You can give him a little humanity.

I don't think he's supposed to have any, that's what makes what Luke does so much more powerful. Vader had lost all his humanity, he was 99.99999% evil. Some quotes from Yoda...

“Yes, a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

“If you end your training now — if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did — you will become an agent of evil.”

“Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.”

Back to the original theory - I suppose Ben Kenobi doesn't actually have to FIGHT Vader - but I suppose he should be involved somehow. Vader should KNOW he is involved - which would somehow enrage him. Vader should think that Kenobi has turned Ahsoka against him, regardless of weather or not that is true.

The whole point is that Vader should kill Ahsoka, and blame Kenobi for it - fueling his hatred even further. I dislike the idea that Vader is simply pure evil - you have to give him more motive. Why was he so eager tos trike down Obi-Wan in Episode 4, regardless of the warnings over Obi-Wan becoming more powerful.... I'd like for it to be more than just the events of Episode 3..... and if you tack on Vader's perception that Kenobi was somehow responsible for Ahsoka's death - then you have a much more interesting way to view Episode 4, and a more understanding reaosn of why Vader kills Jedi - (Even though at this point he's probably hunted down a good number of them already).

We saw how quickly Anakin became twisted in ROTS. All of his talk about his Empire. This is Anakin who has been a Sith for 15 years. The suit itself distances himself from Anakin. Is he cackling evil like Palpatine, no. I've always liked the depictions of him as more restrained. And it is pretty clear that he is looking at supplanting his master soon.

Now, I doubt he is going go straight for the kill with Ahsoka. Heck, I expect a few good encounters between the two. I fully expect Vader to give Ahsoka the same spiel he gave Luke. I wouldn't be surprised if he brought in some extra help to try to turn her (I really hope Inquisitor Barris Offee happens). And I expect her to try to reach her former master. Only to fail. And I think Ahsoka, who was just as betrayed by the Jedi as he was, to refuse and even reject him will give him enough anger to kill her.

That, and reinforcing Luke's importance of redeeming Vader, rather than his anger at Obi-wan, is a much stronger narrative, imo. I mean, I think the whole Mustafar event showed how much Vader hates Obi-wan.

I can't help but think that the Star Wars story (considering that the movies are at the heart of it) would be cleaner without Ahsoka or the force sensitive cast of Rebels alive at the beginning of EP 4.

Most things in the movies fit (the prequels threw some spanners in the works) .. it seems that clone wars and rebels may muddy the waters a little.

Therefore, I will give full credit to Crabbok's theory.

Yeah, they are doing some wiggle room with interpretations. Ahsoka and Kanan are as Jedi as the Inquisitors are Sith.

The Inquistor's a dark side adept, not a Sith.

As for Vader killing Ahsoka, I don't think they're going to waste that opportunity. I doubt Kenobi will be involved though.

I can't help but think that the Star Wars story (considering that the movies are at the heart of it) would be cleaner without Ahsoka or the force sensitive cast of Rebels alive at the beginning of EP 4.

Most things in the movies fit (the prequels threw some spanners in the works) .. it seems that clone wars and rebels may muddy the waters a little.

Therefore, I will give full credit to Crabbok's theory.

It's nothing the EU hasn't done before. Seriously, there are quite a few surviving Jedi post ROTJ in the old EU (and waaaay too many in the old Legacy comics). Kanan and Ezra are not that big of an issue if they make it through the Civil War. Ahsoka, a little bit more of one, but I'm confident Vader will sever one more link to Anakin.

The bit that has always bugged me a little bit is...

"Obi-wan once thought as you do..."

Implies that Obi-wan made significant efforts after Anikin's fall to redeem him, not kill him, yet for all we have known, he has just been hanging out on Tatoonine for 20 years waiting for Luke to grow up and save the galaxy. If Rebels were to indicate/show that Ben left Tatooine on a few occasions to try and save Vader, and only gave up after he killed Ahsoka, that would work pretty well and make that line make more sense.

The "Obi-Wan" once thought as you do ..." refers to their exchange on Mustafar. Remember, by that time the jig was up for Anakin. He had already killed all the Jedi in the temple and Kenobi had the video of him kneeling before the Emperor accepting the mantle of Darth Vader.

The whole thing started with Obi-Wan trying to reason with him and bring him back by making him face the poor decisions he's made. As the fight goes on, Obi-wan's hope in redeeming him falters to the point that he (understandably) breaks down as he realizes that Anakin chose death over redemption. At this point, Vader knows that Obi-wan has given up on him and disappears (leading to the line "You should not have come back" - to Vader, this new encounter is a continuation of the duel on Mustafar, creating the context for the line "when I left you I was but the learner, now I am the Master")

This is also the source for my belief in it being a necessity for Ahsoka to encounter Vader again. To begin with, Dave Filoni said that he had known Ahsoka's arc since the early conversations he had with George Lucas when the Clone Wars was being developed. Ahsoka represents the only remaining "good thing" Anakin ever did, something that Darth Vader cannot allow.

when Luke confronts Vader on Endor (prior to him being taken before the Emperor) Luke tells him that he accepts that he was once Anakin Skywalker, his father. Vader replies "That name no longer has any meaning for me." This is incredibly powerful and shines a light on the motivations of the Sith Lord Darth Vader. It began when Obi-Wan so bluntly explained that Anakin's actions were the reason that Padme was driven from him. It begun in Padme's own words that she didn't even know who he was anymore. To cope with the atrocities that he performed, and as an extension of Palpatine's control over him, the identity of "Darth Vader" insulated him from the horrible things he was doing.

To protect himself from having to deal with the shame and guilt, a new identity is created to insulate the core persona. As Darth Vader, Anakin was able to perform horrible acts of genocide, destroy anything that he needed without remorse. However, as the persona of Vader was worn longer and longer, he needed it more and more. Anything important to Anakin Skywalker had to be destroyed - it was the only way that Anakin could avoid the guilt of remembering.

For Vader to find out Ahsoka is still alive, which is sure to happen with her role as leader of the Rebellion (stated in an interview with Ashleigh Eckstein), he would have to track her down (Jedi or no) to purge that part of Anakin. Moreover, since its stated she is a leader of the Rebellion, she can't remain by the time of movies - so I firmly believe that Ahsoka is heading towards a bad end.

This is also the significance of Luke. He represents Anakin's rebirth. He is not connected to Anakin's existence, but is rather a piece of Anakin that Vader though was already dead (in that Padme was supposed to have died while still pregnant). To find out that Luke is alive, rekindles a spark within Anakin. It's a new flame, not the old, which (with Kenobi's death) Vader believes is extinguished forever. Without all pieces of Anakin dead, Luke cannot be the "rebirth" of Anakin's spirit.

Yeah, the fight at the end of RotS doesn't convey the impression that obi-wan was trying to save anakin at all. It just comes across like he is listing the reasons WHY he is about to try and kill him.

I assume Kanan is dead by Ep 4 and Ezra has either fled the scene or is imprisoned. Something will have to happen to Ahsoka though. She can't go from being central to the Rebellion to being not even mentioned that fast without some serious damage, probably death.

I assume Kanan is dead by Ep 4 and Ezra has either fled the scene or is imprisoned. Something will have to happen to Ahsoka though. She can't go from being central to the Rebellion to being not even mentioned that fast without some serious damage, probably death.

The way I see it:

Ahsoka - Dead by Ep. 4

Kanan - More than likely dead by Ep. 4

Ezra - Wounded while getting the Death Star plans (maybe loses an arm in the grand Star Wars tradition), in recovery for the duration of Ep. 4.

It is my hope that Vader shows absolutely zero compassion, for anything, during these years. He should be twisted and evil to the maximum.

It is (or rather, should be) knowledge of his children that starts to bring him around, not the appearance of some Togruta he used to know, in my opinion.

That said, I'm Canadian and haven't seen the finale yet. I hope I won't be disappointed.

I still think that Hiro should have died at the end of Endless waltz (mutter mutter).

Anyway, Ahsoka needs to die. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. Will vader feel anything? Eh you know what I agree with Crabboks theory here. Vader time and time again has been known to show respect to his subordinates and even 'like' a few. He is especially fond of the clones he fought with.

Not fond in a fuzzy way, but in a mutual respect way. You even saw this in EP IV where he was conversing with an imperial officer on the tantive IV.

Vader time and time again has been known to show respect to his subordinates

Tell that to Admiral Ozzel and Captain Needa.

Ozzel was a buffoon who had it coming. Vader did the Empire a solid there.

Not too sure about Needa though, he seemed less justified.

The movies make way more sense with Kanan,Ezra, and Tano dead before episode 4. Yet... That's a very dark place for a kids cartoon to _end_ on.

The movies make way more sense with Kanan,Ezra, and Tano dead before episode 4. Yet... That's a very dark place for a kids cartoon to _end_ on.

I can see it as an ESB ending.

Weel hero has gone dark places and lost a hand, found out his dad is the big bad. Han is frozen and prisoner... buuut let's look out of the window looking hopeful.

Ahsoka, dead. Kanan Sacrificed himself so Ezra could get to a meeting on Alderaan regarding the death star plans.

The movies make way more sense with Kanan,Ezra, and Tano dead before episode 4. Yet... That's a very dark place for a kids cartoon to _end_ on.

Ahsoka could be killed relatively early in the series. Season 3 or 4, so the show wouldn't be "ending" on that (also, she would be at best, a recuring character, not a lead, so her death isn't as important to the series). I agree with Darius, Kanan dieing in a heroic sacrifice (ala Ben) to save Ezra makes perfect sense and would be dramatically and emotionally satisfying. I don't really have a problem with Ezra surviving, unless Kanan becomes a much better teacher than he has been so far Ezra won't be sufficiently trained to qualify as a Jedi. Future stories about Ezra first hearing rumors that a new Jedi has arisen and trying to find him, and then being one of Luke's first students would be decent NewEU plot material and good marketing sense for LFL/Disney.

Actually, what if .. WHAT IF the sequel series sparks interest in the OT, and we get star wars rebels following the adventures of Luke Skywalker, Leia, Han etc, and Ezra crosses with them for a bit?(but probably diedes - I personally think Ezra needs to die),

To be VERY clear I love Rebels as a series. But so far out of everyone shown, I think we should see a blakes7esque casualty rate.

Edit: Heru REALLY should have died at the end of endless waltz. Right when he tries to fire the gun and it goes "click" and he says "i've killed Mariemaia kushrenada, I no longer have to hurt anyone anymore" and he falls unconcious from his wounds. dammit he should have died there. Would have been better storytelling.

/end tangential rant about a series that is totally unrelated to starwars or x-wing.

I think instead of Kanan dieing to save Ezra..... I'd rather see Ezra die to save Kanan. That would hit me, the viewer, so much harder. Imagine Sabine crying, Hera is angry at Kanan for not saving him... and Kanan is just beside himself with grief that he smashes his lightsaber and vows to be a Jedi no more.

And then he changes his name to Kyle Katarn

I think instead of Kanan dieing to save Ezra..... I'd rather see Ezra die to save Kanan. That would hit me, the viewer, so much harder. Imagine Sabine crying, Hera is angry at Kanan for not saving him... and Kanan is just beside himself with grief that he smashes his lightsaber and vows to be a Jedi no more.

And then he changes his name to Kyle Katarn

Mind... blown, YES! DEATH TO SPACE ALADDIN!

Not so sure on the Kyle Katarn bit. but eh.

Man we love our childish space fantasy series to be dark...

I think instead of Kanan dieing to save Ezra..... I'd rather see Ezra die to save Kanan. That would hit me, the viewer, so much harder. Imagine Sabine crying, Hera is angry at Kanan for not saving him... and Kanan is just beside himself with grief that he smashes his lightsaber and vows to be a Jedi no more.

And then he changes his name to Kyle Katarn

The problem is that he's already done that. Like: I _love_ your story, right up until Dark Forces when he comes out of Jedi retirement yet again.

No one likes a Jedi yoyo.

I, for one, hope they don't kill any of the big Star Wars Rebels characters: Ashoka, Kanan, Ezra, Hera, Zev, Sabine or even Chopper. Especially Ashoka, with over 100 episodes in her story arc. They're all great characters and there's no reason why they can't coexist in a galaxy with Luke, Leia, Han and Chewbacca. The Galactic Empire is immense. The Rebellion is also much larger than the groups you see in the battles of Yavin, Hoth and Endor.

The Galactic Empire's territory at its peak consisted of some one and a half million member and conquered worlds, as well as sixty-nine million colonies, protectorates and puppet states spread throughout the entire galaxy, stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to at least Wild Space.

It's a kid's cartoon, not Game of Thrones. And Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi would not have been a better story if a character like Chewbacca or Han Solo died. Or even Lando.

Yeah, Filoni has sort of killed this theory.

http://www.starwars.com/news/interview-dave-filoni-on-star-wars-rebels-part-3

Ahsoka is not going to be reawakening anything of Anakin.

The movies make way more sense with Kanan,Ezra, and Tano dead before episode 4. Yet... That's a very dark place for a kids cartoon to _end_ on.

I can see it as an ESB ending.

Weel hero has gone dark places and lost a hand, found out his dad is the big bad. Han is frozen and prisoner... buuut let's look out of the window looking hopeful.

Ahsoka, dead. Kanan Sacrificed himself so Ezra could get to a meeting on Alderaan regarding the death star plans.

This brings up a great point: None of the crew have to be explicitly shown to be dead at the end of the series.

Location: ALDERAAN

Kanan - Here is the information you asked for. It looks like plans for a... space station, or a battle station, or something. A small man-made moon?

Rebel Leader (Princess Leia maybe?) - Great work getting this to us. We'll put it to immediate use. We don't have a new assignment for you right now, so stay on Alderaan, rest up, and we'll call you. (Leaves to take plans to the higher-ups in the Rebellion)

Yeah, Filoni has sort of killed this theory.

http://www.starwars.com/news/interview-dave-filoni-on-star-wars-rebels-part-3

Ahsoka is not going to be reawakening anything of Anakin.

No he absolutely did not. Sure he says Vader is evil at this point, but he goes on to say this:

It’s interesting to look at how he might relate to Ahsoka now. She is a living memory of who he was. Even worse, she knew the good person he was.

Which means he may not have written their confrontation yet, or if he has he doens't want to reveal any spoilers. It coudl go any which way at this point. My theory stands.

Dave Filoni: I have always believed that Vader has no repetent bone in his body until he realizes his son is alive.

Vader is not going to be swayed be Ahsoka being alive. That is my entire issue with your theory. It devalues Luke's importance to Vader's redemption. As Filoni said, Ahsoka is not going to be igniting any spark of good. Vader is not going to be angry that he killed Ahsoka. If anything he is going to kill her because she is a living memory of his past.

Now, I am seeing this drama play out over multitude episodes. Ahsoka will try to reach Anakin. Vader will try to turn her to the dark side.