I know the common thought is - 100pts of everything, but does anyone really plan to play 4 of the cheapest StarVipers (Black Sun Enforcer? Does the complete collection really include these ships, or is it more logical to expect to use 3 of them at most?

Jacob

P.S. I tried searching and didn't come up with a satisfactory thread...

I think 3 is already pushing it. You can only use the Virago title card once, since it's unique. Once you can't use advanced sensors or FCS on a Starviper, it loses a lot of its maneuverability or reactive flying appeal.

Any number over one is pushing it.

You need at least 4 sets of ATs.

I actually don't think 4 BSE's will be a bad squad. Its has 20 hitpoints behind 3 agility dice. It also throws out a good amount of attack dice. I think the PS 1 hurts it though. You really won't be able to take advantage of the repositioning movements. It might be pretty good against a swarm. If you can take out Howl, the Ties will have a hard time putting damage on the SVs.

Any number over one is pushing it.

I disagree. I don't think this ship is being given a fair shake. It is a multi-tasker, even without the title. A good pilot can change gears a few times with these ships. I can easily see TWO in a list, and maybe even three.

Xizor is too expensive, the title is unique, and the generics are talentless and cost too much.

There's no reason to run any star viper who isn't Guri.

In my opinion two StarVipers are enough. Taking three or four in your list I feel you would be cheating yourself out of other ships that could provide more tactical options to your squad.

Unless you want four for epic play

I don't know why people are discounting Xizor so quickly. I find that most of my victories are when my opponent doesn't or can't focus down one ship and spreads damage around. That's exactly his ability.

I don't know why people are discounting Xizor so quickly. I find that most of my victories are when my opponent doesn't or can't focus down one ship and spreads damage around. That's exactly his ability.

I think many are still thinking in terms of Rebel and Imperial tactics. Xizor is a different kind of Biggs in the manor that your described.

That's really the virtue of some of the Scum abilities:

Ships near Palob won't be taking token-granting actions as often.

Xizor and Laetin won't get shot at often.

N'dru will either be avoided or chased.

Mux is effectively the Scum Biggs.

And so on...

I also really think the Enforcers will find their place, much like the Deltas.

I got three b/c I'm stupid. 2 is probably enough unless you need more than 4 Autothrusters.

Is there ever any reason not to run an Enforcer with autothrusters? Say maybe with a Hull/Shield upgrade?

Xizor is too expensive, the title is unique, and the generics are talentless and cost too much.

There's no reason to run any star viper who isn't Guri.

Gotta say, the downplaying of Xizor seems misguided

dude is 1 point more than his clone for two PS and an ability that guarantees one less die of damage, making it the closest thing the Star Viper is going to get to the evade action. I'll take the guaranteed "evade" that you can facilitate with your own ships rather than your opponents over Guri any day provided you can build the right list (4 bug zapper Zs, done)

I do think Guri lends herself to more lists, though, and unlike Xizor I could see myself running her even without Virago (slap on Predator, maybe thrusters, call it a day)

I don't have much faith in the generics, though (remind me too much of the knave + no meaningful upgrade choices apart from modification) but I'm hoping someone will prove me wrong.

Is there ever any reason not to run an Enforcer with autothrusters? Say maybe with a Hull/Shield upgrade?

You save two points taking them naked, which isn't that bad an option

Apart from that, though, I'm having a hard time imagining a modification I'd put on any boost ship before thrusters

Is there ever any reason not to run an Enforcer with autothrusters? Say maybe with a Hull/Shield upgrade?

If Flechette Torps get super popular a Hull Upgrade is probably solid.

Xizor is too expensive, the title is unique, and the generics are talentless and cost too much.

There's no reason to run any star viper who isn't Guri.

Awwww.... Now I really want to run 4 for the next Store Championship!

Yeah after listening to S&V Podcast this week, and looking into the ship real good... I'm gonna sadly agree, FFG messed up on Generic StarVipers.

Which means I am going to have to come up with a few cards to fix it so my badass Black Sun Vigos can do something akin to TIE Interceptors.

I really like the StarViper, but I kind of feel just one is enough for a 100 point game. I am curious if 3xSV+2xZ would work, but I have tried 4xSV and didn't like it.

4 Starvipers is a solid list. It's nothing fancy, but has good attack output and good survivability. It's similar to 4 blue B-wings but a better dial, better blocking, with the trade-off of no sensors.

4 Starvipers is a solid list. It's nothing fancy, but has good attack output and good survivability. It's similar to 4 blue B-wings but a better dial, better blocking, with the trade-off of no sensors.

You're trading 12 shields for an extra 2 defense dice. 4 ship lists don't really want to block if it means giving up 25% of your firepower.

People dislike Xizor because they want him to be Scum Soontir and he's not, he flies completely differently. The idea is that Xizor hides next to all your other ships pretending to be a normal jouster, nothing to see here, and then after you've elliminated their turret or PS 8+ ships, Xizor can break away and start outmaneuvering whatever's left. He's a sneaky bastard that hides behind the other ships in your squad until the coast clears a little bit.

It's actually incredibly thematic, if you think about it.

4 Starvipers is a solid list. It's nothing fancy, but has good attack output and good survivability. It's similar to 4 blue B-wings but a better dial, better blocking, with the trade-off of no sensors.

You're trading 12 shields for an extra 2 defense dice. 4 ship lists don't really want to block if it means giving up 25% of your firepower.

Technically with your example you're trading 12 shields for 8 defense dice, but on average the durability is similar. My 4 ship lists do often block, especially when it comes to key slippery ships. With a great dial, br, boost, and PS1 you can place StarVipers in very good positions, whether it's for blocking or not.

I can see three of them (two basic and one beefed up named) being fun, but if I was going to run four boost/barrel roll ships, I would rather have four PTL RGPs.

I'd say two is the sweet spot, I don't see myself running four ever.

3 for 100 point game.

4 for the cards and 150 point game, casual play I prefer 150. More fun really and allows for many types of builds and ships.

I can see three of them (two basic and one beefed up named) being fun, but if I was going to run four boost/barrel roll ships, I would rather have four PTL RGPs.

I don't know, they seem to be pretty mutually exclusive

Vipers strike me as B-wings on spring break more than interceptors

4 is fun, but it's a C list. You lose one right away and then you have 3 anyways. They'd really benefit from the Virago title, autothrusters, or even a flechette torpedo. I'd say 3 is more viable. They're probably best as one ofs in a list, Xizor with 2 z's near him or a suped up Guri seem like nice additions, but 4 starvipers is a sub par 4 advanced sensors b wing list without the dumb incessant actions.

Also, with all the mangler cannons running around, they get torn up considering that they're 80% hull.

A+ for being a badass though for flying 4.