4 defence dice with an evade token and possibly AT evades is.

4 Dice with an Evade token can fail and does quite often. Even if you only put 2 damage on him, he's that much closer to dead on the next attack. Plus then he only has 3 dice for that next attack.

AT on the other hand, offers very little other than against turret weapons, which are fairly common but are not the only thing in the game. For a number of lists you'll see AT upgrades being nothing more but free points for the other person.

I like the concept of autothrusters, but I kind of wish it only impacted out of arc gunfire like turrets.

It kind of feels like, if I have say an X-Wing and I manage to get a ship with a boost and barrel roll in my sights, I've outmaneuvered the opposing pilot. If we are at range three I don't think I should be punished and he should be rewarded.

The last thing our trusty T-65s needed was an indirect nerf (albeit for a limited number of ships). Easy enough to house rule that piece out, I suppose.

But yeah, on some level, this type of change was needed.

I like the concept of autothrusters, but I kind of wish it only impacted out of arc gunfire like turrets.

It kind of feels like, if I have say an X-Wing and I manage to get a ship with a boost and barrel roll in my sights, I've outmaneuvered the opposing pilot. If we are at range three I don't think I should be punished and he should be rewarded.

The last thing our trusty T-65s needed was an indirect nerf (albeit for a limited number of ships). Easy enough to house rule that piece out, I suppose.

But yeah, on some level, this type of change was needed.

Perhaps but the nice thing about Autothrusters is that interceptors and A-Wings at least can close even better on Huge/Epic ships.

TIE fighters swarm and X-Wings have shields.

Back to trying to call people homers eh, didn't stick last time won't stick now.

Can someone explain this 'homers' malarky?

I get that it's a thinly veiled insult, I just don't understand why.

Because when people are confronted with a point of view that is incompatible with theirs, often they try to denigrate that point of view instead of having a logical debate (or because no logical debate is possible). They denigrate it because they need to reassure themselves that they are correct in their position - after all, if you're holding the wrong point of view, why do you even have it? Being wrong is the same as being a bad person, right? (protip: it isn't)

It's much easier to label someone defending a ship as a "fanboy" or "homer" than it is to have a rational, thought out discussion, firstly because it's quicker to type as a reply, and therefore less effort for you. Secondly, because it doesn't make you vulnerable to being proved wrong. Thirdly, it lets you get a vicarious thrill out of insulting complete strangers, either because it's a behaviour you would never actually engage in if you were face to face with your verbal opponent, or because you spent your early life being bullied and insulted yourself, and you feel the need to restore balance to the universe by lashing out now that you're older.

Or you could actually just be 11 years old. It's hard to say.

Regardless, the term "homer" being used in a derogatory fashion is not something I, or I hope, most people, want to see proliferating on these forums. Before you type it out I suggest you punch yourself in the face instead, and keep your close-minded bull**** in your own head, instead of inflicting it on everyone else.

I think auto thrusters could have been a point more or at least only work once round. But honestly I don't mind. I enjoy collecting the tears of interceptor players and I will gladly remove 1/3 of there list with my Vader decimator.

I like the concept of autothrusters, but I kind of wish it only impacted out of arc gunfire like turrets.

Then it would be useless if a turret didn't show, which is bad game design.

It kind of feels like, if I have say an X-Wing and I manage to get a ship with a boost and barrel roll in my sights, I've outmaneuvered the opposing pilot. If we are at range three I don't think I should be punished and he should be rewarded.

If he's sticking at Range 3 you've got three defence dice. I can say from experience that Autothrusters isn't really worth its two points fighting with a primary against arcships alone. For the interceptor arc dodging is a close range game. An autothrusting Interceptor can stick at R3 for its evade result but it's going to get shot at a lot more if it tries it.

Back to trying to call people homers eh, didn't stick last time won't stick now.

Can someone explain this 'homers' malarky?

I get that it's a thinly veiled insult, I just don't understand why.

He's trying to make it a thing and everyone else just finds it comical. His first post on the forum was branding everyone who's ever played Imperial ships as it. He also takes anything said against the Falcon personally. Autothrusters is apparently a crippling nerf to it that will remove it from the game.

Just say "D'oh!" and move on.

I think auto thrusters could have been a point more or at least only work once round. But honestly I don't mind. I enjoy collecting the tears of interceptor players and I will gladly remove 1/3 of there list with my Vader decimator.

The funniest/saddest moment of Store Championship weekend for me was walking up to a table where an Imperial/Imperial game had just wrapped, and there was a Soontir Fel with three face-up critical hits next to a face-up Stealth Device.

To be honest, I think Soontir might still be underpowered. His reliance on Push the Limit and actions for defense are his biggest weaknesses. There are way too many ways to inflict extra stress and automatic damage (especially automatic critical damage) in the game right now for him to be reliable.

You're all complaining about too many green dice..........

Have any of you ever rolled green dice before? Do you know what they do sometimes?

The answer, as many will attest, is break statistical variance and randomness because green dice are filled with spite and bitterness, and turn up 5 blank results. Way more often than they should. That happens once per game, and one decent red roll kills Fel flat out.

You're all complaining about too many green dice..........

Have any of you ever rolled green dice before? Do you know what they do sometimes?

The answer, as many will attest, is break statistical variance and randomness because green dice are filled with spite and bitterness, and turn up 5 blank results. Way more often than they should. That happens once per game, and one decent red roll kills Fel flat out.

I figured out your problem. You are assuming that your opponent's green dice will fail as often as your green dice do. However, your opponent will always be much, much better than you are at rolling green dice.

You're all complaining about too many green dice..........

Have any of you ever rolled green dice before? Do you know what they do sometimes?

The answer, as many will attest, is break statistical variance and randomness because green dice are filled with spite and bitterness, and turn up 5 blank results. Way more often than they should. That happens once per game, and one decent red roll kills Fel flat out.

I figured out your problem. You are assuming that your opponent's green dice will fail as often as your green dice do. However, your opponent will always be much, much better than you are at rolling green dice.

Sadly for my opponent's Interceptors, this hasn't been my experience...

I just felt bad.

You're all complaining about too many green dice..........

Have any of you ever rolled green dice before? Do you know what they do sometimes?

The answer, as many will attest, is break statistical variance and randomness because green dice are filled with spite and bitterness, and turn up 5 blank results. Way more often than they should. That happens once per game, and one decent red roll kills Fel flat out.

I figured out your problem. You are assuming that your opponent's green dice will fail as often as your green dice do. However, your opponent will always be much, much better than you are at rolling green dice.

Using the Force in a game of Star Wars: X-Wing should not be allowed.

FFG NEEDS to add this to the FAQ.

I like the concept of autothrusters, but I kind of wish it only impacted out of arc gunfire like turrets.

Then it would be useless if a turret didn't show, which is bad game design.

Right, because there aren't any other completely situational upgrade cards in this game. It's a 2 point card, and I bet dollars to pesos you'd still pay 2 points for turret insurance on someone like Soontir.

My point, which went over your head, is that autothrusters reward or at the very least mitigate bad flying. That is the exact problem that most people had with turrets.

It is a constructive criticism, and not even a harsh one at that.

In the perpetual war between red dice and green dice, red dice always win. In the long game, in the long run, law of averages invoked, red dice always win. Average rolls only delay a green loss. A lucky roll with green dice just means nothing happens; extra evades don't carry over to next turn, don't reduce the amount of red dice rolled in the future, don't pile up to mean anything. They just work, and then they go away.

A lucky roll with red dice? A Stealth Device pops and the number of green dice go down for the rest of the game. Damage gets through -- which is the whole point -- and a ship comes closer to dying. A Crit sneaks in there, and suddenly you lose the number of green dice you can roll (again), or you lose maneuverability so even more reds and greens get rolled, or you take extra damage and your ship never rolls green dice again.

Red dice always win, because red dice do things. Fluke green dice rolls only delay the inevitable. Fluke red dice rolls win the game.

The best defense isn't Evade actions, or green dice, or C3P0 shenanigans, or Stealth Devices, or even sexy new Aautothrusters. The best defense is minimizing how often the other guy gets to roll red dice, and you have to desperately parry with green...and Autothrusters do nothing to help that, so their two-point investment clearly isn't the problem they're made out to be.

My point, which went over your head, is that autothrusters reward or at the very least mitigate bad flying. That is the exact problem that most people had with turrets.

Not at all. They provide a region (Range 3 and Out of Arc) in which the ship is harder to hit. A player that positions his ship for a Range 3 shot isn't a bad pilot. Nor, for that matter, is someone flying a turret. You fly a turret badly, you die. They've got to minimise the hits they take or they'll die by being outgunned and outhulled by ships that aren't paying a premium for turrets.

Right, because there aren't any other completely situational upgrade cards in this game.

Name one. Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

Right, because there aren't any other completely situational upgrade cards in this game.

Name one.

Ordnance, isn't that only used in Epic? Sorry I couldn't resist.

Don't mind me, I'll be moving on now.

P.S. In case you don't get the joke I'm the (only one I think) Imperial player that thinks ordnance is okay just as it is.

Name one. Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

You're kidding, right?

You're all complaining about too many green dice..........

Have any of you ever rolled green dice before? Do you know what they do sometimes?

The answer, as many will attest, is break statistical variance and randomness because green dice are filled with spite and bitterness, and turn up 5 blank results. Way more often than they should. That happens once per game, and one decent red roll kills Fel flat out.

hey, I'm not complaining about green dice (in this thread...

I've graduated to compiling lists of upgrades that ignore them completely

Name one. Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

What, you mean thrusters?

They work against everyone at range 3. You get even one guaranteed evade off of that triggering and you've as good as saved half the cost of a shield upgrade. It's a really nifty little modification that works really well on these fast moving, 5king bastards or the vast amount of distance the large base aggressor covers (does not work as well on the slower Viper, but I'd still take it over just stealth)

Also, if you run into blount (Whom I wouldn't expect) you can kiss your stealth device good bye, so there's that

Name one. Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

Veteran Instincts. It means nothing if your opponent doesn't care about the PS bid.

Outmaneuver is also useless against double Decimator builds unless your opponent fields Kenkirk or Countermeasures.

I like the concept of autothrusters, but I kind of wish it only impacted out of arc gunfire like turrets.

Then it would be useless if a turret didn't show, which is bad game design.

Right, because there aren't any other completely situational upgrade cards in this game. It's a 2 point card, and I bet dollars to pesos you'd still pay 2 points for turret insurance on someone like Soontir.

My point, which went over your head, is that autothrusters reward or at the very least mitigate bad flying. That is the exact problem that most people had with turrets.

It is a constructive criticism, and not even a harsh one at that.

Autothrusters actually reward good flying. It's pretty widely accepted that Interceptors fight best at range 3. If you're the defender, you want to be rolling at least 1 more green dice than the opponent is rolling red dice, and if you are the attacker you want to be rolling the same or more red dice then the defender has green dice. At range 3, Interceptor's usually roll more green dice than the opponent's red dice, while their red dice match or exceed the majority of 3-attack ship's green dice.

It also rewards good flying for arc-dodging, even if it's a turret ship that your arc-dodging.

There are plenty of ways that aren't turrets to counter arc-dodgers in each faction, Darth Vader, Rebel Captive, Feedback Array, Veteran Instincts, edge-flying, SMART PLAY. Hopefully Autothrusters will help move this game away from the focus on turrets at high level play and have people exploring other aspects of the game.

Name one. Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

Veteran Instincts. It means nothing if your opponent doesn't care about the PS bid.

Outmaneuver is also useless against double Decimator builds unless your opponent fields Kenkirk or Countermeasures.

Stay on Target vs all higher PS lists, or same PS where you have initiative.

Do combos count? HLC + Gunner vs Decimators and all 1Agility ships. Even without HLC, Gunner is gennerally a waste in those matchups.

I like this game much more.

BTW, I'm not arguing why AT+SD is good for the game anymore (see HAL 9000). I think Autothruster a solid addition, and long needec. Also, SD kinda sucks anyway.

I don't think auto thrusters rewards good flying. It's just insurance. The opening round of combat is most likely taking place at range 3 so you're getting free evades to help stay alive longer. Other than that it's insurance against turrets because turrets are the natural counter to arc dodgers so it helps them stay alive a little bit longer.

In the perpetual war between red dice and green dice, red dice always win. In the long game, in the long run, law of averages invoked, red dice always win. Average rolls only delay a green loss. A lucky roll with green dice just means nothing happens; extra evades don't carry over to next turn, don't reduce the amount of red dice rolled in the future, don't pile up to mean anything. They just work, and then they go away.

A lucky roll with red dice? A Stealth Device pops and the number of green dice go down for the rest of the game. Damage gets through -- which is the whole point -- and a ship comes closer to dying. A Crit sneaks in there, and suddenly you lose the number of green dice you can roll (again), or you lose maneuverability so even more reds and greens get rolled, or you take extra damage and your ship never rolls green dice again.

Red dice always win, because red dice do things. Fluke green dice rolls only delay the inevitable. Fluke red dice rolls win the game.

The best defense isn't Evade actions, or green dice, or C3P0 shenanigans, or Stealth Devices, or even sexy new Aautothrusters. The best defense is minimizing how often the other guy gets to roll red dice, and you have to desperately parry with green...and Autothrusters do nothing to help that, so their two-point investment clearly isn't the problem they're made out to be.

Well said dude...well said.

In the perpetual war between red dice and green dice, red dice always win. In the long game, in the long run, law of averages invoked, red dice always win. Average rolls only delay a green loss. A lucky roll with green dice just means nothing happens; extra evades don't carry over to next turn, don't reduce the amount of red dice rolled in the future, don't pile up to mean anything. They just work, and then they go away.

A lucky roll with red dice? A Stealth Device pops and the number of green dice go down for the rest of the game. Damage gets through -- which is the whole point -- and a ship comes closer to dying. A Crit sneaks in there, and suddenly you lose the number of green dice you can roll (again), or you lose maneuverability so even more reds and greens get rolled, or you take extra damage and your ship never rolls green dice again.

Red dice always win, because red dice do things. Fluke green dice rolls only delay the inevitable. Fluke red dice rolls win the game.

The best defense isn't Evade actions, or green dice, or C3P0 shenanigans, or Stealth Devices, or even sexy new Aautothrusters. The best defense is minimizing how often the other guy gets to roll red dice, and you have to desperately parry with green...and Autothrusters do nothing to help that, so their two-point investment clearly isn't the problem they're made out to be.

Well said dude...well said.

Auto thrusters isn't about the green dice so much. I definitely agree that if you're rolling green dice then you're on trouble. Auto thrusters is damage mitigation, it's along the same lines as c3po, shield regen, evade tokens. Stuff that reliably and guarantees evades.

Damage mitigation is incredibly powerful especially in timed tournament matches. If it's down to your 2 attack dice ship against chewie with falcon title, c3p0, and r2d2 you can't do any more damage to him. He reliably mitigates 3 damage a turn and the max that a wing could do is 3 damage at range 1.

Boost ships now have incredible damage mitigation against rebel and scum turrets. Fel with a focus and evade has already negated 1 attack, so the falcon is now a 2 dice attacking ship. Fel is also put of arc so he will get an auto thruster evade so now the falcon is effectively a 1 attack dice ship and you haven't even rolled dice yet. If the 3rd dice is a hit now you have 3-6 green dice to roll 1 symbol.

So again damage mitigation is very powerful.

Name one upgrade that can be null and void if your opponent doesn't take the ships you expect.

Edit: Lt. Blount.