I've been thinking up Scum squads all day and, try as I might, I can't see much of a role for the Scyk.

For me the problem is it just doesn't do anything particularly well and it seems to be overcosted by a point or two. A comparison with the cheapest TIE Interceptor seems to prove the point. Which would you rather have?

5 x Alpha Squadron TIE Interceptors

or

5 x Heavy Scyks with Mangler Cannons / 4 x Heavy Scyks with Mangler Cannons & Serissu

The 5 Heavies may have the edge with regard to damage output but they are less durable than the Squints and are not as good at arc dodging. The Serissu variant improves defence but reduces damage output, plus I'm not sure how valuable rerolling one green die actually is. I also don't like Serissu's chances of lasting more than a round or two of firing as her (?) ability doesn't affect her own defence dice. At least Biggs has five health to chew through; she has three and there aren't many Scum generics that can carry Draw their Fire to help her out.

I can't imagine running Scyk's with torpedoes or missiles due to the known problems with ordnance. HLC is too expensive and I don't see ion cannons and flechette cannons as being particularly effective, so really the Mangler Scyk is pretty much it. The other named Scyk has an ability that is so situational that I can't see it getting much play at all.

Am I missing something or are they really useless?

Heavy scyks and cannons look great. I prefer the ps5 version for ptl and focus/evade and stealth device. Maybe not take a whole list of them though.

I wouldn't say the HLC is to expensive on a scyk, it is a great thing to have.

They don't have to be better than other things to not be "useless." They just need to be, well, usefull. Comparable. Worthwhile.

Firstly, you can't run 5 Alpha Squadron TIE Interceptors in Scum, right? So right off the bat it's an apples and oranges comparison. You should be comparing them against a roughly equal points amount of Z-95s featuring Scum pilots and options, not against another faction. Second, you even point out that four Manglers is going to do some damage (an upside) but will be less dodgy (a downside), which by definition makes them a pretty equitable balance, all things considered. And as far as how valuable Serissu's reroll will be? She's the anti-Howlrunner. Same ability, different side of the dice, right? In fact, in a swarm of Scyks (which have more dice on defense than TIEs do on offense), the ability might even be more useful; she's keeping a swarm alive, while their cannon upgrades are doing damage.

I'm right there with you worrying about Serissu's own safety, and not feeling like the ordnance options are (currently) worth it. But I think you're overlooking the utility of the (also cheaper!) ion and flechette cannons, while downplaying the pretty reliable damage that four or five Manglers can put out, when they have three (or three and a reroll) defense dice to hide behind.

the 20 point mangler scyk is, imo, a far sight more useful than the generic ps 2 X-wing

The 14 point Scyk is basically scum's A-wing, a much more flexible Z-95 in terms of dial and action and therefore a much more annoying pain in the ass to get around. Sadly, unlike the A-wing, it isn't straight up more durable than the Z and the Zs can be outfitted for bug zappers (making them the most awesome thing in the game so far)

Now the non-Seirussu pilot is actually a huge tilt in psychological warfare on par with R7 Tarn. Your opponent will just hate life trying to concentrate fire on the guy knowing that there's a chance he'll just spawn free evades out of it. I did wish he'd come with an EPT, though, because lone wolf would be ridiculous on him.

I think a better comparaison would actually be with the A-Wing.

The Scyk doesn't have to equip a cannon or an ordnance to be useful, it is just an option they have. They are still a 3 health ship so overloading them might not be the wisest choice, at least not if you intend to use many in the same list.

One Scyk with a Cannon of your choice can be a very good flanker.

I could see a swarm of them fonction like a Tie Fighter swarm:

Serissu + PtL (23pts)

Tansarii + Wingman (19pts)

Cartel Pilot x4 (56pts)

Also, Serissu with 3 Z might be a pretty decent mini swarm to go with your favorite Elite ship, shoot the 3 agility dice that buff everyone or the Z-95 with more health and a reroll?

Serissu (20 pts)

Binayre Pirates x3 (36pts)

The Tansarii Point pilot cost the same as a Green Squadron Pilot. Instead of going with 5 Cartel with a Cannon, maybe 5 Tansarii with a EPT of choice might also be good.

So, I don't think the ship is useless, it currently serve a purpose no other ship in the faction can provide.

How is the Scyk less durable than a TIE Interceptor? They both have 3HP behind 3 green dice. If anything, the Scyk is tougher, because its shield might potentially prevent a crit that would get through to a squint in the same situation.

They clearly fill the role of the competent 20-25 pt ship that can round out a list. I am not sold yet on swarming them and Zs seem the better option for that role.

How is the Scyk less durable than a TIE Interceptor? They both have 3HP behind 3 green dice. If anything, the Scyk is tougher, because its shield might potentially prevent a crit that would get through to a squint in the same situation.

Auto thrusters plus boost for more arc dodging options.

How is the Scyk less durable than a TIE Interceptor? They both have 3HP being 3 green dice. If anything, the Scyk is tougher, because its shield might potentially prevent a crit that would get through to a squint in the same situation.

only thing I can think of are auto-thrusters or the royal guard title to load a ship with two mods (though that doesn't tackle the expenses involved)

either way, though they are out of faction options, I think they compare favorably. The Scyk isn't an "interceptor" in the way that A-wings and Ties are (super fast, incredibly maneuverable etc.) but they can either make it up with formidable firepower or being scum's proto-type pilot.

Tansari + Heavy Scyk + Mangler clocks in at 23 points, 26 if you want to chuck in a 3 point EPT which clocks in very close to RGP with PTL & thrusters and the same as a Saber

It's not a completely relevant comparison, but it is interesting to see where the points fit in. Remember that S&V is a completely different faction with completely different assets, so don't go expecting the star viper to be a phantom or the Scyk to be a tie interceptor etc.

Scyks also have the most adorably mini miniature in the game

You could use one Scyk with an ion cannon as a flanker.

What will your opponent do? Turn towards the flanker, which means that the rest of your force can fire at his ships? Or ignore a flanker, since it has a damage cap of one, but a nice control option?

They clearly fill the role of the competent 20-25 pt ship that can round out a list. I am not sold yet on swarming them and Zs seem the better option for that role.

Whenever I have those points, I find it hard to look past N'dru with Lone Wolf and Cluster missiles.

It's the cheapest cannon ship yet at 23 points it can sit at range three behind pretty good defence and will probably get overlooked.

It's even cheaper as a control ship able to stress large ships with a flechette cannon or pile on ion tokens.

It's not much cop without cannon but with one it can be deadly used right.

I suppose it does have the advantage over the Squint firing at range 3.

As a control ship, what do you think is better: an ion cannon Scyk or ion turret Y-Wing?

I suppose it does have the advantage over the Squint firing at range 3.

As a control ship, what do you think is better: an ion cannon Scyk or ion turret Y-Wing?

[* Thanks to Red Castle for catching my mistakes here.]

I suppose it does have the advantage over the Squint firing at range 3.

As a control ship, what do you think is better: an ion cannon Scyk or ion turret Y-Wing?

Apples to oranges, again. It's 21 points for the Scyk versus 23 for the Y-wing. If you're facing any old ship, the turret and the extra durability are worth buying for 2 points. If you're fighting a ship with Autothrusters, the turret doesn't really help but a better dial and barrel roll will.

No, it's more of an apples to different types of apples comparison. At least both those options are available to be compared with each other as both could be used by that faction. And as you just pointed out they offer different advantages in different situations. Just like how I won't eat honeycrisp apples by themselves, but also wouldn't bake an apple pie without them.

I think the Syck does seem like the least worthwhile ship currently. However, keep in mind that the rumors are that ordnance fixes are coming soon - and the heavy syck could very well end up going with missiles/torps next year instead of cannons.

As it stands right now it is a cheap option for an HLC, and has a good PS5 Elite Pilot generic, which is kinda cool. It is missing SOMETHING - and while I don't know exactly what... I suspect that the right ordnance fix could make it shine.

I suppose it does have the advantage over the Squint firing at range 3.

As a control ship, what do you think is better: an ion cannon Scyk or ion turret Y-Wing?

Apples to oranges, again. It's 21 points for the Scyk versus 23 for the Y-wing. If you're facing any old ship, the turret and the extra durability are worth buying for 2 points. If you're fighting a ship with Autothrusters, the turret doesn't really help but a better dial and barrel roll will.

That's actually a 19 points ship (Cartel (14pts)+Title (2pts) + Ion Cannon (3pts)) versus 23pts for the Y-Wing.

Now put 5 of those ship versus 5 Alpha pilot and I would be interested to see who would win.

Just like how I won't eat honeycrisp apples by themselves, but also wouldn't bake an apple pie without them.

No. Honeycrisp apples are definitely for eating; Granny Smith apples are for pie-making.

Whether a Cartel Spacer + Ion Cannon is better than a Syndicate Thug + Ion Cannon Turret is a merely a matter of context and personal preference. But honeycrisp apples are a delectable and satisfying snack, alone (although they go great with a sharp cheddar!) and with no further processing, and that's an irrevocable and undeniable fact.

They clearly fill the role of the competent 20-25 pt ship that can round out a list. I am not sold yet on swarming them and Zs seem the better option for that role.

Whenever I have those points, I find it hard to look past N'dru with Lone Wolf and Cluster missiles.

I don't find it so difficult

Put N'dru within range 1-2 of a friendly ship and you've just paid 23 points for a pirate

Not to discount N'dru's bossdom, but he's not going to work in certain lists (the more ships, the less chance of him working) while the Scyk has no such reservations

Granny Smith apples fall flat in my view as lone baking apple. They are to tart even when carmalized which requires to much added sugar which takes away from the Apple flavor. A combination of Honeycrisp and Granny Smith provides a perfect balance of sweet and tart.

Can we at least agree Red Delicious apples are pointless if faced with pretty much any other apple alternative?

The Scyck is the cheapest cannon carrier in the game. It also only has two attack dice, so equipping Ion cannon to it (a very cheap cannon) actually increases its chances of hitting stuff. The two base dice probably are only going to output 1 damage anyway so the Ion cannon is a wash in terms of firepower.

Hence you have a ship that allows you to cheaply field an Ion cannon while actually improving the ship's over all damage output (but capping damage potential)

Granny Smith apples fall flat in my view as lone baking apple. They are to tart even when carmalized which requires to much added sugar which takes away from the Apple flavor. A combination of Honeycrisp and Granny Smith provides a perfect balance of sweet and tart.

I don't understand: what does "too tart" even mean?

Can we at least agree Red Delicious apples are pointless if faced with pretty much any other apple alternative?

Common ground, at last!

The Syck might just be nice in a pair with Prockets. Add an IG-88 or Firespay and a Z with feedback array and you have a troublesome list for your opponent to deal with....

Im going to be playing with 6 Syks bare, and will also check out how they work with gear maybe 3-4 at a time.

Target lock is nice. For 2 points its not a bad buy for a swarm of 6.

You guys seem to either take a swarm of Scyks or load them with cannons. To me, the S&V have two cheap ships. One is the Z-95 and the other the generic Scyk. I tend to look at the Scyk as a Tie Fighter that has TL and a shield instead of a hull point for 2 pts. To me, I would use the TL on occasion. All the time? No. Sometimes, yes. There are lists that that sometimes use cheap Tie Fighters without going with a swarm, why would it be hard to think of using some Scyks that way? Personally, there are times when I'd rather have the arc dodging Scyks than the Z-95.

Laetin w/ Hvy Scyk, Mangler Cannon, and Stealth Device

Kavil w/ Blaster Turret, Determination, and Agromech

3 x Cartel Spacers

Kavil and the Cartels move in to get into a dogfight. Laetin sits on the flanks and shoots in. Sometimes zipping through the scrum while taking shots...if it's safe. Cartels usually Focus or Barrel Roll. Kavil blasts the hell out of things. Cartels keep things off his back, bump, or distract.

I've also thought about dropping one Cartel and Determination for a Z-95 with Ion Missile.

Just think of them as Tie Fighters. Just take a few in your list. I know that a lot of people don't have a love for the Tie Fighter if it's not in a swarm or a cool upgrade guy, but there are those of us that prefer Tie Fighters over Z-95's. S&V get to pick between either. You just don't get an Academy Pilot for 12, but that's OK.