I couldn't find any detailed info in the official book so I was wandering what are the other GM's oppinions on the matter. Obviously each GM has the final say for his own campaign, but I would appreciate if next time I am somewhat better prepared.

The situation is as follows. We have been tasked with the delivery of Planetary defense equipment to a a station orbiting around a mining planet in the expanse. On arrival our Rogue Trader and the senior officers were invited to a dinner by the station... governer? (the person in charge of the space station). Our Nagivator appeared for the dinner unarmed and in an extravagant mess dress, the astropat was also unarmed and in some king of a robe (but let's face it, no one cares how the astropat is dressed), the void master was in his navy uniform with a carapace breastplate underneath and bolter in his hand and the rogue trader was wearing some light carapace with as much embossed skulls, medals and insignias as he could fit on it, with a ceremonial power sword on his belt.

Upon arrival at the dinner we were asked by the governer's (keep calling him governer, but I believe there are no governors in the expanse) majordomo to leave our automatic weapons and our rogue trader was asked to leave the power cell of his sword, because the governer has had a recent attempt on his life.
We replied that we find this unacceptable and if the "governer" can't ensure the safety of his own room without disarming the rogue trader sanctioned by the Lords of Terra to provide him with defense equipment - then probably is better idea for the dinner to be held on our ship, where he can bring as much automatic weaponry and power cells as he feels like.

The Mojordomo replied that specifically because the "governer" is securing the safety we will leave our weapons.
We said that if this is the only way he can think of - then maybe the imperoium should find a more immaginative "governer" for the station and left.

After that the GM informed us that because we have offended the administration of the station - our profit from the endevour is reduced by 2 (which seems like unusually high amount, considering that during our mission we supplied 2 aditional planets, and actually liberated one of those planets from a government replaced by pirates with total profit of 4 before the reduction).

My question here is how typical for the expanse this situation is. Should we consider it our own fault and suck it up or we will be within our rights to do something about it. If we decide to try and replace the "governer" by both administrative and forceful methods - would that fall withing the expected reaction of a typical rogue trader and do we have any reliable chance to succeed or attempting it can get us into serious trouble.

Where in the flexible hierarchy of the expanse is a rogue trader and where is the manager of a space station? Was our behaviour unacceptable for a rogue trader?

I think the claim "you people cannot even protect yourselves" has merit, but I can also agree with the GM's call. The "governor" is offended by the Rogue Trader's lack of trust and vice-versa. Coming in with full combat gear suggests that the Rogue Trader does not believe in the governor's ability to protect everyone, while the governor's disarming policy suggests that he otherwise cannot defend against someone like the Rogue Trader. The situation really could have gone either way, from my perspective.

Upon arrival at the dinner we were asked by the governer's (keep calling him governer, but I believe there are no governors in the expanse) majordomo to leave our automatic weapons and our rogue trader was asked to leave the power cell of his sword, because the governer has had a recent attempt on his life.

A perfectly reasonable request, even if the governor had not recently had an attempt on his life. Why do you need automatic weapons to eat dinner, anyway? Seriously, do you have some reason to suspect anyone at the table will try to attack you mid-feast?

We replied that we find this unacceptable and if the "governer" can't ensure the safety of his own room without disarming the rogue trader sanctioned by the Lords of Terra to provide him with defense equipment - then probably is better idea for the dinner to be held on our ship, where he can bring as much automatic weaponry and power cells as he feels like.

Dismarming the guests is the first and most important step in ensuring the safety of everyone involved. All the other security measures in the universe won't matter very much if some random newcomer is allowed to bring a gun into the same room as the Gov. Especially if there's something big and bulky - like a large dining table - that could be used to cover the drawing and firing of said weapon.

Moving the dinner to your ship is possibly the worst idea as far as protecting the governor goes. "Yes, we are in fear for our governor's life as a recent attempt has been made against it. By all means, let's move him and his entourage entirely off the station we've spent the last few weeks securing, and onto a recently arrived space ship whose credentials we may still be in the process of verifying."

You players know that your characters are trustworthy, the NPCs don't.

The Mojordomo replied that specifically because the "governer" is securing the safety we will leave our weapons.

We said that if this is the only way he can think of - then maybe the imperoium should find a more immaginative "governer" for the station and left.

Perfectly reasonable response wherein the majordomo explains what should be bleeding obvious, met with completely unreasonable and petulant crybaby tactics. I reiterate my previous question: why do you need weapons to eat dinner? If **** does start happening, your weapons will be there by the door.

My question here is how typical for the expanse this situation is. Should we consider it our own fault and suck it up or we will be within our rights to do something about it. If we decide to try and replace the "governer" by both administrative and forceful methods - would that fall withing the expected reaction of a typical rogue trader and do we have any reliable chance to succeed or attempting it can get us into serious trouble.

I would expect that being asked to check your weapons for simple, non-violent activities like "dinner" is exceedingly common. Particularly when there are highly influential people present, such as the commanding officer of an entire space station. Doubly so if said commander was recently the subject of an assassination attempt.

The 40K universe is fairly "grimdark" and most people don't sweat too much about "rights," however, continuing to pursue this point is probably going to end up costing you more than its worth. You were already ridiculously out of line, and you were justly punished for your abominable behaviour. Pushing it will probably just encourage the GM to have your ship explode and call off the game.

Where in the flexible hierarchy of the expanse is a rogue trader and where is the manager of a space station? Was our behaviour unacceptable for a rogue trader?

Rogue Traders are freelancers - they have no official position or power beyond what they can carve out for themselves. You can do whatever you want because you don't report to anyone. However, you can also be taken out and replaced very easily, because you don't report to anyone.

The space station's governor would have near absolute power on his own space station, at least. Beyond that, his power probably diminishes very quickly. However, he would likely have a few political contacts and strings that he could pull. Refusing to pay you because you disregarded his legitimate security concerns and made an ass out of yourself is well within his rights. He probably can't do anything to you after you leave the station, but he can certainly keep his money.

It's unlikely that anyone in the greater universe at large will care about your plight. Anything short of attacking the space station to get your money by force is probably a waste of time. Attacking the space station might very well lead to further consequences, though - I doubt the Imperium would be as apathetic about that.

Just my opinion, but...

A Rogue Trader wearing a sword is acceptable in nearly any situation. Anybody showing up "bolter in his hand" should be asked to leave by guards with bolters in their hands.

I answer as a DH GM with my one 2cents worth:

1) Etiquettes of the host
If you visit somebody, you are under his roof and play by his rules. You are free to think of him and of what he considers etiquette whatever you want, but telling him off for it and refusing the Invitation the way you did it is crass . Crass enough to be an even worth breach of etiquette then a demand to disarm. "you-do-not-trust us?" is a two-sided argument here, but an RT is expect to be daunting. A "Station Gov" is perhaps not.

2) Weapons and etiquettes
Personal / ceremonial arment is fine in 40K. The Major domos asked for the power cell and to remove automatic high-caliber weapons (the bolt weapon). One might discuss about the power cell of the e-sword... but by doing more then giving one snub about it BEFORE handing said cell over the RT acted not really souvereign (what was HE afraid off?). And in my personal books there is no way to wear a carapace breastplate UNDER A UNIFORM without looking just silly. Anybody looking silly at an official dinner is missing the point. Personally, I would have allowed for the bolt pistol, but if the Station Gov is paranoid...so what? Hand it over and stop making a fuzz about it.

Personally, I would have accepted ONE Bodyguard with a weapon, so. This would have lead to penalties for any social interaction ("the RT is distrustful towards me / my security") but that´s about it.

3) Damage to profit
Personally, I would have had this happen as a "damage over time" (as the Administratum and other factions stop favouring you for certain Kinds of Business) and perhaps only with one point of Profit OR would have reduced the achievement points for the endeavour, but that´s about it. One can argue that, too, but if your Boss is unfair, your Boss is unfair.


4) Head strong Players vs head strong GM
I always advice my players to ASK about potential consequences of their Actions instead of simply EXPECTING something to end up like this or that. (sometimes calling for Intelligence or Lore checks to see if there characters judge the Situation right). And I advise this to you as well. 40K is not an intuitive world. It is not an overyl well definied world and different People have very different opinion about how the ball rolls. Take your time to check if the way you see it is the way the GM see it...and then decided if you want to take what is coming or not.

By the by, your GM was likely acting "hard & childish" in the Profit Punishment because you just have ruined a prepared adventure scene (and perhaps subplot) by completely refusing to Play the Scene (in his eyes). If that is so, you might have robbed yourself of something enjoyable.

PLEASE talk to your GM about it and ask him straightly if he felt sick/sour for your guys refusing to Play the Scene. Perhaps this is the reason, perhaps the Profit damage can be negated/migitated in hint side if no hurt Feelings are involved any more.

I can certainly see where a group of players, who might even by now be conditioned to see things from the perspective "Bob (the GM) is describing what's happening, with us going to a dinner, rather than saying 'you arrive at Beakman's World, deliver the supplies, and are asked by the Governor/Commodore (in Star Trek, I BELIEVE military stations under the command of an officer are usually mastered by a Commodore, just so that no one wonders where I pulled that rank out of; it might be wrong, and 40k might do something else) to partake of a banquet. Being a small, no where planet, you attend, and nothing else happens. Okay, let's get back to money-making and pirate-busting!', so we should expect he's going to do SOMETHING, or he'd just gloss over this little bit, and get us back to us being cool." not wanting to be parted from their weapons, and pulling an Aragorn in books "this is no mere sword; this is Anduril, forged from the shards of Narsil, the sword of the King of Gondor. I certainly will NOT be leaving it standing at the door. Well then, if the great Lord Aragorn will not be leaving his fine sword at the door, then he will not be passing through the door, by word of KING Theoden." I paraphrased a smidge, and if you only watched Peter Jackson, you remember Aragorn being a bit more "reasonable", and a bit less possessing Anduril by that point; would we have been as impressed at Arwen bringing him a banner in 3? No. Sry, rambled. Anyway, it's not unforeseeable that they'd gripe, but I'd agree that, in many ways, they should have just accepted their spot. Melee weapons would probably be left with you, Fellowship suck-up banter tests might've gotten you to be able to persuade some leniency on several other toys, and otherwise, you just have fewer guns, and hope he's not a Cultist.

As they leave, they'd lose some cred there, but 2 PF as a bit more than I think they should have lost, being how huge that can SOMETIMES be, unless his connection is worth that, and now they don't that connection. Still it is HIS home, and even high-ranking Samurai would leave their priceless katana swords at the door, keeping only the smaller wakizashi blades on them; the facts that another Samurai would challenge you, give you back the katana, and let you fight honorably, and that hallways are too narrow for the bigger blade, both help strengthen the legitimacy of this act, but whatever. I can see some RTs, the more crazy, out there, monster ones belly-aching about their weapons, too, but that's more when you politely excuse yourself, saying you and your crew need to be somewhere, curse the vagaries of warp travel, or accept that your guns will be a few feet away. Part of it might just be players being players, seeing everything as a potential "action scene", and not wanting to be caught unprepared, but RT should have at least as much "sitting around the table, role-playing with the NPCs at dinner" as shooting the cultists who are part of his entourage, or whatever you thought might happen at a little dinner with a regional nobody who wants to later say he ate with you.

Look at it the same way as if you went to a big party on Scintilla. What do you think the bouncers will let you carry into the grand ballroom? Power swords? Power FISTS? Bolters? HEAVY Bolters? I've done a book party before, and the RT goes in full finery, with his power sword, and an entourage of his hot arm candy/bodyguards, but his other weapon is usually an inferno pistol, and that takes AT LEAST some smooth talking at the door, probably leaving it on the Exalted Wyrm , and trusting to melee, his guards' digital weapons, and the venue's own security; otherwise, there'd be way too many drunken fights between rival RTs, or nobles, and way too many dead people.

From the above, maybe now they'll get a message from one of the Gov's detractors. I don't care what person of power you are, you have other nobles, officers, constituents, or SOMETHING that doesn't like you, envies your position, and wants to sit in your chair, feeling more qualified to do your job. If this governor has had an act against his life, someone doesn't care for his rule. Perhaps that someone might now try to rope you into further strengthening the place you just equipped with weapons by equipping it with a change of leader, one more disposed to "rewarding his friends." Best of luck.

As you can tell, each GM/DM/Arbitrator/Rule Master has their own interprentation of the setting. Each one is valid and correct, as the ways of 40K are as varied and different as there are worlds in it. Below is also my view pertaining to your questions you inquired about.

.....

My question here is how typical for the expanse this situation is. Should we consider it our own fault and suck it up or we will be within our rights to do something about it. If we decide to try and replace the "governer" by both administrative and forceful methods - would that fall withing the expected reaction of a typical rogue trader and do we have any reliable chance to succeed or attempting it can get us into serious trouble. ....

The number of social situations/encounters depends on the group and GM's play style in. They can be as common as fleas on a four legged animal, or as rare as a blue moon over Terra. For consequences of said failed encounters, it depends on its relevance in the story arc, along with the setting in question.

Example: Port Wander is very influential. Having that Station Governor/Commandant/Manager/Supervisor/Liege be upset with PC's operating in the Koronus Expanse could be very disastrous, while having him/her upset with PC’s operating on the other side of the galaxy would be nigh inconsequential.

To determine the repercussions of said station, one must first determine its relevance. As other people mentioned, it could have been a relevant story arc the PC's missed. It could also be that the station is the only stopping point for many sectors, and 75% of void traffic would pass through it when operating in that area. Best to get with your GM and determine these issues.

Once you determined the importance (or lack there-of) of said station, the coup/change of command could be very disastrous if attempted and failed, very promising if successful, or quite insignificant no matter the outcome. With it costing you -2 PF, I'm inclined to say it has potential to be important.

.....

Where in the flexible hierarchy of the expanse is a rogue trader and where is the manager of a space station? Was our behaviour unacceptable for a rogue trader?

Example: A small 10k population station in orbit over a rarely travelled to mining planet, with resouces of common quality, would probably be very low on anyones chart. However, a 200k pop station, dealing in the security of rare minerals or drugs with important medicinal purposes, over the heavily populated mining planet, which has constant void traffic, and owns it fealty to the Imperial Navy and Winterscale, would probably be very important to someone (probably the Imperial Navy and RT with ties there-of).

Wth all that said, RT's are almost always above the heirarchy of station staff, simply due to their Warrant of Trade. The RT is allowed to go where he/she pleases, when he/she pleases, with whom-ever he/she pleases. A manager of a Space Station is limited to his/her location, importannce therein, and scope. Obviously, your run-of-the-mill RT should not irk the commander of The Defence Station above Terra.

The answer you are trully looking for, is the one your GM has in mind. If you have not asked him/her these indepth questions, please do so at the earliest convience. No matter what though, I wish you and your group many enjoyable endeavors.

First thing that comes to mind is the old west. Everyone put down their pistols to eat. It was a standard and one that TBH I enforce in all situations.... who wants to get randomly killed at dinner? Who wears carapace armor to the table? One false slip and BLAM... the bolter goes off and some mook has no head lol. Now... having said that.... how bad do they want the planetary defense? enough to say its worth the risk? My bet is on yes.

the void master was in his navy uniform with a carapace breastplate underneath and bolter in his hand and the rogue trader was wearing some light carapace with as much embossed skulls, medals and insignias as he could fit on it, with a ceremonial power sword on his belt.

Tricky, but in and of itself not too bad. In general, as a peer of the Imperium a Rogue trader can be expected to retain a personal weapon/status symbol in most situations. The carapace armor and bolters, however, could be a problem if they cannot be passed as, say, a 7-millenia old relic. According to previous FFG publications - I think a Dark Heresy book - one member per noble can be a designated bodyguard with somewhat more freedom regarding weapons, but this is not necessarily universal.

Upon arrival at the dinner we were asked by the governer's (keep calling him governer, but I believe there are no governors in the expanse) majordomo to leave our automatic weapons and our rogue trader was asked to leave the power cell of his sword, because the governer has had a recent attempt on his life.

This is unusual, but not too surprising. The head of a station is iirc considered a commander by the fleet hierarchy, which I think is similar to the captain of a ship that is a part of another's command (i.e. the captain of a frigate in a patrol commanded by a light cruiser). Depending on the age of warrant, type of stations etc the RT can be considered as equal to marginally higher if it were an open field, so to speak, but it is not. Remember, you are guests to his home. Barring a huge power discrepancy, his rules would be assumed to apply.

The power cell of the sword and bolters are, as mentioned, a bit more than what might be required elsewhere. However, this is not outside of what can be asked for. This does not mean that you cannot bargain for an exception to be made, just that to me the majordomo is giving you what would normally amount to a valid request.However, it should be possible to negotiate.

Frankly, considering that you have a navigator and an astropath, you are far from harmless, but this is about appearances as much as about actual firepower.

We replied that we find this unacceptable and if the "governer" can't ensure the safety of his own room without disarming the rogue trader sanctioned by the Lords of Terra to provide him with defense equipment - then probably is better idea for the dinner to be held on our ship, where he can bring as much automatic weaponry and power cells as he feels like..

/.whistles U wot, mate?

Alright, this is an open insult - as the governor, it is his job to ensure the safety of the station, and his right to do it however he likes within what is allowed by the Imperium. And no, offering it to be on your ship is not a respectable counteroffer - especially after being told there was a recent assassination. It would only add to the insult by - not only is it a wildly inappropriate counter, but it also intimates that HE cannot provide security. YOU can. Ergo, you tell him his job better than him. To me as a third party, it seems you were very openly picking a fight.

An alternative might be to negotiate by proxy, which would be atypical and show some hostility or mistrust, but notably less than this.

The Mojordomo replied that specifically because the "governer" is securing the safety we will leave our weapons.

We said that if this is the only way he can think of - then maybe the imperoium should find a more immaginative "governer" for the station and left.

Typically I get around players being wankers about their weapons by letting them keep them if "fashionable", but asking to remove the clips as well as more "vulgar" armaments, and offering some stylish, but non-functional sidearms instead as a courtesy of the host.

I don't tell them they're non-functional.

Honestly I'd say the Players/RT crew aren't the only ones in the wrong on this in terms of etiquette. The governor should have informed the RT of any unusual requests and situations, such as enhanced security requiring them to leave behind or neuter their weaponry. A side arm or ceremonial melee weapon (AKA sword) is OK at a formal dinner. These things are often part of a military dress uniform even in our not super grimdark world. A bolter or other long arm is not generally OK at formal events.

In the grim darkness of the future, for a space conquistadore out beyond the fringes of the Imperium, you would expect them to have at least a couple of weapons on themselves at all times as a matter of course, and turn a very hairy eyeball on someone requiring them to disarm themselves like that. This isn't exactly Scintilla here.

How would I have handled it as the RT?

Tell the voidmaster to leave the bolter at the door (“don't you have a pistol, man?”), and otherwise suggest to the majordomo that he should have informed me of these requirements when we were discussing the dinner in the first place, or at the very least before I got to the bloody door. I will certainly not be disabling my family heirloom sword if there are assassins flitting about. I have enough trouble with those sorts with my weaponry thank you very much.

If we have a long standing history of trust and cooperation I might consider it, but if we do then why is he asking me to disarm? If we don't, if we're strangers or if our history is rocky, then I am definitely not disarming.

The other question I would have is how this guy's displeasure equates to 2 whole points of profit factor when your job is to drop of planetary defence equipment? Is he reneging on agreements made?

Within the imperium, a RT and a governor are both peers of the imperium and thus equals. Obviously, some are more equal than others but formally, any distinction would be of precedent, for example if the RT's warrant predates the colony foundation etc. And that would only make a difference in the waiting line or seating arrangement....

Beyond the imperium, there are no formal ranks.....The ruler of the station in this situation is the host so he "outranks" any guests in matter of protocol and precedence. By objecting, your p.c.'s showed very poor form. Maybe the players believed that as RT & crew, they were top dog and rules don't apply to them?

But as you are asking about applicable etiquette, you want to know if they behaved reasonable? The answer is no.

An invitation to a ball/formal dinner implies a certain dress code/behaviour. In fact, in real life, dress code is often written on the invitation itself. One doesn't wear combat gear to a formal occasion, no matter how polished (the only exception would be space marines who practically live in their power armour). Even modern formal military dress at best includes a dress sword more suited to stabbing olives than a human being.

Which is why there are so many other ways of being armed in this game. Miniaturized weapons, weapons that appear as accessories, etc. etc. And why being able to smuggle such weapons past inspection is so important. In this example, the governor's security would likely be scanning for weapons with advanced scanning devices. Weapons would have to be undetectable in some way to get them in. Think walking sticks with blades inside, hairpins etc.

As 40k is a militant setting, it wouldn´t be unreasonable to expect people to wear swords at a formal setting but these would be dress swords/cermonial swords etc.....not big killing blades like chain swords....hence the request to remove the power cell to a power sword.

In my DH campaign, the players have two sets of outfits/load outs. One is for investigations and consists of non-descript clothing, mesh armour and a handgun. The other is for heavy combat/kicking in the door and consists of adeptus armour and basic guns...

In this case, your players should perhaps have a seperate formal dress (fancy clothes, inconspicious armour, sword) which they wear when forced to endure social encounters.....and keep their away team weapons for when they are landing on an unknown planet....