I have been milling over a new house rule for my OW game at home. Let me know what you think.

Dropping weapons is currently a free action with no associated consequences other than perhaps the tech priest bitching at you. A new homebrew I have been thinking up would add some more thought associated with dropping a weapon. Since, IRL, dropping your weapon on the ground or exposing it to dirt/muck/the force of gravity vs. hard surface results in throwing off the sights, gunking up the action which then leads to jams, misfires and inability to aim, I figured the game needs a little more realism.

Proposed Rule: "Dropping Weapons" : dropping your weapon is a free action. However, since the machine spirits of weapons are fickle, whenever a weapon is dropped, the chances of that weapon jamming increase by 100% (Single Fire Jam: 96-00; Semi Auto: 92-00; Full Auto: 84-00) until the user has a chance to properly appease the machine spirits (thoroughly clean the weapon). Since full cleans cannot be done in a timely manner and require stripping the weapon, a rush job can be achieved in four rounds of combat. Furthermore, any shots to hit with dropped weapon are at -10 until it is properly cleaned. Weapons with the "reliable" special quality lose it if dropped.

I'd assume the consequence of 'letting go of your rifle' is that it now hangs on it's sling, ready for when you can put your hands on it again.

And compared to using your rifle butt to smash some guys skull, a simple drop on the ground is not going to bother your rifle. You could add a result like 'adds 1% to jaming chance until cleaned' but not sure that is enough effect to really bother with.

Of course, this means that you probably don't want a sling on your plasma gun. But they are dropped all the time, and if being dropped really bothered a plasma gun, then they wouldn't all be so old, because the guns would have come to pieces long since.

There are even slings for machine guns, so would assume that many of the more 'portable' heavy weapons are properly slung as well.

Weapon jams in only war are something on the order of 5 to 6 times more likely than RL as it is. They are, in fact, frequent enough to make certain things play out very oddly. For example, the most likely reason for you to use up ammo is not shooting it out of your gun, but instead, losing it when your gun jams.

Details:

if you take your autogun, set it to single fire and start shooting, you only have a roughly 51% chance to be able to fire 13 rounds with out a jam. Your chance of being able to fire a whole magazine without a jam is only ~21%.

The 'reliable' lasgun gets off a bit better, in single shot, we have around a 54% chance of being able to use up a whole 60 round magazine without a jam.

Now, you might be asking, what are 'realistic' numbers for guns jamming?

For a modern 'reliable' assault rifle in the very bad conditions, jam chance per round is something on the order of 2/10th of 1% (.002). The same rifle under much less taxing conditions has a jam chance per round of something like 5 in 100,000.

The American version of the Chauchat , which was so horrible that it's often used as the poster child for unreliability, even 100 years later, had a jam chance of something on the order of .0135 (Assuming ~ 50 MRBF). So, slightly worse than the 'reliable' lasgun in only war.

Of course, doing things like dropping your weapon out of a helicopter and then beating several people to death with it probably makes it about as reliable as the 'average' weapon in only war.

All right. Well thanks for your reply.

I am implementing this in my game to dissuade my players from simply dropping their weapons anytime things get hot. You used an example of melee attacking someone with your rifle - none of my players would ever do that. They would drop their weapons. Now they have something to think about.

Now, you might be asking, what are 'realistic' numbers for guns jamming?

I wasn't.

For a modern 'reliable' assault rifle in the very bad conditions, jam chance per round is something on the order of 2/10th of 1% (.002)

This statistic just has no basis in reality. The AR 15 by itself is a modern assault rifle platform that has so many options it cannot be placed into a blanket classification of "modern reliable assault rifle" as reliability can increase or decrease based on options. Gas action? Piston action? Floating barrel? Covered exhaust port? Open? It also doesn't take into consideration the myriad of various ammunition loads and how those effect jamming. Hotter loads rack the action faster, gunk up the action faster, while less "hot" loads may have issues with feeding.

Without arguing the minutia of your -statistics- I will say that aside from Kalashnikov, semi-automatic weapon actions do not enjoy environments outside of lubricant. Gas operated actions do enough on their own to gunk up a weapon, dropping it in the mud does not help this. I have a lot of range time with my rifles - I will say the only one that doesn't give me a lot of guff without frequent cleanings is the M1 Garand. Granted, sometimes it doesn't like to feed with a fresh clip.

But I would guarantee you that if you jaw-checked someone more than a few times with the butt of your weapon that its adjustable rear iron sights - or god forbid an optics system - would have a hard time staying on the money. Even a few millimeters of difference means hit/miss at 100 yards.

I suppose with everything you have said, you are in the camp that my house rule is "too severe" of a punishment. Interesting.

Yes, I think being the guy with the plasma gun is punishment enough. If the gun overheats, you pretty much must drop it (or take about 1d10 damage, which would be something like half of your wounds). Then, next turn, you have to spend a half action to pick it up again, and then you have to wait to fire it again.

If you, for example, want to drop your lasgun and draw a melee weapon, you still can't charge, because that's a full action. I suppose you could fire your lasgun, drop it, and then draw your melee weapon if you expected to be charged next round. But, then again, you might be better off using your other half action to aim with your lasgun, or move away from the guy who you think is going to charge you. So even in that situation, it may not be the best course of action.

What specific circumstance(s) do you think dropping your weapon (other than when your plasma gun is overheating) do you think give such a large advantage?

Noted. Thanks for your input.

I think it's largely a non-issue. Dropping a gun makes it hellishly unavailable unless it's on a sling, in which case the listed situation becomes irrelevant because the drop would be safe.

I think I'd be more worried about a chambered round going off while the weapon is pointed at my general direction (potentially) from a random arse drop without a sling. XD

40k is a setting where stuff such as a weapon's reliability after being dropped or how common slings are is really left to personal interpretation. Some of the TT minis actually do have slings [ 1 ][ 2 ] , but the vast majority does not. Coincidence or intentional limitation? It's for you to decide!

In terms of realism, increasing the jam range by 100% sounds a bit harsh; I'd merely increase it by a single point per drop.

Then again, a mechanic ought to feel justified in its existence rather than just being there to bulk up the rules, so for narrative reasons I suppose a +5 is not that bad either, if you add an option to have the weapon fixed with a crafting/repair test. The trooper can either attempt to try it by themselves (running a chance to ruin the gun further!), or see what they need to do in order to get skilled personnel take care of it (a chance for some roleplaying with the NPC quartermaster, possibly involving some barter or favours etc).

Of course, only having a chance to properly fix the weapon at the base runs a greater risk of it ceasing to function in a combat situation, but I'd sell this as an opportunity for some exciting in-character panic and improvisation, switching to secondary weapons (or drawing the bayonet) or picking up a dead comrade's rifle, or even an enemy's.

That is also what I was hoping for. In fact, after running it by my group, the Enginseer is already thinking of the business opportunities presenting themselves when other members of the squad need their gear repaired.

I'm not sure dropping has "no consequences". It means if you want/need to switch back to the dropped weapon, you need to go back to where you dropped it and pick it back up. Oh, look, the melee dudes have friends at range and they've got you pinned down, and your rifle's out in the open, and trying to get to it would get you shot repeatedly

Okay, sure, if you're suddenly surprised by somebody in melee/charge range, dropping your weapon saves you an action in switching over to a primary melee weapon, but let's be honest, if a weapon can't handle being dropped a few times, it's going to be lousy as a weapon, and it will be useless the first time you beat somebody with the butt or stab them with the bayonet attachment.

Or, if you get surprised, need to switch to melee, but need to withdraw/retreat from the engagement in a hurry, your dropped weapon is going to be lying where you dropped it. Ooops.

I can see attached scopes perhaps needing to be re-zeroed after being dropped, or maybe needing to double-check the zero on adjustable iron sights (reducing/eliminating the benefits of aiming), if you're going for 'enhanced realism'.

Plus, at least in fluff descriptions, the Imperium is fairly big on caseless ammo for projectile-based weapons, leaving the action protected. Imagery tends to belie this, however.

Also ... this is a setting where weapons can, and regularly do, outlive multiple wielders, and can easily function after/for thousands of years without much difficulty. If they can't take some rough handling, that really wouldn't be the case.

When/how is dropping so overpowered/unbalanced an option that you feel the need to punish/nerf the option of dropping weapons this way?

Also ... what happens if a melee weapon gets dropped?

I agree with most of what you are saying, Jav, however pictures and depictions do tend to belie the whole "lasts for thousands of years" thing. While they do last for thousands of years, the "fluff" always comes back to ... "yet the proper maintenance methods have been long forgotten so the weapon overheats/malfunctions/whatever from time to time." It is an easy way for them to fit the whole losing technological intuitiveness schtick into having had the same weapons for ten thousand years.

Anyways, it was to stop the tech obsessed enginseer who is also obsessed with machine spirits from simply dropping his beloved plasma gun. Which, I know he will do on an overheat. Now he will have to think about what he enjoys more, roleplaying his PC honestly or taking damage.

Again, like most things I post, this was posted under the assumption that I WILL BE using this and playtesting it. I want to know what you all think regarding its mechanical function - whether it is too harsh or not harsh enough. Not necessarily that I shouldn't do it because it "doesnt fit the fluff" necessarily.

Having thought about it for a while, think the main problem with your approach is that it is too 'stick and stick' rather than 'carrot and stick'. In addition, once the gun is dropped for the first time, I don't care what happens to it every following time. And because I'm taking 1d10 damage otherwise, I'm going to drop the gun the first time.

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Since you seem to want to specifically address plasma guns, how about changing overheat to something like this:

When the gun overheats, you have three options:

1

Hold on to the gun, take the damage, be able to fire the gun next round

2.

Put the gun down at your feet. As it's venting plasma, you still catch some of it, take damage, but d5s instead of d10s, the gun doesn't suffer, but still has to cool down an extra round.

3.

Throw the gun a few meters away, take no damage. Gun is now 1d5 meters in a random direction, gun may take damage.

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Now, there seem to be reasons to do any of the three choices.

Yes - those weapons can and do last that long despite the inadequacy of the Imperium's/AdMech's maintenance procedures and incompleteness/"pieced together from multiple sources" nature of many design blueprints. That strikes me as being far more of a testament to the durability and reliability of the weapons, rather than an indictment of them.

I think it's too harsh. Increase the chances of an automatic miss by that much, sure; reduce the ability to aim, sure; require mounted scopes to get re-zeroed, sure. I wouldn't increase the jam rate by that much, if at all. It's a slippery slope, IMO.

And frankly, if you do this, some of your players might then point out that if dropping a weapon does that, using it as a melee weapon, either clubbing someone with the butt or stabbing at them with the bayonet or other melee attachment, should impose the same or worse penalties.

If you want to deter the tech obsessed enginseer from dropping a plasma gun on an overheat ... let him get caught doing that by a more senior enginseer, who will then proceed to tear him a new one, possibly literally, for disrespecting the plasma gun and its machine spirit ... and may also impose restrictions on his plasma gun privileges until and unless he demonstrates proper respect for the plasma gun and its machine spirit, even in the face of an overheat.

As it is, however, I think that this house rule is far more likely to make him stop using the plasma gun altogether, while penalizing other players should they need to drop their weapon in an ambush scenario, for example, or surprise close quarters combat.

I'd probably try to deal with it in-game or in-character before adding a new houserule mid-game.

You both have some good suggestions.

Jav - your assumptions about my players couldn't be more off point insofar as not using the plasma gun/main weapons anymore because dropping them on the ground comes with some consequences. I run everything by them before implementation to gauge their reactions and see if they have any suggestions - much the same as I do here.

He was cool with it. We are a dedicated PbP group, so everyone has a lot of time to flesh out their responses, ideas, characters and reactions with a lot more patience and cool. In fact, surprisingly they thought the -10 to aim was too harsh and that the jamming increase wasn't a problem.

I do appreciate the responses, though. Thanks.

I can see attached scopes perhaps needing to be re-zeroed after being dropped, or maybe needing to double-check the zero on adjustable iron sights (reducing/eliminating the benefits of aiming), if you're going for 'enhanced realism'.

Plus, at least in fluff descriptions, the Imperium is fairly big on caseless ammo for projectile-based weapons, leaving the action protected. Imagery tends to belie this, however.

I like the idea for attachment effects - I suppose you could simply "disable" their use, meaning no bonuses from them? Ironsights might make the Aim action impossible.

As for the fluff descriptions, that tends to depend a lot on the exact source. Fortunately, with stuff like autoguns, it's not difficult to just assume there's a million different types scattered throughout the Imperium.

Yes - those weapons can and do last that long despite the inadequacy of the Imperium's/AdMech's maintenance procedures and incompleteness/"pieced together from multiple sources" nature of many design blueprints. That strikes me as being far more of a testament to the durability and reliability of the weapons, rather than an indictment of them.

I think it's a matter of something that already only works barely being more prone to malfunction when exposed to even further stress than normal operation. Plasma weapons having the Gets Hot rule is a perfect example, because they are not really supposed to do this. I could see how their already not perfectly calibrated mechanisms get damaged further when handled without care.

That being said, realistically speaking, there probably should be different modifiers depending on how complex a weapon actually is. I just think this would bulk up such a mechanic too much, and we'd be delving into Shadowrun-grenade-style mechanics ("to determine total damage, check the grenade's radius and compare it to the distance of nearby walls, then calculate how many times the blast wave is thrown back by [...]").

On the subject of jams, I must confess that unless something desperate comes up, I always ensure that I personally have a Fate Point handy - preferably multiple - to prevent jams. There is little more frustrating than watching a freshly loaded ammunition backpack empty because your Heavy Bolter went klack on the first salvo.

On the subject of jams, I must confess that unless something desperate comes up, I always ensure that I personally have a Fate Point handy - preferably multiple - to prevent jams. There is little more frustrating than watching a freshly loaded ammunition backpack empty because your Heavy Bolter went klack on the first salvo.

Yeah this is another rule that makes absolutely no sense and has never been enforced in any of the games I have been a part of.

A jam results in one round being lost - losing an entire backpack because one round decided to misfire or improperly feed/eject is stupid in the highest degree.

On the subject of jams, I must confess that unless something desperate comes up, I always ensure that I personally have a Fate Point handy - preferably multiple - to prevent jams. There is little more frustrating than watching a freshly loaded ammunition backpack empty because your Heavy Bolter went klack on the first salvo.

Yeah this is another rule that makes absolutely no sense and has never been enforced in any of the games I have been a part of.

A jam results in one round being lost - losing an entire backpack because one round decided to misfire or improperly feed/eject is stupid in the highest degree.

Our group considered the logic so that the characters believe that the machine spirit of the weapon must have been offended by something if it refuses to function and therefore they abandon the unused ammo. It could be tainted or something.

And with some weapons faulty charge pack or something is the most likely cause of malfunction. The part that plugs the pack to the gun on the lasgun charge pack might be damaged or something. Leaky tank for a flamer is likely to kill the user. And if the ammo for plasma or melta weapon is damaged it can cause a catastrophic explosion.

Right. I agree with that. I am referring specifically to cartridge ammunition - even caseless like bolters use.

even caseless like bolters use.

*... in some versions of the background. /nitpick

The "Machine Spirit" being offended by certain ammo and thus refusing to accept it is an awesome idea for a justification, by the way, at least for those regiments that buy into the AdMech's dogma. Very clever!

Right, right, right. I know. I know. I KNOW LYNATA, OK?!