While I was walking the dog tonight, and had ample time to theorycraft and list-build in my head, I had some weird thoughts. Back in the day, there were some super hero RPG games that, during the character creation, you could take a de-buff for your character to give you more build points for them (and add some flavour to them too). So I started pondering if this would have a place in a game like this one. I thought too that these would be useable only by generic ships - so no Unique pilot cards. These would come with a negative point cost, so you can add more buffs to your Unique pilots, or add other add-ons to the generics that you may not have the points to do otherwise. I'd suggest that each of the Debuff Cards themselves would be unique so multiples couldn't be used.

Thinking of some phrasing from the movies, especially the Battle of Yavin, I came up with a few of these ideas:

"I Can't Maneuver!" - When within range 1 of any friendly ship, suffer -1 Agility. Cost -3 points

"Can't Shake Him!" - Immediately after rolling your Defense dice, change one "Evade" to "Focus". Cost -2 points

Novice Pilot - Any Green turn or bank maneuvers on your dial become White maneuvers. Cost -4 points (R2 Astromech can still change them back to green).

They Came from Behind! - When being attacked by an enemy ship that is outside your primary arc, enemy can immediately change one "Focus" to "Hit". Cost -3 points

No Approach Vector - When attacking at Range 3, reduce your Attack dice by 1. Cost -3 points.

Would you use something like this on your ships? Or is it just dumb idea?

So basically, with Novice Pilot, I can have a Y-Wing (already don't have any green hard or bank) for 14 points or an X-Wing with all 1 and 2 maneuvers green (thanks to a R2 unit) for 18 pts? Does it sound right to you?

This is essentially what the chardaan refit is. Minus two points - you may not equip missile upgrades.

I wouldn't mind another negative point cost card or two in the future. Just don't want a TON of them.

I can see the appeal.

They came... from.. behind. -3 points. When attacked from out of your firing arc, the attacking ship increases its attack value by one.

I can hold it... -2 points. When you gain a stress token, immediately roll an attack die. Suffer any Critical Hit results rolled.

Your overconfidence is your weakness. Imperial Only. -2 points. Large Ship only. When you roll more attack dice than the target rolls defense dice, change any natural Critical Hit results to Hit results. [This would pair very nicely with HLC]

Your faith in your friends is yours. Rebel Only. -2 points. When you are at Range 1-2 of another friendly ship, if you suffer a Critical Hit, roll an attack die. The other friendly ship suffers any Critical Hit results rolled.

No approach vector = all HWKs are 3 less points. Who cares about losing your 1 attack die at range 3? Not like you're going to hit anyway...

I think some of these idea are interesting, but similarly for the chardaan refit it needs to be tailored to a specific type of ship. If they left chardaan refit to work on any ship with a missile slot we'd be seeing it on every single falcon ever.

I say there should be a limit to them in that they cannot be used on named pilots.

Other than that, I think it's a fantastic idea.

I don't want to track this at the table. It's one thing to know my list, but to know this random stuff is not making it more fun.

No approach vector = all HWKs are 3 less points. Who cares about losing your 1 attack die at range 3? Not like you're going to hit anyway...

Anyone who watched the FCB furball tonight will disagree!

Not at all an idea I'd support. The game certainly has enough min/max elements to appeal to those types, why introduce more of it?

The whole idea of taking a debuff in one aspect to increase the efficacy in another (or in this case, the efficacy of the entire list) is complete BS. No one in their right mind is actually taking anything they truly believe to be a detriment, and is purely after a stronger list under the guise of what superficially appears to be a nerf.

Cases in point:

"I can't Maneuver!": Obviously, only taken on Lone Wolf pilots. Hardly what I'd call a downside.

"I Can't Shake Him!": Rec Spec. Guri. Soontir. Put it on ships it couldn't possibly affect, and shave points off your squad build? Win/Win.

Novice Pilot: You said it yourself.

"They Came From Behind": You'll put it on a high-PS arc dodger and bam, 4 more free, consequence-free points for your list.

No Approach Vector: Couldn't have been more tailor-made for a HWK, whose primary is useless at range 3 anyway and whose turrets are capped at range 2.

I just don't at all see the point in letting experienced players build 110+ point squads to beat on newbs with 100 point squads. A player will just design his list around these so-called "debuffs", congratulate himself on winning games despite his "sacrifice" and the game will be worse for it.

If they did something like this, it would need to work like chaardan refit, in that, you have to give something up permanently (aka missile slot) and not just have range or situational modifiers. For example in the OPs first example - "I can't Maneuver"- it is a free -3 points as long as you keep out of range 1 of a friendly model. It the current low ship count meta, this is generally easy to do and in some cases the goal anyway(I'm looking at you Lone Wolf) So while I like the idea in theory of negative point cards, they have to come with a " real" opportunity cost to make them not just an auto include. Even chardan refit is almost an auto include because ordinance is so underwhelming at this time.

I really think the only way this could fairly work is to make them either modifications or EPTs. That would instantly make them a real detriment to the ship that takes it and lasts all game and not an auto include.

They need to be unique, else I'll fly 10 novice academy pilots and howl runner with determination....

Thanks for the feedback.

I agree they're not ideal, I was just spitballing the ideas, and they were coming off the top of my head while I was walking the dog and put them down when I came home. I sort of see them as a kind of Damage card, and not to simply duplicate the existing Damage deck, but one that you can pick at squad build to debuff some, and boost up some other ships.

They've already done this with Chardaan Refit. -2 points, you lose your missile upgrade slot.

These kinds of upgrades should always be ship specific and should never be made generic for any ship because then balancing the game when designing future ships becomes a nightmare.

If you want to design a ship that is unaffected by the drawbacks of a negative upgrade card, then you either can't make that ship or you have to price it with that upgrade in mind but then nobody can play the ship competitively without owning that upgrade.

By the book (EPT, limited) - this card has a negative point cost of -3.

I have a hard enough time keeping track of the various cards for my own ships.

Imagine what it would be like if the other player had cards that increased/buffed the ability of my ships.

His ship is cheaper but unless he's really awesome honest will he keep saying 'don't forget to add an attack die against me'?

Not a good idea for being available on all ships/pilots. Also those numbers are poorly valuing what they are debuffing.

They did this "negative cost" upgrade idea already with the a-wing, and they pseudo-copied the idea for scyks (both make the ship cost 2 points more expensive to keep your secondary weapon slot). I don't think these options are bad for repeating the design philosophy to 2 different cards, but are bad because they fail their purpose: to allow you to build these ships for multiple roles. Scyks are not an efficient option without the title when compared to z-95s; how many players do you see doing well with scyks without the title (heck, even with the title--without the cannon)? Besides occasional proton rockets, how many a-wings are doing well and carrying missiles? The ships end up generally type-cast despite these "options".

Crew Jar Jar Binks

All ships (including your ship) within range 1 must add a stress at the end of the activation phase. Cost -2.

This takes away 1 crew slot (which are probably the most valuable upgrade slots) and it basically means your ship is going to be stressed the entire game. But the benefit is that you could also stress the enemy if they get to range 1.

Crew Jar Jar Binks

All ships (including your ship) within range 1 must add a stress at the end of the activation phase. Cost -2.

This takes away 1 crew slot (which are probably the most valuable upgrade slots) and it basically means your ship is going to be stressed the entire game. But the benefit is that you could also stress the enemy if they get to range 1.

make it -10 and add = any FRIENDLY OR ENEMY SHIP that may shoot this ship MUST attack it.

IT MAY ATTACK TWICE.