IG-88/IG-2000 timing question based on simultaneous attacks.

By Froomja, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Had this happen in the Store Championship today and we didn't have a clear answer so we diced it. I was running two IG-88's (B and D) against Echo and Kenkirk (all ships were Pilot Skill 6), and my opponent has initiative. IG-88B is facing the table edge with no enemies in this arc of sight, and Echo was in arc of IG-88D. My opponent shoots fights and deals enough damage to destroy IG-88B. I take my shots at the same Pilot Skill, normally I would shoot with IG-88D first since the other ship would be removed from play as soon as it shoots (as per the rules of simultaneous attacking); however since IG-88B has no shots (nothing in is firing arc) would he be removed right away, or after I 'shoot' with him since he would have the chance to attack back? This is relevant as IG-88D would have the gunner-esque rerolls if IG-88B is still alive.

Edited by Froomja

since you do not remove the ship until it has had its opportunity to attack it stays and you can use the ability.

You can't determine if it has a legal target until it is allowed to measure as part of the attack sequence

You choose which ship to attack with, and that isn't affected by whether or not a certain ship has a target.

In fact, until you select IG-88B to attack you don't actually know, from a game state perspective, whether or not he has any targets. You may be able to look at it any know he doesn't, but the GAME doesn't know until you have the opportunity to measure targets, and you can only do that in the Declare Target step.

But the simple answer to your question is that you choose the order to attack with your ships at the same PS, and there are no rules that enforce a particular order to that choice.

That's a crazy situation to have come up. I agree, that until you "activate" that ship's firing sequence, it remains on the board because of the simultaneous fire rule. It isn't removed until it's finished shooting, which, in this case, happens after the still-alive guy shoots.

Think of it in real-time. D is shooting as the shots towards B are still flying through space; therefore, at the time D shoots, B is still alive (though he's probably freaking out)

Curve ball: Would IG-88B is on a rock, and therefore won't get to attack. Does simultaneous fire still keep him on the board until his activation?

Edit 2: The question seems to boil down to: Does a ship on an obstacle activate during the Combat Phase? Or is it simply skipped?

This could have some implications on the Feedback Array debate :P

Edit: Relevant Rule Book sections...


Simultaneous Attack Rule

Although ships perform their attacks one at a time, ships with a pilot skill value equal to the active ship’s pilot skill value have the opportunity to attack before being destroyed.

If such a ship would be destroyed, it simply retains its Damage cards without being removed from the play area. It may perform an attack as normal during the Combat phase, although any faceup Damage cards just dealt to it may affect this attack.

After this ship has had its opportunity to attack this round, it is immediately destroyed and removed from the play area.

Obstacles

[...]

Important: When overlapping an obstacle token, the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token). A ship that is overlapping an obstacle token during the Combat phase cannot attack any ship but may be targeted by other ships as normal.

Edited by Klutz

Curve ball: Would IG-88B is on a rock, and therefore won't get to attack. Does simultaneous fire still keep him on the board until his activation?

Edit 2: The question seems to boil down to: Does a ship on an obstacle activate during the Combat Phase? Or is it simply skipped?

If you go down this road it's possible that a ship on an obstacle when it is destroyed via Simultaneous Fire may possibly not die until next turn :D

I think you have to select the ship in order whether it can attack or not. You pick the one on the rock, it can't attack, you move on to the next (removing that one, if it was lingering due to simultaneous fire). If you assume it's skipped entirely, it never has an "opportunity" to attack, and you get the zombie ship that sticks around until it gets that last shot in.

If you go down this road it's possible that a ship on an obstacle when it is destroyed via Simultaneous Fire may possibly not die until next turn :D

Hehe.

Curve ball: Would IG-88B is on a rock, and therefore won't get to attack. Does simultaneous fire still keep him on the board until his activation?

Edit 2: The question seems to boil down to: Does a ship on an obstacle activate during the Combat Phase? Or is it simply skipped?

If you go down this road it's possible that a ship on an obstacle when it is destroyed via Simultaneous Fire may possibly not die until next turn :D

I think you have to select the ship in order whether it can attack or not. You pick the one on the rock, it can't attack, you move on to the next (removing that one, if it was lingering due to simultaneous fire). If you assume it's skipped entirely, it never has an "opportunity" to attack, and you get the zombie ship that sticks around until it gets that last shot in.

Seems right.