With all the recent banning I feel that All has taken a big shot between the legs. This symbol in the matter of 4 weeks has gone from one of the best symbols in the game to an ok symbol now. I know everybody is going to say that all still has Reppa and BRT, but I feel that it lost way to much to still be effective. Tell me what you guys think

what I always thought was the premier mono-all deck, Turn It On + Dark Force Mirage Body, doesn't really lose anything. Lack of chester's is annoying, but to be honest, that just means you can stick a different, lower difficulty foundation in otherwise, and bitter rivals is also just a useful tool to hit with the combo, but can be easily replaced with Saikyo-Ryu.

The other main All deck I can think of is Zangief mill, which can still pull a lot of tricks, and has access to Void and Earth for it's negation instead of Chester's. Olcadan's just means you can't stack free foundations into my staging area :-P

so did all take a bit of a power loss? yes, but not bad enough to lose it's status as a tough symbol, maybe ranked A tier now instead of S tier.

riotmaker said:

All hasn't been good since it lost Addes Syndicate, MRank and Revitalize.

Get with the times.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Then you must have never seen a an All Alex deck before the Bannings happen.

I've read dutpotd's Nationals report =)

I have never ever cared about Alex. Ever.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Thanks for reading ^^ , and for never caring about a character like Alex, your sweeping statement, I'm sure, lands in the same category as your hate for Mina's ultimate sucess.

You are right though, ALL, although competitive, has not been a power symbol for a while - at least in comparison to evil/order/air - I would argue it did, however, stand out as the 4th best symbol tied with fire and a few others pre bans.

But as Q said here, All didn't need BR, Olc, LotM, Chesters, or other cards to do it's dirty work (kill). It used them more as a counter to the fact that the other symbols better than it also used them.

What ALL does suffer from now is the re-release of MAC, which quite simply hurts it's better characters, which, for the most part have 6 hs and require draw to compete. Herr is an anomole here, but could be better off of water/evil, arguably. Also, life and void will be played more often post Olcadon's, and both of their competitive aspects will likely run Tough Outer Shell if not mainboard, then side.

ALL does gain a lot from the bannings though, perhaps more than any other symbol. That is, that with Olcadon's gone it doesn't need to worry about getting all it's 4 cards in play that stop it out (4 X Controller...)

ALL will still be a competitor as a lot of symbols now are. But I think ALL will be stopped quite adeqautely by DEATH, to the point where it will not be able to win a competitive tourney anytime soon (pre the release of more characters with 7hs, or the drop of 7hs come rotation).

- dut

All was decent at nats but with the loss of so many cards from june and july its going to be interesting of how the symbol can bounce back.

i think the banning of olcadon's and chun li help all almost as much as the bannings of chester and bitter rivals hurt the symbol. all is still a decent symbol, but i think it dropped from forth or 5th best symbol, to mid tier.

dutpotd said:

ehhh wat? Life had no counters to Mentoring, and Life didn't lose Chester's, Bitter Rivals (which was, in my eyes, a better tool for defense than offense), or LotM either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like with all of its draw power All would have a decent matchup against Hanzokick and Spiral Arrow decks (outbuild them). Losing Chester's and Olcadan's leaves All with few ways to directly remove problems -- discounting one-time things like Psycho Focus' action or Pommel Smash -- and I certainly think some other symbols had harder times dealing with cards which are now banned than All did. For example, Life had 0 answers to Mentoring, lots of ways to lose to Hanzokick (BRT + Rivals, discard, or the normal "ran out of midblocks"), a hard time with Spiral Arrow (very hard to stop it from dealing damage around BRT+tapped board, unexceptional building speed), and on top of everything no strong win conditions (while now, with the bans, it went from "horrible options" to "roughly average options" for its win)

Wafflecopter said:

I said 'perhaps more than any other symbol' . Life certainly gained an equivalent amount or more... All does have a decent matchup against Hanzokick and Arrow, you are right. Keep in mind, Life did have asset destruction to proactively protect against Olcadon's... But yeah, I agree Life is still is better off Owl gone than any other symbol (well Water too I suppose).

All's strength lies not in dealing with problems but outbuilding with draw to overcome answers to it's kill condition early and hard. At least, that is my opinion. It hasn't been an answer symbol for a while, so the bannings don't greatly change the way it has to play. That was my only point.

Sorry, emphasis was on the 'perhaps'.

- dut

"Thanks for reading ^^ , and for never caring about a character like Alex, your sweeping statement, I'm sure, lands in the same category as your hate for Mina's ultimate sucess."

Also, what just happen to all?

Someone set it up the bomb.

^^Lol, Spanish coding studios

you guys have no idea about all man, this symbol is still monstorous. it lost alot of cards but it's still crazy good and has two of the best characters in the game, alex and sakura. don't forget it

Scott Gaines said:

Dont forget about Jon Herr either scooter.

Scubadude said:

Yeah don't!!!

But seriously, good characters like Herr only get better when the power level of contending/supporting cards goes down. i.e. his ability, all things considered, is that much better. And I think, an straight Evil deck might do better to dip into one or two ALL cards...

- dut

I think the thing that hurt all the most was losing its only source of momentum gen. Aside from lotm I cant think of any other mom gen all has.

Scott Gaines said:

Mr Scott Gaines

You, sir, win the award for most generous UFS player ever. Seriously. Every time you comment, you say nothing but positive things, no matter the issue.

Well you usually only say negative things =P so it balances out.

I agree with you scott, I feel that reppa is still effective, but not as good as it once was in all. I i think if you can off symbol a momentum gen then reppa will be awesome again.

riotmaker said:

honestly reppa is much better in void.

trane said:

Reppa is always good void /order /all doesnt matter.

Reppa...

On All, it goes HOT with Fight or Flight. Pick my hand out of the next twelve freakin' cards on my deck? AWW YEAH

On Order, it turns into a usable kill condition with Personal Style. Spam 4 foundations with blocks down, Reppa, 4M12 + 4M12? Not bad, not really amazing either though considering the amount of setup (and you need a 10 on the Reppa lol)

On both Void and All, you can use Reppa to enable some hot abuse of cards like Saikyo Ryu and Unorthodox Training. You lose cards, I get mine all back (because you couldn't block!)

On mono-Void... dunno

On all three, you get one seriously solid attack, that will (if left unchecked) give you big time card, momentum, and vitality advantages. Two Reppas with Multiple will do the job against a majority of the decks you'll see at tournaments (if past events are any indication). One Reppa basically gives you another Draw Step in the middle of your turn, to help you find whatever you need (or just refill your hand for Experienced Combatant or whatever lol). At the very least... it's a 6 difficulty, "your opponent plays a block, major damage reduction, or block-generating ability... or you get a big advantage on them."

Wafflecopter said:

on void you clear both players hands with twop, unorthodox style, etc and then you draw posibly 9 cards while your opponent style has no hand. last regional my void deck could cycle turn 3 because of reppa. this card is void's best tool.

Solstice said:

But...he's SOOOOO SAAAAAPPY!!!! I can't taaaake it =/