I'm not usually one to post a "this thing is broken" thread, but the flechette cannon has got me thinking it might be too good.

1. 3 red dice, accuracy is good.

2. hits out to range 3

3. no minimum range like torpedo

4. No hull point restriction like flechette torp.

5. It only costs 2 points. no need for target lock, you can use it repeatedly, etc.

Only downside I see is you cannot stack stress on a target.

So, this upgrade seems to make flechette torpedoes nearly obsolete. Only situations i could see it would be Nera Dantels or maybe a Y-wing that cannot take the cannon. Seems a little too good for 2 points to me.

now R3-A2 is awesome for giving stress, is only 2 points, and you don't even have to hit what you are shotting at, but it also gives the attacker a stress, oh, and he's unique.

I think M3-As with these are going to be a nightmare. control used to be expensive, now it is dirt cheap.

What do the rest of you think?

And even though it has 3 attack dice on 1 damage occurs if hit.

Not so bad really?

It's great, but if you miss that's it, you did nothing. And on M-3As doing nothing will get you killed fast.

It's great on Aggressors if you have B/B in the squad. If he misses with it, he can attack with it again/another cannon. Or the same if his normal attack missed.

Ask yourself, is Ion Cannon broken too because they do the same thing except ion instead of stress.

I think that trying to put a Flechette Cannon on an

X-Wing

Y-Wing

E-Wing

TIE Bomber

Decimator

StarViper

would raise some eyebrows and get you kicked out of a tournament. So that is that concerning the possible obsolescence of Flechette torpedoes.

And as for your worries about the Scyks, I think you overestimate their chances.

It's still only stress. The reason Ion cannon are more expensive is because it makes the next turn very predictable. Stress me with that cannon and think I'll be taking a green immediately? I might, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The Flechette cannon won't stack the stress, which is a very (read VERY) big limitation. Torpedoes will, so will R3A2, and neither of those require you to hit in order to be effective.

The twin limitations of non-stacking stress and needing to hit (compared to torps and droid) are much too significant to gloss over.

I think it is priced fairly. Ion Cannons have all the same advantages but deal an Ion token instead of a stress and only cost one point more yet we don't see them everywhere. Having an inexpensive two attack ship that can carry cannons should make the Ion and Flechette Cannons more common if the 2 point tax for the title doesn't prove to be too unattractive.

true, but you are not taking a red, and if you don't do a green, you are losing an action too. Ion does force the one straight, but that's all it does. you still get your action, but you do not if you are stressed. a big difference in this game, I think, and ion cannon costs 50% more, does not effect large ships unless you hit them on 2 different turns, etc.

More than anything else, now you can stress and ion cheaply and repeatedly, turn after turn.

true, but you are not taking a red, and if you don't do a green, you are losing an action too. Ion does force the one straight, but that's all it does. you still get your action, but you do not if you are stressed. a big difference in this game, I think, and ion cannon costs 50% more, does not effect large ships unless you hit them on 2 different turns, etc.

More than anything else, now you can stress and ion cheaply and repeatedly, turn after turn.

If it's a matter of surviving or taking an action, you can bet your autothrusters I'll be streaking out of there like a wamprat with its tail on fire. While telling my opponent where I'm going to be the next round can be far more damaging, giving him all the opportunity to get out of my arc while keeping me in his.

true, but you are not taking a red, and if you don't do a green, you are losing an action too. Ion does force the one straight, but that's all it does. you still get your action, but you do not if you are stressed. a big difference in this game, I think, and ion cannon costs 50% more, does not effect large ships unless you hit them on 2 different turns, etc.

More than anything else, now you can stress and ion cheaply and repeatedly, turn after turn.

If Flechette Cannons were any more expensive I don't think they'd get used. As it is I think that they will be a choice that fits a specific niche and won't see wide use. To effectively use stress as a weapon you need the ability to stack it. We'll probably see some builds that use Flechettes that also have a way to dish out Ion damage, some builds that use Flechette Cannons and Tactician to double stress, and Defenders that take Flechette Cannons to prevent anything that tries to joust them from K-Turning but I don't think it will be a common upgrade, even at two points.

We will need some table time to tell the tale I suppose. I agree that it is an important limitation that you can't stack stress, even with multiple attacks.

I'm not a huge fan of flechette cannon. Despite the limitations, I'd rather have the torp or tactician (or R3-A2 on the appropriate ships) because they stack and/or can be used as normal sources of damage (The torp less reliably since it eats your lock, but tactician and R3-A2 still let you do full damage while stressing)

Now, if I'm expecting one damage anyway (range 3 shot most like) then there's no reason not to take the flechette but imo the Ion cannon is far more devastating against anything that doesn't have a large/epic base

The Flechette cannon won't stack the stress, which is a very (read VERY) big limitation. Torpedoes will, so will R3A2, and neither of those require you to hit in order to be effective.

The twin limitations of non-stacking stress and needing to hit (compared to torps and droid) are much too significant to gloss over.

Three limitations, really: you need to hit, you can't use it stack stress, and its damage is capped just like the ion cannon is.

true, but you are not taking a red, and if you don't do a green, you are losing an action too. Ion does force the one straight, but that's all it does. you still get your action, but you do not if you are stressed. a big difference in this game, I think, and ion cannon costs 50% more, does not effect large ships unless you hit them on 2 different turns, etc.

More than anything else, now you can stress and ion cheaply and repeatedly, turn after turn.

It's true that the Ion Cannon costs 50% more, but it also costs 1 point more. More to the point, would you run a Flechette Cannon at 3 points? Maybe, but an ion token is much more restrictive than a stress token, so if they were the same cost I think most people run the Flechette Cannon only if they already have lots of ions in a list.

And yes, you can stress and ion repeatedly, turn after turn, but I challenge "cheaply". The very cheapest option is to run two Scyk Interceptors, where one with stress and one with ion costs 37 points. Of course, one or both can still miss, and Scyks are pretty fragile. You can buff the Scyks' durability pretty effectively with a pair of Hull Upgrades, at which point your "cheap" control costs you 43 points, or you can pair them up with Serissu, which puts you at 57 points before you consider a cannon for her.

(You could do a list with 2x Cartel Spacer + Heavy Scyk Interceptor + Flechette Cannon, 2x Cartel Spacer + Heavy Scyk Interceptor + Ion Cannon, and Serissu + Heavy Scyk Interceptor + Mangler Cannon. But that list has 15 total hit points, bad PS, and relatively bad damage output.)

In a Rebel list, you can get both stress and ions for 49 points, and B-wings are anything but fragile. But that's still half your list, so it's hard to call it cheap. And in an Imperial list, your cheapest option is 47 points, and that's on a pair of otherwise naked Omicron Group Pilots.

The only legitimate use for Flechette Cannons I've ever seen is on a B-Wing paired up with Tactician. That's 27 points of something that can potentially double stress.

But, come Scum, if you want a good double stress build for Rebels then a Y-Wing with an Ion, Title and R3-A2 is not only 2 points less but also will ALWAYS be able to double stress, AND might even Ion the target as well.

The only downside is that A2 is unique so you can't field an entire squadron of four, and you will NEVER see that ship take an action with all of the stress it will be gaining.

The only legitimate use for Flechette Cannons I've ever seen is on a B-Wing paired up with Tactician. That's 27 points of something that can potentially double stress.

But, come Scum, if you want a good double stress build for Rebels then a Y-Wing with an Ion, Title and R3-A2 is not only 2 points less but also will ALWAYS be able to double stress, AND might even Ion the target as well.

The only downside is that A2 is unique so you can't field an entire squadron of four, and you will NEVER see that ship take an action with all of the stress it will be gaining.

Just fly the Gold Squadron Pilot with Title, Ion Cannon Turret, R3-A2 together with Dutch Vander and Garven Dreis. Thats 74 points, and you might want to add a Turret on Dutch as well, but hey. How many stress tokens can you pile on the Gold Squadron Pilot, while still having a Focus and Target Lock each turn?

The only legitimate use for Flechette Cannons I've ever seen is on a B-Wing paired up with Tactician. That's 27 points of something that can potentially double stress.

But, come Scum, if you want a good double stress build for Rebels then a Y-Wing with an Ion, Title and R3-A2 is not only 2 points less but also will ALWAYS be able to double stress, AND might even Ion the target as well.

The only downside is that A2 is unique so you can't field an entire squadron of four, and you will NEVER see that ship take an action with all of the stress it will be gaining.

Just fly the Gold Squadron Pilot with Title, Ion Cannon Turret, R3-A2 together with Dutch Vander and Garven Dreis. Thats 74 points, and you might want to add a Turret on Dutch as well, but hey. How many stress tokens can you pile on the Gold Squadron Pilot, while still having a Focus and Target Lock each turn?

I wouldn't advocate slapping double stress on a ship with 2 green maneuvers and an arc. R3-A2 on a title-less ion Y is incredibly legit (basically a big middle finger to whatever it shoots) but on a titled Y it seems a bit silly

The only legitimate use for Flechette Cannons I've ever seen is on a B-Wing paired up with Tactician. That's 27 points of something that can potentially double stress.

But, come Scum, if you want a good double stress build for Rebels then a Y-Wing with an Ion, Title and R3-A2 is not only 2 points less but also will ALWAYS be able to double stress, AND might even Ion the target as well.

The only downside is that A2 is unique so you can't field an entire squadron of four, and you will NEVER see that ship take an action with all of the stress it will be gaining.

Just fly the Gold Squadron Pilot with Title, Ion Cannon Turret, R3-A2 together with Dutch Vander and Garven Dreis. Thats 74 points, and you might want to add a Turret on Dutch as well, but hey. How many stress tokens can you pile on the Gold Squadron Pilot, while still having a Focus and Target Lock each turn?

I wouldn't advocate slapping double stress on a ship with 2 green maneuvers and an arc. R3-A2 on a title-less ion Y is incredibly legit (basically a big middle finger to whatever it shoots) but on a titled Y it seems a bit silly

But Dutch lets another ship acquire a target lock, not perform a target lock action. And Garven passes his token, so again no action is needed. And it is perfectly legal to fly a white manoeuvre, even while stressed. And the Y-Wing has a white 2 turn, so what's the problem? (I'm not saying that this will be a good list. Fun, maybe.)

And I don't think the flechette cannon will be too powerful. The biggest drawback with it is imo that you cannot stack the stress. So why would you need more than one cannon in your list? It also has the damage cap, which means shooting at something which is already stressed caps your damage at one. While it is certainly better to do one damage than no damage, I would not put more than one in a list, and then it costs the same as R3-A2.

I don't think it's too powerful. The ships that can use it would probably rather have something else on it. I think the biggest use for it will be on IG-88. Why not spend 2 more pts on the off chance you can use it? It's not like there isn't another cannon slot for the Ion Cannon, too.

I like em for two points they are a decent option for stressing large ships after all a falcons less scary when it can't dodge, it can force phantoms into green moves limiting its options etc.

If you could stack stress it'd need to be way more expensive to the point it would be worthless doing one damage.

One on a scyk is not a bad option, or on a defender or b-wing for that matter.

The only legitimate use for Flechette Cannons I've ever seen is on a B-Wing paired up with Tactician. That's 27 points of something that can potentially double stress.

But, come Scum, if you want a good double stress build for Rebels then a Y-Wing with an Ion, Title and R3-A2 is not only 2 points less but also will ALWAYS be able to double stress, AND might even Ion the target as well.

The only downside is that A2 is unique so you can't field an entire squadron of four, and you will NEVER see that ship take an action with all of the stress it will be gaining.

Just fly the Gold Squadron Pilot with Title, Ion Cannon Turret, R3-A2 together with Dutch Vander and Garven Dreis. Thats 74 points, and you might want to add a Turret on Dutch as well, but hey. How many stress tokens can you pile on the Gold Squadron Pilot, while still having a Focus and Target Lock each turn?

I wouldn't advocate slapping double stress on a ship with 2 green maneuvers and an arc. R3-A2 on a title-less ion Y is incredibly legit (basically a big middle finger to whatever it shoots) but on a titled Y it seems a bit silly

But Dutch lets another ship acquire a target lock, not perform a target lock action. And Garven passes his token, so again no action is needed. And it is perfectly legal to fly a white manoeuvre, even while stressed. And the Y-Wing has a white 2 turn, so what's the problem? (I'm not saying that this will be a good list. Fun, maybe.)

it's not about dutch/garven/actions etc, it's the arc-requirement for the ion turret will be a problem

the R3-A2 arc is unavoidable (it is your destiny) but once you can stress and ion a bastard, you can probably maintain that ion + stress with naked dice alone. You can't maintain that ion + stress if you don't have a shot, and since you can't K-turn or 3 turn while stressed it;s going to be far more difficult to guarantee those shots than it would be if you didn't have to worry about your arc.

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it's not about dutch/garven/actions etc, it's the arc-requirement for the ion turret will be a problem

the R3-A2 arc is unavoidable (it is your destiny) but once you can stress and ion a bastard, you can probably maintain that ion + stress with naked dice alone. You can't maintain that ion + stress if you don't have a shot, and since you can't K-turn or 3 turn while stressed it;s going to be far more difficult to guarantee those shots than it would be if you didn't have to worry about your arc.

I'm not quite sure if I get this right. For the first round, I have to get my opponent in my arc, since R3-A2 only triggers in arc. If I dont have the title, I can ion someone out of arc and hopefully point in the right direction the next turn, so I can then ion and stress him, right? And therefore I might need the K-turn, so its better not to be stressed? If that's what you mean, okay, I can see that.

The Flechette Cannon can only monostress and shove a ship onto its green dial (Flechette Torpedo, Tactician, Rebel Captive and R3-A2 can load up multiple tokens to deny actions), it's a 3 dice cannon and all cannon ships bar two have three dice primaries anyway. It's good but you're buying the denial of the bonus Range 3 die and the stress effect (also switching your support over from Howlrunner to Jonus), not any extra damage.

On the M3-A it's very good but costs 4, and on the Outrider you're paying so much already you might as well push up to Mangler or HLC.

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it's not about dutch/garven/actions etc, it's the arc-requirement for the ion turret will be a problem

the R3-A2 arc is unavoidable (it is your destiny) but once you can stress and ion a bastard, you can probably maintain that ion + stress with naked dice alone. You can't maintain that ion + stress if you don't have a shot, and since you can't K-turn or 3 turn while stressed it;s going to be far more difficult to guarantee those shots than it would be if you didn't have to worry about your arc.

I'm not quite sure if I get this right. For the first round, I have to get my opponent in my arc, since R3-A2 only triggers in arc. If I dont have the title, I can ion someone out of arc and hopefully point in the right direction the next turn, so I can then ion and stress him, right? And therefore I might need the K-turn, so its better not to be stressed? If that's what you mean, okay, I can see that.

all I mean is that you get the guy in arc and hopefully stress/ion him

the next turn, you're limited to certain maneuvers and you might not be able to face the Y-wing to get a shot off. Now this means you won't get R3-A2, but you'll probably still get your turret shot. If you ionize the action-less ship again, it'll stay ioned and stressed for the next turn (because of the white 1 forward maneuver). If you have title, however, and can't get the guy in arc...

5. It only costs 2 points. no need for target lock, you can use it repeatedly, etc.

I think M3-As with these are going to be a nightmare. control used to be expensive, now it is dirt cheap.

On an M3-A, it costs 4 points, not 2. At double the cost of R3-A2 or flechette torps, I don't think dirt cheap is an appropriate summary.

Ion does force the one straight, but that's all it does. you still get your action, but you do not if you are stressed.

Playing devil's advocate here, ion makes you incredibly predictable and easy to block, therefore easier to stop actions.

and ion cannon costs 50% more, does not effect large ships unless you hit them on 2 different turns, etc.

...or ion them twice in one turn

More than anything else, now you can stress and ion cheaply and repeatedly, turn after turn.

2 B-wings w/ Flechette cannon, Tactician

2 Y-wings w/ ion cannon turrets, BTL-A4