Has anyone done a stat conversion for the TIE Scout / Lone Scout-A? I've got an PC that wants to pilot one, for an outer rim fighter squadron campaign, but the only mention of a statblock I can find is to a dead link at gsa.gamernation.org. I'm hoping someone out there has the block handy, or has done one of their own.

Don't have the GSA article, but just dumping something up I'd do something like....

Sil 4

Speed 3

Handling -1

Def 1/1

Armor 3

HT 20

SS 17

Hyperddrive x2

Backup x15

Navcom: Yes

Sensors: Short

Crew: 1 (pilot)

Enc: 240

Passengers:3

Consumables 1 yr

Cost: 100,000ish, 5 Rare

HP: 4ish

Weapons: Forward Med Laser Cannon

Here's the stat block I came up with for the GSA:

Hull Type : Freighter

Ship Class : LSA-2 Scout

Manufacturer : Sienar Fleet Systems

Hyperdrive : Primary: Class 2, Backup: Class 12

Navicomputer : Yes

Ship’s Complement : One Pilot

Passenger Capacity : 3

Encumbrance Capacity : 200

Consumables : 1 year

Cost : 148,000 credits

Silhouette : 4

Sensor Range : Long

Speed : 3

Handling : 0

Defense : 1/1

Armor : 3

Hull Integrity : 22

Strain Threshold : 15

Customization Hardpoints : 2

Weapons

Medium Laser Cannons (Fire Arc Forward; Range Close, Damage 6, Critical 3, Linked 1)

Only tweak I've made is to specify the laser cannons as medium lasers and to give them the Linked 1 quality for a tad more firepower. I've not revisited the stats, but I'd probably lower the Hull Trauma a bit and perhaps the price tag as well if I were to make it a starting option for a PC group.

I'd suggest lowering the Encumbrance Capacity and the Cost. Everything else seems perfectly inline with other ships we have stats for. Of course, the high price is inline with the overcosted TIE variants we've seen, so...?

There was quite a few variations on these.

The TIE S/R, which was the early model, basic military scout ship, dating way back to the first TIE fighter era

The Scout-A that was the civilian market model with a x3HD and X15 backup

The improved Scout A2 that had a longer range sensors, X2HD and X12 backup

Most of them had an Ench of about 120-150 or so, 3 passengers, 1 pilot and some kind of light or medium laser cannon on the nose. Brand new they where about 150k, but 2nd hand you'd pay anywhere between 28-75k credits depending on the model of box with wings.

Aside from that, not a remarkable ship because its a pretty old design, though the 12 months of consumables was pretty good and at 24m long they where fairly big, so there would be room for some speeder bikes and gear aplenty

For small scout ships, I really like the Skywatcher from Beyond the Rim.

Well, after recovering from work, and having dinner, I'm feeling a bit more inspired, so I'll take a whack at some thoughts...

Hmm... I'm not so sure about the Silhouette. The only art I've ever see that gives a sense of scale puts this ship at roughly the same size as a TIE Bomber (7.8m), or a Missile Boat (10m). That goes nicely with the fact that it's supposed to use a standard TIE cockpit (at least the front half, anyway).

I know the Wookieepedia page says it's 24m long based on the WEG numbers, but I'm pretty sure we all know how accurate those tend to be. That would also make it larger than an AT-AT, something the art clearly shows not to be the case. If we assume that WEG pulled their all too common feet-equals-meters mistake, then it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 7.5m long, which is in the same neighborhood as the TIE Bomber, matching the art. At the outside, I'd put it in the 10-12m range based on this image, so I think this one is pretty clearly in the Silhouette 3 range.

All of that means the HT & SS are almost certainly high, as are the HP. It's not particularly hardy according to the descriptions, but a recon vessel can't afford to be too fragile.

How about HT 9, SS 10?

All of the descriptions talk about the advanced sensor suites that both the military and civilian versions had, so I might argue for Medium range there, at least on the military version.

And it certainly doesn't need 240 Encumbrance. Sure, it has a significant, and dedicated, cargo hold, but that's more than the YTs we all know and love. How about something in the neighborhood of 20-30, putting it close to the similar-purpose A-24 Sleuth?

Not being quite so large, it probably doesn't need all those HP either. Fighters tend to run in the 1-2 range, but this has a bit more bulk. Maybe 3?

That gives us:

Sil 3

Speed 3

Handling -1

Def 1/1

Armor 3

HT 9

SS 10

Hyperddrive x3

Backup x15

Navcom: Yes

Sensors: Medium

Crew: 1-2; 1 pilot, 1 co-pilot (optional)

Enc: 30

Passengers: 2-3

Consumables: 1 yr

Cost: 100,000ish, 5 Rare

HP: 3

Weapons: Forward Light Laser Cannon

Hmm... I'm not so sure about the Silhouette. The only art I've ever see that gives a sense of scale puts this ship at roughly the same size as a TIE Bomber (7.8m), or a Missile Boat (10m). That goes nicely with the fact that it's supposed to use a standard TIE cockpit (at least the front half, anyway).

I know the Wookieepedia page says it's 24m long based on the WEG numbers, but I'm pretty sure we all know how accurate those tend to be.

Further confusing the matter was WEG DIDNT have the lone scout as an imperial ship. They already had a recon TIE called the TIE/rc, which just looked like a TIE with wiskers. The lone scout was a fluffy way to show that SFS was a normal company that made real products for normal people, and not just military hardware. So when later products needed a tie scout, they used the more destinctive lone scout, but shortened it to look more like a roomy TIE instead of a school bus like originally intended.

Hmm... I'm not so sure about the Silhouette. The only art I've ever see that gives a sense of scale puts this ship at roughly the same size as a TIE Bomber (7.8m), or a Missile Boat (10m). That goes nicely with the fact that it's supposed to use a standard TIE cockpit (at least the front half, anyway).

I know the Wookieepedia page says it's 24m long based on the WEG numbers, but I'm pretty sure we all know how accurate those tend to be.

Catch is that artwork was made well after WEG by an unrelated artist for a different product. The original art WEG used was a simple head-on view that didn't allow you to see how stupid-long the thing was.

Further confusing the matter was WEG DIDNT have the lone scout as an imperial ship. They already had a recon TIE called the TIE/rc, which just looked like a TIE with wiskers. The lone scout was a fluffy way to show that SFS was a normal company that made real products for normal people, and not just military hardware. So when later products needed a tie scout, they used the more destinctive lone scout, but shortened it to look more like a roomy TIE instead of a school bus like originally intended.

But, since then, the same artwork has been applied to *both* rather consistently, and the orthagonal, head-on view doesn't show length at all, so it doesn't actually contradict this image which shows scale and matches every other piece of art for the ship, including 2 generations of RPG since, and at least one computer game. For the ship to match the 24m size, *and* the art, it would have to be 3 times the height and 3 times the width as well, making it large enough to carry 2-4 AT-ATs (crouched), without having to play Tetris while loading the thing. And, frankly, that doesn't make *any* sense for a scout ship, civilian or otherwise.

Being consistent and accurate wasn't always a priority for some game designers and artists

So, being a bit progressive we can come to a decision of what 'fits best'.

I'm sort of liking the Sil3 ship Voice did up as it sort of 'fits' as sort of a TIE "Space Van", instead of the full "Space Bus" that's a transport for troops and vehicles. Dozens of transports out there, which just do that and adding another really doesn't add that much to the game itself by creating another one.

The slightly smaller range below transports which is a Scout/Patrol ship is something which would fit a market niche as well and we don't have many of them.

But, since then, the same artwork has been applied to *both* rather consistently, and the orthagonal, head-on view doesn't show length at all, so it doesn't actually contradict this image which shows scale and matches every other piece of art for the ship, including 2 generations of RPG since, and at least one computer game. For the ship to match the 24m size, *and* the art, it would have to be 3 times the height and 3 times the width as well, making it large enough to carry 2-4 AT-ATs (crouched), without having to play Tetris while loading the thing. And, frankly, that doesn't make *any* sense for a scout ship, civilian or otherwise.

It doesn't have to be any bigger height and width. Just longer. And the original stats actually say it has a 60 cubic meter cargo bay.

See it's not a "recon" scout ship, it's more of an "exploration and survey" scout ship. You need all that room for exploration droids, survey scanners, tents, claim beacons, additional food and supplies, tools, clothing for every (environmental) occasion, a speederbike or two, and so on.

But that's not what other games and designers needed. See they needed a recon craft, which the Empire was already doing with these:

All good for recon (especially the first one) but they all also have a problem. Probe Droids aren't starfighters, so they are hard to balance in game. Skipray's are big (ish) patrol boats and not well known. The RC (at that time) looked way too much like a normal TIE, so it didn't stand out. And the Gunboat was too niche.

But then they saw this:

Which looks like a TIE, but not. So it fit the mold of a spacecraft that was also "Imperial looking" enough that a player with no EU experience would be able to identify it as a "TIE Scout."

In all likelyhood the artists didn't even read the descriptor and just kicked something out, which later artists copied.

Errors like that still happen.

After all. A skipray looks like this:

But some artists just looked at this:

And not knowing what it was supposed to look like, didn't notice the wings rotate. So he gave use this ridiculous image:

So mistakes happen and get repeated....

But, since then, the same artwork has been applied to *both* rather consistently, and the orthagonal, head-on view doesn't show length at all, so it doesn't actually contradict this image which shows scale and matches every other piece of art for the ship, including 2 generations of RPG since, and at least one computer game. For the ship to match the 24m size, *and* the art, it would have to be 3 times the height and 3 times the width as well, making it large enough to carry 2-4 AT-ATs (crouched), without having to play Tetris while loading the thing. And, frankly, that doesn't make *any* sense for a scout ship, civilian or otherwise.

It doesn't have to be any bigger height and width. Just longer. And the original stats actually say it has a 60 cubic meter cargo bay.

Take that image, and reconcile it with the official art I included earlier. The ship is *clearly* in the same size range as the TIE Bomber sitting right next to it. If it were *actually* 24m long, it would extend back *past* where the missile boat is sitting. There's no way that this rendering, which tries to force the 24m length, matches the official art for the ship which includes more than just the orthographic front view. The image I posted matches the model for the LucasArts RTS, *and* the front view. So, three visually consistent images, all sourced from licensed materials, vs. one official image, and a fan-edit which ignores the other two images, and attempts to force a 24m length statistic from a source widely known to use a bone-headed 1-foot-equals-1-meter conversion ratio for a variety of ships when creating measurements.

Note: I didn't say it had to be 3x the width and height to hit the 24m measurement. I said it had to be 3x the width and height to hit the 24m measurement *AND* match essentially square top-down view shown by the other official art. It clearly *can't* be 3x the width and height, because we see it sitting next to a TIE Bomber in one of those pieces of art, and it *also* clearly can't be 24m long because of the same piece of art, which is consistent with the others.

But that's not what other games and designers needed. See they needed a recon craft, which the Empire was already doing with these:

... SNIP ...

So mistakes happen and get repeated....

Like saying it's 24m long when no official art can be reconciled with that figure? In fact, the image I didn't trim out directly contradicts every piece of art associated with the craft *except* for the orthographic front view. (Look at the 'wing' panels on your image, compared to the one I posted. You'll see *one* vertical spar, about 1/3 of the way from the front., where your image has 5 of them, evenly spaced, where two are significantly thicker than the others.

As for the 60 cubic meter hold? Based on the size of the TIE 'ball', you've got about 4m x 3m of cross section where the hold is. That means a 60m^3 hold only requires about 5m of depth. Less than half of the upper limit of length based on the official image. There's certainly no need for 24m of length for that small a hold. Even taking .5m for hull thickness (absurdly thick for something this size), you need less than 7m of depth to fit that hold into this ship. That still leaves The version you posted has room for a hold roughly 3 times the size. (Remember, we've seen from canon examples that the 'ball' of a TIE is large enough for a full grown human to stand inside.)

The speder bikes, exporation droids, etc? What do you think that 60m^3 hold is *for*? All of that, and basic living quarters will fit in a version of this that tops at out 10-12m

There's another thread here that goes into this discrepancy. Suffice it to say there's no official artwork that can be reconciled with the idea of this thing being 24m long like the WEG books claim. (The SECR books size it at Gargantuan, which is the same category as an X-Wing or Y-Wing, which run in the 12-16m range.

I decided to make the frontal view just slightly bigger, enough to make this ship 2 levels at about 2.5 meters each, to meet the 24m length. This gives the ship enough room for everything it's supposed to do: 150/160 mt of cargo space, 1 year of consumables (that's a lot of room when you think about it), sleeping quarters for 4 people, lounge area, and room for the shields, sensors array internals and all other ship staples. I didn't include a lot of detail though. I just wanted to get a usauble version to create a floor plan. I am still undecided whether or not not the main hull is rounded or if it's more of a rectangle as i've seen both on similar looking TIEs. Image to come...

One year of consumables doesn't have to take up all that much room. Very efficient engines and long-burn reactors for peer coupled with full reclamation recycling means the little you pack can last a long time. Sure, you're eating recycled paste that tastes like crap (that's the all-natural flavor coming through), but it can keep you alive.

While this is true, i believe that having a years worth of consumables means that it's going to be a looooong trip. Best to have a good amount of amenities as well as not to go space crazy lol. Here is my version of the Lone Scout A.

On 3/4/2015 at 11:57 AM, Ghostofman said:

It doesn't have to be any bigger height and width. Just longer. And the original stats actually say it has a 60 cubic meter cargo bay.

See it's not a "recon" scout ship, it's more of an "exploration and survey" scout ship. You need all that room for exploration droids, survey scanners, tents, claim beacons, additional food and supplies, tools, clothing for every (environmental) occasion, a speederbike or two, and so on.

But that's not what other games and designers needed. See they needed a recon craft, which the Empire was already doing with these:

All good for recon (especially the first one) but they all also have a problem. Probe Droids aren't starfighters, so they are hard to balance in game. Skipray's are big (ish) patrol boats and not well known. The RC (at that time) looked way too much like a normal TIE, so it didn't stand out. And the Gunboat was too niche.

But then they saw this:

Which looks like a TIE, but not. So it fit the mold of a spacecraft that was also "Imperial looking" enough that a player with no EU experience would be able to identify it as a "TIE Scout."

In all likelyhood the artists didn't even read the descriptor and just kicked something out, which later artists copied.

Errors like that still happen.

After all. A skipray looks like this:

But some artists just looked at this:

And not knowing what it was supposed to look like, didn't notice the wings rotate. So he gave use this ridiculous image:

So mistakes happen and get repeated....

I thought this might be relevant again.

And love the streeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaach Scout there, Imps next epic!