Been playing with my new toys and really like the synergy between outmaneuver and autothrusters but not sure if I'm not hamstringing myself by not running Predator or PTL instead ... thoughts?
currently:
Iggy BOOM!
IG (B): Outmaneuver, Seismic Charge, Adv S, Mangler, and AT
IG ©: same
Been playing with my new toys and really like the synergy between outmaneuver and autothrusters but not sure if I'm not hamstringing myself by not running Predator or PTL instead ... thoughts?
currently:
Iggy BOOM!
IG (B): Outmaneuver, Seismic Charge, Adv S, Mangler, and AT
IG ©: same
I'm trying to say this consistently in response to people running dual Aggressors, although there are just too many to keep up: dual Aggressors, just like dual Firesprays, need a third ship. It's partly that it changes the way your opponent looks at the board, but it's mostly that even just a Headhunter pads out your list's offense and defense pretty substantially.
It's like the difference between a list with 5 TIE fighters and 6 TIE fighters: you have to be good to win with 6, but you have to be both good and really, really lucky to win with 5. Same deal here.
So I know your question is specifically about Outmaneuver versus Predator or Push the Limit, but I think you're hamstringing yourself by adding so many points in upgrades. I'd strip out all the upgrades, add something like Tansarii Point Veteran + Bodyguard, and then build back up with whatever you can afford.
And personally, if you end up able to afford it, I lean toward Predator. 
I would say IGs NEED to be run with Advanced Sensors and PTL. Getting 2 actions, and clearing stress from PTL while being blocked is pretty powerful.
Yesterday I ran:
IG C & D with PTL, Advanced Sensors, Autothrusters, Title
Binayre Pilot
100pts
I wanted to try and fit a third ship in there. PTL, Sensors, and Autothrusters are auto includes, which only leaves 12pts. Worked pretty well. I did miss cannons and IG B's gunner effect...but the Binayre did some good blocking, it was also ignored in the beginning. I probably would not include the Z in a tournament as that would be some easy points to lose.
I think you've narrowed it down to the best 3 EPTs (although there are others that could be utilized effectively, I believe). So I think you just need to try it out and see how it goes. I think you can only theory-craft so much more. Now you just have to get out there and fly it!
I'm trying to say this consistently in response to people running dual Aggressors, although there are just too many to keep up: dual Aggressors, just like dual Firesprays, need a third ship. It's partly that it changes the way your opponent looks at the board, but it's mostly that even just a Headhunter pads out your list's offense and defense pretty substantially.Been playing with my new toys and really like the synergy between outmaneuver and autothrusters but not sure if I'm not hamstringing myself by not running Predator or PTL instead ... thoughts?
currently:
Iggy BOOM!
IG (B): Outmaneuver, Seismic Charge, Adv S, Mangler, and AT
IG ©: same
It's like the difference between a list with 5 TIE fighters and 6 TIE fighters: you have to be good to win with 6, but you have to be both good and really, really lucky to win with 5. Same deal here.
So I know your question is specifically about Outmaneuver versus Predator or Push the Limit, but I think you're hamstringing yourself by adding so many points in upgrades. I'd strip out all the upgrades, add something like Tansarii Point Veteran + Bodyguard, and then build back up with whatever you can afford.
And personally, if you end up able to afford it, I lean toward Predator.
Now yes while they are good, problem is, you lose one it's a big blow.
So after reading your comment I came up with this
Ig88 C/D
Predator
Autothrusters
Title
Advanced Sensors
Binayre pilot
Predator gives you a small boost to your offense
Allowing you if needed to boost and use C ability.
Autothrusters helps against turret and range three shots
I been thinking about using D, because some games I did wish I had a three turn
They don't have a three turn on their dial, so this also helps that.
With advance sensors they become a little more unpredictable, and then the Binayre pilot just to be extra fodder,blocker
Actually I just came up with this. Which I think I like better.
Ig88 C
Wingman
Advanced Sensors
Title
Ig88D
Ptl
Advanced sensors
Title
Kaa'to leeachos
Bodyguard
Little trick, but have to keep the z95 close To D, and c stays behind him D.
D can ptl for the focus and evade.
He's more on the front line
Z95 gives him a extra evade dice.
C clears D stress at the start of combat.
Big important thing is keepingb the z95 close to both incase C actually becomes your opponent main target
As for the op original question.
If you run advanced sensors ptl is pretty awesome sauce
Predator can also work quite well with advanced sensors
There is one drawback to ptl and as combo.
Once you decide to kturn It takes a extra round of readjustment to get back in the groove again
You'll not want to ptl the round in which you clear your stress, so you can use Advanced sensors again in the next round
Edited by Krynn007
I've ran duel Ig88 B and C done very well with ptl,fire control systems, autothrusters, title,and hhlc.
I'm trying to say this consistently in response to people running dual Aggressors, although there are just too many to keep up: dual Aggressors, just like dual Firesprays, need a third ship. It's partly that it changes the way your opponent looks at the board, but it's mostly that even just a Headhunter pads out your list's offense and defense pretty substantially.Been playing with my new toys and really like the synergy between outmaneuver and autothrusters but not sure if I'm not hamstringing myself by not running Predator or PTL instead ... thoughts?
currently:
Iggy BOOM!
IG (B): Outmaneuver, Seismic Charge, Adv S, Mangler, and AT
IG ©: same
It's like the difference between a list with 5 TIE fighters and 6 TIE fighters: you have to be good to win with 6, but you have to be both good and really, really lucky to win with 5. Same deal here.
So I know your question is specifically about Outmaneuver versus Predator or Push the Limit, but I think you're hamstringing yourself by adding so many points in upgrades. I'd strip out all the upgrades, add something like Tansarii Point Veteran + Bodyguard, and then build back up with whatever you can afford.
And personally, if you end up able to afford it, I lean toward Predator.
Now yes while they are good, problem is, you lose one it's a big blow.
So after reading your comment I came up with this
Ig88 C/D
Predator
Autothrusters
Title
Advanced Sensors
Binayre pilot
Predator gives you a small boost to your offense
Allowing you if needed to boost and use C ability.
Autothrusters helps against turret and range three shots
I been thinking about using D, because some games I did wish I had a three turn
They don't have a three turn on their dial, so this also helps that.
With advance sensors they become a little more unpredictable, and then the Binayre pilot just to be extra fodder,blocker
Actually I just came up with this. Which I think I like better.
Ig88 C
Wingman
Advanced Sensors
Title
Ig88D
Ptl
Advanced sensors
Title
Kaa'to leeachos
Bodyguard
Little trick, but have to keep the z95 close To D, and c stays behind him D.
D can ptl for the focus and evade.
He's more on the front line
Z95 gives him a extra evade dice.
C clears D stress at the start of combat.
Big important thing is keepingb the z95 close to both incase C actually becomes your opponent main target
As for the op original question.
If you run advanced sensors ptl is pretty awesome sauce
Predator can also work quite well with advanced sensors
There is one drawback to ptl and as combo.
Once you decide to kturn It takes a extra round of readjustment to get back in the groove again
You'll not want to ptl the round in which you clear your stress, so you can use Advanced sensors again in the next round
My big worry with big base ships is relying on a strategy that would mean you'd have to keep them close to each other. Part of the IG2000 strength is its crazy maneuvers and if you lose that unpredictability then I think you are hurting yourself.
I like the idea of running with a pirate and running the Iggy's without a cannon would make B's power useless so the C/D with PTL, AdvS, AT and title
Enough theory craft time to go fly a couple games!!!
I've really enjoyed Stay On Target combined with IGG88-D.
So here's my idea for a dual-aggressor, and I'm curious what you think.
IG-88C + IG-2000 + VI + Inertial Dampeners = 38
IG-88D + IG-2000 + VI + Inertial Dampeners = 38
Torkil Mux + Ion Turret =24
It's pretty pared down, but Torkil might help take down phantoms and some maneuverability surprises could be helpful here.
For the first try with a Scum list, I ran C and D tonight, massively overloaded with upgrades - each with PtL, AdvS, Hotshot Blaster, AutoT, Ion Cannon and title. So 50pts each. First whoops.
I was up against a list of 3 Blues with Tactican and a Y with R3A2. Second whoops.
I flew them too close together, which was a killer mistake. The Bs or Y would light up one of the IG with double or triple stress one turn, then do it to the other one the next turn. I'm in full agreement that I should have started them on opposite edges of my side of the map, or at least with a large gap between them. As they were so close, it was easy for the Bs to switch up. The were also overloaded with upgrades, and more than once I was wishing I had a Z or M3 to be a pest to the B/Y combo.
Well I just tested my list against a friend's scum lists and I squeaked out wins thanks to friendly green dice, but I think I need more in the way of dice modification for IG-88. The unexpected maneuvers are great, but the distance covered by the ship meant I was segnoring a lot more than I expected so took a bunch of shots with nothing but a stress token. If his first list hadn't had two HWKs in it, I might have died hard. Predator would help a lot, so I'm not sure there's a good way to put Torkil in there unless you just give up on everything but his ability and either give him nothing or an autoblaster turret. Either way, if you're flying the IGs with enough evasion, or not just ramming straight into the enemy, Torkil's going to eat a lot of shots early and die. He'll still be a good phantom-killer, but I just don't know how to make this work. The thing I know for sure about IG-88 is that painting the stripes on one of them orange was a good decision.
I think the next list is still C and D, but with Predator, Autothrusters, and FCS on both, and then a lone Binarye Pirate with a Feedback Array. As much as I'd love to try this at next week's Store Championship, the Soontir/Carnor/Echo please-one-shot-me list is too much fun.
Edited by PenguinBonaparteI think running two ig88s loaded out with upgrades is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure they pack enough punch. I don't think throwing in a z95 as another warm body is the correct answer always.
For some reason I see a whole lot of ig88 lists that shy away from running dual hlc, but if you're running two ships, I would think you want them both always throwing 4 dice.
I also think enhanced scopes is an incredibly strong system upgrade here, as running two large base ships, there's a lot of concern about bumping, but if you more first, you dodge that problem that ps6 normally runs into. From there, either predator to get free rerolls, ptl, since the action economy is sweet, or vi to try to both move first and shoot first.
I think running two ig88s loaded out with upgrades is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure they pack enough punch. I don't think throwing in a z95 as another warm body is the correct answer always.
For some reason I see a whole lot of ig88 lists that shy away from running dual hlc, but if you're running two ships, I would think you want them both always throwing 4 dice.
I also think enhanced scopes is an incredibly strong system upgrade here, as running two large base ships, there's a lot of concern about bumping, but if you more first, you dodge that problem that ps6 normally runs into. From there, either predator to get free rerolls, ptl, since the action economy is sweet, or vi to try to both move first and shoot first.
Enhanced Scopes is situational, but could be useful. I think advanced sensors or FCS are better overall though.
The decision to put HLC on these guys depends on which ones you're taking. If you take 'B', then you don't want the HLC due to the lack of shot @ range 1 (unless you have a 2nd cannon, I suppose). If you take any of the others without 'B' in the list, then yeah, HLC makes sense, but if you are equipping two aggressors the same, that would be 14 points....which is tough to fit in given all the other great goodies they have access to.
I think running two ig88s loaded out with upgrades is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure they pack enough punch. I don't think throwing in a z95 as another warm body is the correct answer always.
You're right, of course: sometimes the extra warm body will be a HWK or Scyk.
I think running two ig88s loaded out with upgrades is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure they pack enough punch. I don't think throwing in a z95 as another warm body is the correct answer always.
You're right, of course: sometimes the extra warm body will be a HWK or Scyk.
The only problem I have with including a third ship in a Dual IG build is that it is not pure anymore.
It looks like they're being followed by the village idiot and they just can't get rid of him...
I think running two ig88s loaded out with upgrades is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure they pack enough punch. I don't think throwing in a z95 as another warm body is the correct answer always.
For some reason I see a whole lot of ig88 lists that shy away from running dual hlc, but if you're running two ships, I would think you want them both always throwing 4 dice.
I also think enhanced scopes is an incredibly strong system upgrade here, as running two large base ships, there's a lot of concern about bumping, but if you more first, you dodge that problem that ps6 normally runs into. From there, either predator to get free rerolls, ptl, since the action economy is sweet, or vi to try to both move first and shoot first.
Enhanced scopes certainly warrants play testing. Being blocked is my highest concern so the options appear to me to be enhanced scopes or stay on target. PTL and enhanced scopes will be my next attempt I think.
I don't see anyone needing to run anything in addition to 2 aggressors. The buggers are exceedingly durable and mobile, to the point that their only real weakness is the skill of the player running them (so, they're not turrets ). These buggers are hard to fly unless you have a lot of experience, but they're also not really glass cannons between 3 green dice, auto-thrusters, evade/focus etc.
Couple things I've experienced running against them:
1.) stress is no bueno. PTL is a godsend for taking focus + evade, but god knows how long it'll take your aggressor to re-join the fight if you don't de-stress with sensors.
2.) you don't need anything apart from their cannons and IG-88B to be terrifying in the offense department
3.) Adv S is doing it right. It should be the first upgrade you get (before even the title )
Predator might not be a bad idea for consistency, and it might pair really well with the mangler since it can't push the dice like HLC can but between re-rolls and IG-88B it could well punch through Whisper. Outmanuever might be a bit overkill, imo. I'll take predator's consistency any day.
Proximity bombs and advanced sensors seem like an excellent combo, especially to combat pesky arc Dodgers
In fact no other ship can do that - nice!
+1 to the Predator vote. Push is more hurtful than helpful thanks to the stress. Predator makes up for it with rerolls, especially if we start seeing low-skill pilots come back to the meta.
Push the Limit with Advanced Sensors is just so awesome. You never have to worry about bumping. I plan on running a Two ship build at my store championship. The ships are so maneuverable so I'm fine just running them without support. If you let the tactician builds stress you then you're not flying right.
My current build
IG-88B & D
IG-2000, PtL, Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampeners, Autothrusters & Mangler Cannon on both. With D carrying a Seismic Bomb for the final two points.
I've seen a nice load out today. IG-B had PTL+FCS + HLC+Flechette Cannon and IG-C Outmaneuver + AdS+ Mangler Cannon. Choose your poison as both have outstanding damage output.
If green die are hot is almost imposible to kill them,speciallly with autothrusters...as an imperial player is hard to counter, PTL+Dash seems to do well.
I've since played a handful of games with the Iggy's and here is what I'm thinking.
I think the must haves are: AT/Adv. S and of course the title. Other than that it really comes down to your play style, these are cool ships because they have 8hps each and 3/3 attack defense with tons of ways of upgrading them so from one build to the next they can fly very differently. A couple IG-C and IG-D with HLC would fly way different than and IG-C and an IG-B with Manglers.
The other thing I've decided is that playing identical builds on both is too predictable for your opponent and too limiting for you, so mix them up a bit.
Finally I think Ig-C is by far the best ship. I am constantly boosting to get out of arc or put my opponent in arc and that free evade is just amazing. I'm torn between B or D as the other ship but again I think it is play style and choice on which of those you take. The only time I see myself flying A is when I can field all 4 lol
Here is my current build
IG-B: title/adv.s/AT ... and then Pred, Manger, ion (I like pred to get the reroll on both shots if I need to shoot twice... firing Ion first to strip peoples defensive tokens and then hitting with manger)
IG-C: title/adv.s/AT ... and then PTL, Mangler, and ID
I have been flying C out front turtling hard if necessary with the PTL and adv. sensor you can deal with the stress you just created and then you can focus/evade or boost/focus which gives you free evade. Make them target C first so that if you do lose 1 ship you still have your gunner ship. Then fly B behind Adv. Sensoring so you don't care and actually prefer bumping into C flying out front.
Stress builds make things difficult but not impossible. You'll want to fly them apart a bit to keep from getting any one of them double stressed or triple stressed and get into close range as quick as you can.
I still want to fly against a super dodgy list like a Soontir/Jax/Echo or something
thoughts?
Inertial dampeners also seems an auto include to protect against being blocked or outmaneuvered. It also combos nicely with advanced sensors.
I think IGB&C
Stay on target
Advanced Sensors
Ion cannon
Inertial dampeners
Proximity mines
Autothrusters
Title
100 points.
After playing this weekend Im firmly in the predator camp.