"Squadrons suffer damage equal to the number of hit [Hit] icons only, they ignore critical [Crit] icons"

And regarding the Bomber keyword:

"[bomber]: While attacking a ship, each of your [Crit] icons adds 1 damage to the damage total and you can resolve a critical effect. "

The wording of Critical Effect in the Rules Reference:

"The standard critical effect is '[Crit]: If the defender is dealt at least one damage by this Attack, deal the FIRST (my emphasis) damage card face up' "

So you can only cause 1 critical effect ie. 1 face up damage card per attack

So when the A wing rolls a black dice face showing a hit AND a critical hit result, it would apply the hit result but discard the crit result then - as suspected

Oh yeah, I never thought the hit + crit didn't work. I made a rookie mistake and replied directly to that post, realizing that black had only hit+crits after. Maverick even pointed that out in the next post. :/ Sorry for the confusion. A-wing does have 75% chance of scoring a hit.

Here it is:

Black Dice:

4 x Hit

2 x Hit&Crit

2 x Blank

Red Dice:

2 x Hit

1 x Double Hit

2 x Crit

1 x Precision

2 x Blank

Blue Dice:

4 x Hit

2 x Crit

2 x Precision

Been waiting for this. Time to start coding a Monte Carlo simulation. I'll be posting the Excel/VBA code once it's complete.

It's pretty clear and plain the rules. Page 13.

"Squadrons can use all the colors of dice at range 1 but they ignore critical hit icons WHEN ATTACKING.

And regarding the Bomber keyword:

"[bomber]: While attacking a ship, each of your [Crit] icons adds 1 damage to the damage total and you can resolve a critical effect. "

The wording of Critical Effect in the Rules Reference:

"The standard critical effect is '[Crit]: If the defender is dealt at least one damage by this Attack, deal the FIRST (my emphasis) damage card face up' "

So you can only cause 1 critical effect ie. 1 face up damage card per attack

And regarding the Bomber keyword:

"[bomber]: While attacking a ship, each of your [Crit] icons adds 1 damage to the damage total and you can resolve a critical effect. "

The wording of Critical Effect in the Rules Reference:

"The standard critical effect is '[Crit]: If the defender is dealt at least one damage by this Attack, deal the FIRST (my emphasis) damage card face up' "

So you can only cause 1 critical effect ie. 1 face up damage card per attack

You can deal multiple Crits. The first card you deal has to be face up. After that you do it in any order you wish.

You can deal multiple Crits. The first card you deal has to be face up. After that you do it in any order you wish.

I'm not really sure what you're responding to here, but the rules are clear that you may only resolve one critical effect per attack; additional crits rolled on that attack add damage, but do not trigger additional effects.

You can deal multiple Crits. The first card you deal has to be face up. After that you do it in any order you wish.

I'm not really sure what you're responding to here, but the rules are clear that you may only resolve one critical effect per attack; additional crits rolled on that attack add damage, but do not trigger additional effects.

Here is the problem with that (will prob need an faq clarification)

Page 13 states "Critical: For EACH critical rolled, if the attacker and defender are both ships, the defender suffers one damage and the first damage card dealt is dealt face up."

Each crit rolled. I'm not doubting if you guys are right, it just seems conflicting as well as it kinda makes criticals a bit weak, especially if you get an amazing hit with all crits.

You can deal multiple Crits. The first card you deal has to be face up. After that you do it in any order you wish.

I'm not really sure what you're responding to here, but the rules are clear that you may only resolve one critical effect per attack; additional crits rolled on that attack add damage, but do not trigger additional effects.

Here is the problem with that (will prob need an faq clarification)

Page 13 states "Critical: For EACH critical rolled, if the attacker and defender are both ships, the defender suffers one damage and the first damage card dealt is dealt face up."

Each crit rolled. I'm not doubting if you guys are right, it just seems conflicting as well as it kinda makes criticals a bit weak, especially if you get an amazing hit with all crits.

You are mostly correct in your reading, because each critical deals one damage. In addition to that one damage per critical, the effect resolves of drawing the first damage card face up out of any damage cards that are actually dealt to that ship on this attack. If we want to get technical, the first card is still the first card, no matter how many cards are drawn. Once we get past the learn to play rules we get additional clarification on how crits work, in that each crit between ships is still one damage, and any attack which contains a crit has the option to activate a critical effect. The default effect that every ship is implied to have is that the first card out of any damage cards dealt is dealt face up, but upgrades allow some ships to choose a different effect instead of the default if they would like to.

Your quote has the answer in it though.

For each crit rolled, we do two things if the attacker and defender are both ships:
1. suffer one damage
2. the first damage card is dealt face up

No matter how many crits there are, there is only one first damage card dealt. You just rolled a zillion crits? That's fine, there's still only one FIRST damage card.

pg 4 of rules reference:

A critical effect, denoted by the “Crit:” header, can resolve if
there is at least one Crit icon in the attack pool.
• The attacker can resolve only one critical effect per
attack.
• The attacker does not spend a die icon to resolve a
critical effect unless the effect says otherwise.
• Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve
Damage” step of an attack.
• The standard critical effect is “Crit: If the defender is
dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the
first damage card faceup.”
• Squadrons cannot resolve or suffer critical effects unless
otherwise specified.

From pg 2 of rules reference:

Resolve Damage: The attacker can resolve one of its
critical effects. Then the attacker determines the total
damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull
zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time.

◊◊ If the attacker or defender is a squadron, the damage
is the sum of all Hit icons.
◊◊ If the attacker and defender are ships, the damage is
the sum of all Hit and Crit icons.
◊◊ Each ship has the following standard critical effect:
“Crit: If the defender is dealt at least one damage card
by this attack, deal the first damage card faceup.”

So, just to clarify. Are critical hits worth any damage?

Examples: (Both attacker and defender are ships)

I have 1 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

and another

I have 2 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

So, just to clarify. Are critical hits worth any damage?

Examples: (Both attacker and defender are ships)

I have 1 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

and another

I have 2 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

Crits count as damage in ship to ship combat.

Crits count as damage if dealt from a BOMBER fighter to a ship.

Crits don't count against starfighters.

Your examples are wrong, with 1 crit and 2 hits, you'd deal 3 damage cards, the first of which was face up.

With 2 crits and 2 hits, you'd deal four damage cards, the first of which was face up.

So, just to clarify. Are critical hits worth any damage?

Examples: (Both attacker and defender are ships)

I have 1 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

and another

I have 2 crit and 2 hits, the 1st damage card is dealt face up and the 2nd face down. No additional cards dealt.

Crits count as damage in ship to ship combat.

Crits count as damage if dealt from a BOMBER fighter to a ship.

Crits don't count against starfighters.

Your examples are wrong, with 1 crit and 2 hits, you'd deal 3 damage cards, the first of which was face up.

With 2 crits and 2 hits, you'd deal four damage cards, the first of which was face up.

This is correct.

So could a Rebe fleet field all A-wings, some interceptors and some attacking ships?

So could a Rebe fleet field all A-wings, some interceptors and some attacking ships?

In a 300 point list, the max you can have is 100 points of fighter squadrons. But yeah, those 100 points could conceivably all be A-wings or TIE Interceptors (for the Imps).

Sorry, I should have been more specific. From the thread it was unclear, could A-wings make meaningful anti-ship contributions with their black die but non-critable attacks?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. From the thread it was unclear, could A-wings make meaningful anti-ship contributions with their black die but non-critable attacks?

Just don't add them to your fleet with the intention of them being an Anti-Ship choice.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. From the thread it was unclear, could A-wings make meaningful anti-ship contributions with their black die but non-critable attacks?

Yes, 75% chance of damage per attack is pretty decent. It is distinctly not their primary role but 5+ Awings would still hurt a lot if they had no squadrons to shoot and a just ships.

They can do damage but no crits.

People forget about the double hit from red dice or bomber.

A-wings are the worst at dealing damage to capital ships from Rebel squadrons, their average hits per attack are 0.75

Xwings have 63% to get a hit result, but they also have a double hit result, at the end, they have 0.75 hits per attacks on average.

Ywings and their black dice have 4 hit results, 2 hit+crit, and 2 blanks, this gives them a special edge, since being able to get the double damage results are quite important, and the crit is just icing the cake, on average hits, they have 1.0 average hits.

Bwings, well i guess there is no debate. 0.75 average hits from blue + 1 average hits from black, allows them for 1.75 hits per attack.

Of course, this makes Xwings be on par with Awings when dealing damage to capital, but they have the ability to get crits, which are hardly something to scoff at. Anyways, they are also more expensive, but they can fulfill other roles (escorting your real capital ship damage dealers).

In my opinion, people are grossly overestimating interceptors and Awings, a Xwing + Bwing formation can deal way more damage to capital ships and have an easier time to survive, and if you include Gallant Haven nearby, you practically will laugh at Interceptor/Awings counter's rule, not to speak about their damage output vs your hull points.

Mobility is nice, but fighters shouldn't ever fight in isolation from their capital ships, because they are very vulnerable to Antisquadron fire, specially those with 3/4 hull points, that can get weakened and even killed by crossed fire from a few capital ships, completely crippling them.