*I've been working on a few lists for Scum, and so far the results have been mixed. However, this list appears promising but I'd love some feedback.

*The idea is to take a 3 ship build that maximizes damage output while still being somewhat sturdy. The biggest downfall here is the effective range of 2 on the list, however most lists will encounter trouble staying consistently at range 3. Having flown leebo a great deal, the ultimate "keep away" pilot, I know that staying at range 3 is harder than it looks, particularly against a list that is not afraid to disengage if they can't keep up and try again from another angle.

*The lynchpin here is Torkil, dropping a target to PS0. That target is then focused down by N'Dru and Kavil, both with predator, gaining each 2 rerolls. That should at least take out the shields of most ships, which allows Torkil to get an ion cannon shot at the target and, with Greedo, that damage becomes a face up card. The list is to be methodical, focusing down one target at a time.

Here's the list:

*Kavil with Blaster turret, unhinged astromech and predator (32 pts)

*N'Dru with Cluster Missiles, Hotshot Blaster, Predator and Munitions failsafe (28)

*Torkil with Ion Cannon Turret, Greedo and Hull Upgrade (28)

*And a naked Z-95 (12) to rush in and try to block or take shots and generally appear to be a more appealing target as much as possible.

*N'Dru with cluster missiles is rolling 8 dice with 4 rerolls in one round, and hotshot blaster is a nice 360 arc 4 dice shot with two rerolls, and as I understand it, munitions failsafe works on hotshot and that's what it's there for. Kavil is focused on taking hard 3 turns to keep his face away from the enemy while stay engaged. Blaster turret is rocking 4 damage with 2 rerolls against the PS-0'd target as well.

*Originally I had flight instructor and stealth device on Torkil, seeing as I could choose a target with a shot on torkil to be PS0, flight instructor then lets you reroll a blank, and I am taking focus actions anyway. By dropping those points and an upgrade here and there, I squeezed in a Z-95 instead, as flying 3 ships makes me a bit nervous. If you were going to ever take flight instructor though (4 points, jeez) this would be the ship to take it on. It also helps make Torkil a less attractive target, which is a bonus as he is already a target that makes the opponent think twice due to his low damage output and much more dangerous targets hovering nearby. Since he's generally the last to die anyway, 7 points of defensive buffs seemed excessive.

*The flight pattern is pretty straight forward, bring torkil and kavil up the middle slowly while the Z stays a range band ahead of them. N'Dru can start near them during deployment or further away, depending on how slow you want to roll him in, but either way he splits off pretty much right away. N'Dru should be closer to range 3-4 of Torkil with the target between them when he is coming in for the kill, with enough room to zip behind or ahead of your own fleet's range 2 bubble. N'Dru needs to be able to stay safe and fly well to keep that damage on, but he doesn't need to actually be near torkil to benefit from his target being dropped to PS0, he just needs to be range 2 of his target when combat comes.

*Kavil's hard 3 gives him some serious options when moving. Just before the turn of engagement, you want to get turn him hard to make sure he is not facing the enemy. The secondary benefit of this is that he is in a better position movement wise in future turns, but be careful that he does not cut off N'drus flight plan. They both need to stay in the fight, so running them towards each other is a bad move.

*The lone Z should die first. This is a successful death if he dies over the course of two rounds and both of your damage dealers are getting shots in on both of those rounds. Getting mauled in the first round of combat is not ideal but workable, as that means N'dru probably didn't get mauled instead and should at least get his cluster missiles off. If the Z dies and you didn't get any shots off on the enemy, you overextended your Z and his death was in vain. The Z isn't a free kill, he's playing a soft Biggs by flying a full range band ahead.

*Once N'dru drops his payload, get him out of dodge. His hotshot blaster ensures you are able to get hits while getting to safety. He can reengage once the enemy gets stuck in and deal out his 3-4 dice with predator rerolls. If you are flying him off to the side, you don't want to make him an attractive target. Fly him slower than the rest of the fleet with a plan to speed him in. Sometimes a ship or two will break off to deal with him. If you can, punish them for it by disengaging early and coming in behind your fleet instead.

*Against phantoms, dropping one to PS 0 with all these turrets and predator out is a death sentence. Cluster missiles will tear up heavier ships like decimators or fat-falcons quickly. People tend to think that once a Z, even N'dru, fires off it's payload, it's no longer a threat, so getting your payload off quickly is important to sustain damage. Hotshot blaster is for later.

*BBBBZ can put a lot of pain on this list, but N'dru can outfly the list pretty easily and has the benefit of shooting right away, and gets natural predator so hitting Torkil's target is less important. A Biggs list is much more threatening, as you want to take targets of opportunity and pull down the ships the enemy thinks are going to survive the conflict. Biggs really shuts this idea down as you have to unleash hell on him first, instead of whatever he is protecting. Playing it slow is still the key. This is a slow rolling alpha strike list.

*Against tie interceptors, the process is the same but you need to pick your target early. Fel doesn't give a **** about shooting last, he only cares about not getting shot. Hotshot blaster is useful here. Spreading N'dru a little further out than usual is also a good idea, as it gives the interceptors a bit less room to get around your fleet. Interceptors like Fel aren't going to K-turn unless they must, and all your ships have some kind of 360 arc. The biggest issue is going to be getting N'Dru's cluster missiles off. I wouldn't even want to try it until after combat has started and the interceptors are going after particular targets and flying more predictably, but holding onto those cluster missiles is a big risk.

*Tie Swarms, as rare as they seem lately, pose the most dangerous threat. They come into the fight already expecting to die, and you'll be hard pressed to take out more than one a turn. The tempo of the fight is greatly in the swarms favor. Blow cluster missiles on Howlrunner if you can, but not at the cost of losing N'Dru. He needs to engage pretty late in this match up. Playing torkil aggressively is key, keeping the spare Z a bit further back. Keep Kavil back behind Torkil and the Z. You're goal here is to reduce the Tie's down past critical mass to where they are unable to eat through Kavil and your remaining forces reliably. The Z's role is mostly the same, but you want him living a bit longer than before, so keep Torkil shooting and looking like the most viable target. He'll get his ion shots off ahead of the swarm, and with Greedo he can do some serious damage, but he won't one-shot anything. You MUST remember that Greedo only activates the first time each round you give or take a damage card, so those billion tie shots are only going to trigger Greedo once.

...

TL;DR, What did I miss and how can I make this list a better all comers?

Not sure how much you have played this list, but in my experience torkil is focused down right away almost every time, even thigh he's not a direct threat his ability just angers people. With that in mind, greedo may not be the best crew, I like to use recon specialist, but you would have to find a few points obviously.

I just posted a similar list except I put an R4 agro mech on Kavil, and dropped some goodies to gain an extra Z-95. My strategy is also similar to yours but I have yet to fly the squad.

Agreed. If you're taking a blaster turret, then the R4 agromech is too good to pass up, especially on Kavil with his 4-dice shots.

I'm not convinced that N'Dru Suhlak will live long enough to dump two one-shot weapons, especially since neither of them can be used at range 3. The Munitions Failsafe also strikes me as a waste - albeit only of one point - as a 4-dice attack with predator really shouldn't be missing....

*I've been working on a few lists for Scum, and so far the results have been mixed. However, this list appears promising but I'd love some feedback.

*The idea is to take a 3 ship build that maximizes damage output while still being somewhat sturdy. The biggest downfall here is the effective range of 2 on the list, however most lists will encounter trouble staying consistently at range 3. Having flown leebo a great deal, the ultimate "keep away" pilot, I know that staying at range 3 is harder than it looks, particularly against a list that is not afraid to disengage if they can't keep up and try again from another angle...

*Kavil with Blaster turret, unhinged astromech and predator (32 pts)

*N'Dru with Cluster Missiles, Hotshot Blaster, Predator and Munitions failsafe (28)

*Torkil with Ion Cannon Turret, Greedo and Hull Upgrade (28)

*And a naked Z-95 (12) to rush in and try to block or take shots and generally appear to be a more appealing target as much as possible.

So let's look at things in terms of bare defense. Borrowing from MajorJuggler's work here, your list is the defensive equivalent of 1.4 + 1.2 + 1 + 1 = 4.6 TIE fighters. Compare that to a swarm of TIEs or Headhunters (6-8 TIE fighters' worth), BBBBZ (6.7 TIE fighters), two Firesprays and a Headhunter (5.5), or four X-wings (4.8).

So the list isn't terribly fragile, but you're definitely trailing the lists that are very successful in the metagame. Successful lists with moderate to weak defense--Phantom/Decimator, double Falcons, maybe double Aggressors, etc.--usually have some arc-dodging tricks to keep them safe, or upgrades like Threepio that modify defense in nonlinear ways.

Looking at offense, you're also trailing most successful lists in the metagame--although again not by that much. Kavil usually has 4 dice, but he's limited to Predator to modify them. N'Dru gets 2 dice, or 3 + Lone Wolf if you separate him from the rest of your list (how often you get that depends on your chosen tactics and skill level). Torkil gets 3 dice but is capped at 1 damage, although Greedo boosts things a little against some lists. The Binayre Pirate has a predictable 2 Attack.

N'Dru's secondary weapons let him punch above his weight class a bit, but past experience with ordnance tells me it's not enough to make up the difference between him and other options at 28 points.

So your list has moderate defense (a bit on the fragile side), and has moderate offense (a bit on the weak side). It can definitely succeed, but I don't think it'll do so consistently.

TL;DR, What did I miss and how can I make this list a better all comers?

If you strip off all the upgrades, you have Kavil/N'Dru/Torkil/Pirate at 72 points. Knocking N'Dru down to a pair of Pirates improves your list's defense substantially, and leaves you with 21 points' worth of upgrades.

Kavil likes a Blaster Turret, and that combines quite gracefully with R4 Agromech for a total of 6 points. (We'll come back to his EPT.) Torkil wants either an Ion Cannon Turret or Blaster Turret + Recon Specialist, and the ICT is cheaper, so that's another 5 points with 10 points left for further upgrades.

Torkil is, like all HWKs, a bit on the squishy side. He's also going to be a high targeting priority for your opponent, so spending a couple of points on defense will probably help. Unfortunately the options are a 3-point Hull Upgrade, a 3-point Recon Specialist, or a 4-point Flight Instructor, and none of those are likely to earn back what they cost. Torkil stays nearly naked, because that way you at least don't lose too many points when he bites the dust.

What EPT does Kavil get? I always feel like Veteran Instincts is always at least an okay answer for someone who can get to PS9, because (particularly if you build your list to 98 or 99 points, for an initiative bid) it acts as Whisper-repellent. Taking a quick tour through a squad builder doesn't reveal any notably better candidates to my eye, so that leaves 9 points for upgrades.

It turns out we can afford N'Dru after all, and he might be useful. Lone Wolf is an excellent buy on him, since it gives you a strong advantage in the action economy and it has the same trigger as his pilot ability; promoting a Pirate to N'Dru + Lone Wolf costs 5 points, leaving just 4.

Of course there are always a lot of ways to spend just a handful of leftover points, but a couple jump out at me in a Scum list: Hotshot Blaster really is a decent buy on N'Dru, since it provides a bit of disincentive for arc-dodgers, and adding Feedback Array to the Pirates is a different mechanism with the same effect of providing a sure way to hurt anything that gets too close. The Hotshot makes N'Dru a bit expensive for his stat line, so I think I'll go with the bug-zappers.

The final tweaked list, then, looks like this:

Basically, it strips out some of the upgrades that aren't likely to earn back their cost, and spends them on another Pirate. It also spreads the upgrades out a bit, so that losing any one ship doesn't consume quite so many of your total points. It doesn't have the burst damage of N'Dru's Cluster Missiles, but it has more consistent damage output across the list, and it has a pilot-skill advantage that wasn't there before. It's also secured better against high-PS arc-dodging threats, since now they have to avoid not only Kavil's turret and Torkil's ions, but the bug-zappers as well. It also has a better defensive profile--now up to 5.6 TIE fighters' worth, which is a bit more competitive. I still don't know if it's great, but it should be a bit less of a boom-or-bust experience at the table.

Vorpal Sword: How are those defensive values calculated?

Vorpal Sword: How are those defensive values calculated?

D'oh. I thought I had a link to MJ's post in there, but either I forgot to paste it or I made a typo and the forum software helpfully removed the whole link. I edited it back into the post now, but if you don't feel like scrolling through again you can go here for the detailed explanation.

The short version, though, is that another poster has carefully worked out a weighted average of the number of attacks it takes to actually kill each ship's stat line (Agility/Hull/Shields). Then he divided everything by the average number of attacks it takes to kill a TIE fighter.

There are a few assumptions in there about what's attacking you and what actions are available to you when you're attacked, but what comes out the far end is an acceptable estimate of the overall durability of each ship, relative to the basic, no-nonsense TIE.

Vorpal - You ended up with Kaa'to Leeachos in your build instead of N'Dru. You'd need to drop either Lone Wolf or one of the Feedback Arrays to get N'Dru back.

Other than that, it was great illustration of the process of refining a list.

Vorpal - You ended up with Kaa'to Leeachos in your build instead of N'Dru. You'd need to drop either Lone Wolf or one of the Feedback Arrays to get N'Dru back.

Would you believe this is actually the second time I've done this, completely separate from the first? Apparently I have a blind spot.

I like the bug-zappers enough to keep them, and personally I have trouble keeping N'Dru's ability activated--and he's pretty good even without Lone Wolf. So I'll drop that EPT, making this the "right" version of the list: