1 Q: Davos (Core) says: Response: Save Ser Davos Seaworth from being killed, then pay 1 gold or return him to his owner's hand.

So in my understanding this version of Davos can save himself from being burned, since the return to hand is part of the save response. Right?

2 Q: House Tyrell Guard says: Response: After one of your BARATHEON characters is killed, put House Tyrell Guard into play from your hand.

So in this case if I save Davos from being killed i think i cannot put this guy in play since i understand the save as some interrupt in the killing process, but I rather ask, because I dont want to explain it badly to other players.

Rozy said:

I'm not a rules expert but I play this 2 cards in this way:

1. Davos can save himself from Burn by coming back to it's owner's hand. The terminal state created by the Burn is ended when Davos leaves the board.

2. Saving a character prevents him from being killed (Save = step 2 in the framework, effects applied = step 3). So you cannot use House Tyrell Guard's ability when one of your character is saved from death. Anyway, I don't really think this card is a useful one, am i right (i don't play Barat but keeping a card in hand and waiting for a special ooportunity to play it can be difficult, if it's the Bastard's Titan okay, but this card has low stats) ?

fabest said:

I am not really playing him, but when I am showing the game to new players we play the CoreSet only so there is this guy.

Rozy said:

Ok But he may be good in some decks, I don't play Baratheon

It´s possible to save Davos (CS) from burn, the question was asked before concering Viserys Targaryen.

http://www.tzumainn.com/agot/cards/card.php?card_id=3087

and yes, once a charachter is saved he´s not considered to be killed/ discarded etc.,

Rozy said:

"burned"? What card do you mean?

burn is a temr that refers to any card effect (like that found on Flame-kissed) that lowers a characters strength and kills them if their str then equals 0.

Rogue30 said:

The phrase "burn" is used as a collective term for cards that read "...attached character gets -X STR and is killed if its STR is 0." X is usually defined on the cards. People are talking about "Burn" cards because it fit´s thematicly so nice to Daenys dragons. So e.g. a combination of flame-kissed and forever burning (both Core set) could "burn " / kill a 3 strength charachter. The term is so popular because "burn" is in some ways different from the usual kill effect (which can most likely be found in house Stark e.g. Guilty! Core Set).

1. Burn cards can stack to create a kill effect.

2. It´s harder to save a charachter from burn. That´s because burn cards create a terminal effect which the usual save won´t remove. In fact there´s no card in the LCG format which could save another charahcter from a burn (kill) effect, only Viserys and Davos can survive a burn effect due to their special ability. And the latest Arya release returns to the shadows, so she´s somehow indirect saved.

But how can Davos survive?

"a Moribund card is considered to have left play but is physically still in play and retains its abilities (including attachments and their abilities)"

So, he uses his ability (succesful save) and then dies again because attachment still works. Then he can't use his response second time and dies.

What am I missing here?

If Davos is saved from being killed you can do one of the following:

a) Pay 1 gold and see how he dies again

b) Return him to hand -> Remember that Moribund cards cannot leave play nor be chosen to leave play a second time. His first and only destination is your hand.

Rogue30 said:

As eloooooooi refers to, what you are missing is the " Rules Exception " on p. 15 of the FAQ:

"Although considered in play, a Moribund card
cannot be removed from play (or targeted to
be removed from play) again by any effect or
any attempt to pay a cost for the remainder of
the action window."

So, when Davos saves himself and is returned to hand, he becomes moribund by his own ability. The trick, of course, is that he is "moribund:return to hand" instead of "moribund:dead pile." He has been saved and returned to your hand instead of killed. And now that he is moribund, the "kill at 0" from the attachment is no longer able to kill him (and make him moribund a second time) because the rules exception prevents him from being removed from play a second time.

It really depends on how you define "survived." He doesn't "survive" in the immediate sense in that he is, in fact, taken off the table and returned to your hand. However, the longer, strategic point of view is that he does "survive" in a sense because he doesn't go to your dead pile and you have the option to play him from your hand again.

Ok, now it's clear. Thanks.