NOVA Squadron Radio – Episode 19 “Rebel Epic!”

Welcome to NOVA Squadron Radio! This week we are joined by NOVA Squadron’s own Neil Jenkins! We are still knee deep into Store Championship season so we cover a lot of that in the Flightdeck. In the News, Scum has been released! And in the Main Topic, we discuss the Standard side of the Rebel Epic expansions. All of that and more!

NOVA Squadron Radio is:
Ed Horne – Host
Kris Soehnlin – Co-Host and NOVA Squadron founding member
Ronald Brannan – Co-Host and NOVA Squadron founding member
Chad Brown – Co-Host/Editor
Sean Dorcy – Co-host
Bob Randall – Co-host
Kris Sherriff – Co-host
Neil Jenkins – Guest Host

Here are the show notes from Episode 19:

[0:00 – 1:25] Show Opening

[1:25 – 59:27] The Flightdeck: What we have been flying lately and local tournament talk

[59:27 – 1:38:34] The News:
-NOVA Open 2015 Registration: http://www.novaopen.com/
-Paul’s Latest Article for FFG: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/2/19/it-is-the-future-you-see-wave-6/
-Jodocast Interview with Alex Davy: http://www.jodocast.com/2015/02/22/x-wing-qa-with-designer-alex-davy/
-TC Coverage of the Worlds 2014 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmB2Py5O_HE

[1:38:34 – 2:32:12] Main Topic 1: Rebel Epic!

[2:32:12 – 2:34:00] Show Closing!


Musical Credits go out to the band ‘Insane Ride’ and their songs ‘Sound of Rock and Roll’ and ‘Wrong or Right’ found on the Free Music Archive at http://freemusicarchive.org/

Thanks for listening, and talk to you again in two weeks!

Here is the direct link: http://novasquadronradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/NOVA_Squadron_Radio_Episode_19_final.mp3

www.novasquadronradio.com

Sweet. Just in time for my lunch.

Nova Squadron and clam chowder. A good combo. You'd think I was on Dac, listening to the HoloNet.

Excellent, downloading now! Epic definitely deserves more love. Had a game fairly recently running a gunship CR90 with Roark and a lot of ion cannons and I have to tell you..... It's pretty funny when you ion a ship and KNOW that next turn they're going to go splat

It's false advertising, we only go over the cards that can be used in standard play!

Someday.... maybe after the Raider gets released...

Booooooooo Epic needs love!

Why do we keep talking about partial points?!? Did you kill the ship or not? It is an easy mechanic. If you want to kill this game fast, put some kind of complicated partial points math into it.

The first thing a player should learn (if they want to win games) is how to concentrate fire and how to keep your opponent from focusing fire on one of your ships. (This is why Biggs is such a great X-wing). The reason why Xizor is a game changing pilot is because he can deflect damage to a range one ship of his choosing. Keeping your opponent from landing consistent damage on the same ship is how you win this game.

In all seriousness, good episode guys. I do think that Stone 37 has a point though. It would nerf the usefulness of Biggs, Xixor, and even Draw Their Fire. They would still be useful to protect centerpieces in squads, but I think it would hurt their usefulness too much.

I think the main argument for partial points is in the 60 minute timed game. When a 60 point Fat Han has the ability to keep that many point away from his oppoent.

I see your point, I really do, kill it and score it. Its fairly simple and thus far is all we know for X-Wing. And overall, i am fairly pleased with how MoV has changed the game, as opposed tot he old SoS system, which allowed for drops to kill your score.

I just think as the game evolves this may be something we could look into.

Good argument though.

I really like that warthog scum build! Gotta try it at one of the upcoming Store Championships

R2-D2 and Corran fully endorse this partial scoring plan!

I think I covered that in the podcast?

If you want to kill this game fast, put some kind of complicated partial points math into it.

But would you feel the same way if the game rounds were only 20 minutes long?

If you have a calculator (i.e. smartphone) then it is easy to compute, and after you have done it once it is easy to understand. Kind of like calculating MoV for pairing between rounds. Most people use a calculator for that too. The ideal approach, and Sean and I have discussed this and agree on, is the tournament software should include a squad builder on the front end for when you register, and then at the end of each round you simply enter how many hit points are remaining. But even that is not needed. You just need to change the tournament scoring sheets to explicitly show the math for each ship. It is actually remarkably uncomplicated, merely tedious. It would add about 30 seconds more at the end of each round.

So, I'm actually genuinely curious: how would this kill the game fast? It only affects tourney play and would only take an extra half a minute after each round is done.

Edit: this is also the position that Sean holds to, and certainly is a respectable position, but I still don't really get it. The flip side is that not having partial points strongly discourages me from wanting to attend more organized play, because quite frankly the tournament scoring is a joke and creates an environment conducive to player arguments.

Basically, we have 2 choices:

1. Use a more complicated scoring system that risks not being completely idiot proof, or,
2. Encourage WAAC MtG style of play where players only bring point fortresses, and then slow play once they get the lead.

Observation: the squad building aspect has already largely capitulated to the point fortress aspect. We will have to wait and see if wave 6 substantially changes that.

The first thing a player should learn (if they want to win games) is how to concentrate fire and how to keep your opponent from focusing fire on one of your ships.

OK, I'll bite and I'll try and clear up the implication that I am a newer player that doesn't understand the fundamentals.

This is essentially a recap of the podcast segment on this particular battle report.

I actually DID focus fire his Han down to 5 HP after the initial exchange. I simultaneously kept his Talas from shooting at anything in the first round, and they only had long range primary attacks (no assault missiles) on Horn in the 2nd round. Then I stressed his Han so he had no choice but to be completely out of the fight leaving just his Talas vs me. I had my entire squad getting focused shots with only half of his squad able to get return shots for about 4 of the 6 initial rounds. You really can't do much better than that. I had him beat and he knew it.

The real lesson learned here is that the tournament game is not about wiping out your opponent, it it about who can manipulate the point system the best. This requires identifying the breakpoints in specific matchups and running away as needed. Slow play is not defined in any enforceable way, so the current tournament rules encourage the win-at-all-costs MtG type of players to abuse this as much as possible. With the game gaining popularity, this is the inevitable direction that player attitudes will take in the long term unless the underlying tournament structure is changed. Don't shoot the messenger!

In all seriousness, good episode guys. I do think that Stone 37 has a point though. It would nerf the usefulness of Biggs, Xixor, and even Draw Their Fire. They would still be useful to protect centerpieces in squads, but I think it would hurt their usefulness too much.

Stone37 has a point (keep the tourney rules idiot proof), but partial points would not nerf Biggs et al in the least. The best tactical approach is always to focus fire the opponent.

Easy for you, MJ. The public and math don't get along.

I once almost got written up at work for doing paperwork under the assumption that 0.5 was bigger than 0.25.

"25 is bigger than 5, what're you talkin' about?"

Well that's why we have MJ on the show, to show us the math!

I have to say, this is an EXTREMELY good listen, considering I'm going to a store championship in Martinsburg WV this saturday, that I would guess a number of NoVA guys might be at. I'm taking notes on what all you guys are talking about bringing

As for partial MOV scoring. Just like Warhammer used to be. If you suffer half or more total hit points(Shields+Hull), then you count as half points toward victory.

Simple and very effective.

Off-topic: In the Bill and Ted's ad, MJ sounds a lot like Simmons from Red vs Blue to me

Easy for you, MJ. The public and math don't get along.

So the real challenge is figuring out how to effectively communicate the method! This is where the scoring sheet is very important. It needs to be totally self explanatory since that is all the players will be reading. Using a double sided 8.5" x 11" scoring sheet, you can easily have room for 5 rounds of scoring and 1 round on the back dedicated to an example that the players can reference. I'm thinking I should PDF the example that I have and post it here to see what people think.

Well that's why we have MJ on the show, to show us the math!

And I still usually manage at least one minor flub-up each show! Usually they don't get caught though and I'm probably the only one that knows about it... Of course there is still that one time that I actually said "I can't do math" off air, but you didn't have the recorder going to ever have proof of it...

As for partial MOV scoring. Just like Warhammer used to be. If you suffer half or more total hit points(Shields and Hull), then you count as half points toward victory.

Simple and very effective.

That is better than what we have now, but I believe the technical term for this is "moving the goal posts". Instead of running away at near-zero health, you now run away at near zero health or near half health instead. Lets take our example of a 62 point Han at 1 HP.

current scoring: 0 points

half points: 31 points

partial points: 57 points

So even under the half point system you are leaving 26 points on the table. It would be an improvement, but my take is that as soon as you do half points, you might as well just go full partial points. You have to deal with getting rid of fractions either way.

Specifically, lets look at how it plays out with a nearly full health 60 point Han vs a 5 HP 62 point Han. Once I killed his Talas I think I still had close to full health, so with half points I would have been winning 69-40, and instead of him running away, I could have been running away instead! At least until the point that he had me down to 7 6 hull, at which point he would be winning unless he was completely dead. So his best strategy would be to try and slow play and then snipe a few hit points at the very end to get me down to 7 6 hull.

So even with half points, it will still result in trying to play the points system and not the opponent.

Off-topic: In the Bill and Ted's ad, MJ sounds a lot like Simmons from Red vs Blue to me

Hmm..... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. But lets see what YOU sound like when a telephone booth suddenly appears in your living room!

It's neither bad nor good, really. He was the math guy on the Red team, so it's kinda fitting. Just so long as you don't start running around yelling "Suck it Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Hey yet another great podcast.

I agree that X-Wing tournaments need to implement a partial points system, MOV is an unintuitive way to determine the winner and gives too much of an advantage to large ships with tons of health over the smaller ships.

It makes no sense that you can score 36 points for dealing 11 damage to 4 TIE Fighters but score 0 points for dealing 11 damage to a Falcon, or score 22 points for dealing 14 damage to 4 B-Wings but 0 points for scoring 14 damage on a Decimator.

Focus Fire doesn't need MOV to be a smart tactic, focusing fire was the best tactic before tournaments and MOV were even a thing, you focus fire to stop your opponent's from shooting at you, not just because of MOV. Focusing Fire doesn't suddenly became bad if a partial points system gets implemented.

It's also not difficult to do it with a normal calculator.

(Total HP - Remaining HP) / Total HP x the ship's total point cost

is how much you score for each enemy ship, and you apply it to all ships, big and small. TO's are already expected to be able to calculate Strength of Schedule in the event of an MOV tie, this is not more difficult than that if you're using software to run your tournament anyway.

Why do we keep talking about partial points?!? Did you kill the ship or not? It is an easy mechanic. If you want to kill this game fast, put some kind of complicated partial points math into it.

The first thing a player should learn (if they want to win games) is how to concentrate fire and how to keep your opponent from focusing fire on one of your ships. (This is why Biggs is such a great X-wing). The reason why Xizor is a game changing pilot is because he can deflect damage to a range one ship of his choosing. Keeping your opponent from landing consistent damage on the same ship is how you win this game.

Because the Falcon surviving on one hull gets a disproportionate MoV advantage against fewer ships.

I am 100% for partial scoring in Heroscape, so I am 100% for partial scoring in X-Wing. Despite what some people think (*cough* Deroche *cough*) it is in fact the superior method of score-keeping, reflecting your efforts throughout the game much more accurately. If games were un-timed, it wouldn't matter. But alas the nature of tournaments makes finding a better method of scoring during time-constrained rounds a necessity.

What about damage thresholds? To make it simpler, you have a Falcon down to less than half health, you get half the points for the ship. So if you have an Acad. Tie with 1 hull remaining, your opponent gets 6 points. It makes the whole calculating mess a lot simpler when you have a damage threshold, leaving less than half the hitpoints of a ship, scores you half the points of that ship. Rounded up or down... Not sure what way makes it more balanced.

What about damage thresholds? To make it simpler, you have a Falcon down to less than half health, you get half the points for the ship. So if you have an Acad. Tie with 1 hull remaining, your opponent gets 6 points. It makes the whole calculating mess a lot simpler when you have a damage threshold, leaving less than half the hitpoints of a ship, scores you half the points of that ship. Rounded up or down... Not sure what way makes it more balanced.

Juggler made a post on the previous page explaining why half points has the same problems as the current system but with the same hurdles as partial points, so you might as well just do partial points if your're going to do a half point system.

With a half-point system, a 6 health Falcon is worth the same amount of points as a 1 health Falcon, which makes as much sense as the current system.

Its a little less of a gap, but yeah still doesn't make sense. I just think partial damage and points will be way too fiddly. Maybe for a small tourney it wouldn't be bad. But it already takes a while with +20 people to figure out standings.

To bad its too late to introduce objectives like Armada.