Hi all,

With the release of Scum and Villainy, Rebel players now have access to the Flechette and Mangler Cannons, both of which fill the hole in the donought that the HLC leaves.

Question is though, which (if any) of the two are the best option for running on a YT-2400 which has the Outrider Title?

Personally I'm leaning towards the Flechette Cannon due its stress causing ability, but would be interested to hear other opinions.

Cheers

Baaa

I wouldn't bother with either for an optimized list.

The Flechette will be a neat trick, but it is a cannon meant for utility and control while the Outrider title favorably supports offensive cannons, such as the Mangler or HLC, but even the Mangler has a hard time competing with the amount of dice saturation the HLC puts out. The extra red die is extremely powerful, even at the cost of a range one donut hole. While the Mangler closes the donut hole, the whole point of the 2400 is to be able to dodge things, staying at range 2-3, so you don't want your opponents ganging up on you at range 1 anyway.

Of the two, Mangler is easily the better choice. Even the minimal Wild Space Fringer + Flechette Cannon + Outrider costs in the high 30s, which is too much to pay for a ship that's limited to 1 damage per round.

Like Mister Siegel above me, though, I'm of the mind that a Heavy Laser Cannon is the default equipment for Dash and friends, and you shouldn't downgrade unless that three-point bonus for downgrading to the Mangler is absolutely critical elsewhere in your list or unless you're certain to fight Whisper or Soontir moving after you.

Stress cannon on a b-wing is a good option but it's a bad idea on the outrider it simply won't do enough damage to justify its cost.

On a YT-2400 with the Outrider Title, you don't want an option that restricts your damage.

Therefore, the Flechette and Ion cannons are not a good combo.

That leaves us with the Mangler, Autoblaster, and Heavy Laser.

The Mangler is your cheapest option, and still provides a damage increase from the norm. It is actively a good choice for the Outrider. Running this basically gives you a Falcon with the defensive stats, barrel-roll, and pilot abilities of the Outrider.

The Autoblaster is practically unworkable, though if you have a lot of Phantoms in your local metagame it could be worth trying out. Still, expect to use your action to Barrel-Roll into position almost every turn, and build accordingly.

The Heavy Laser is tried and true. It sacrifices the Range 1 option of the Mangler for an extra attack die across the board.

Notably, it also costs 3 points more than the Mangler.

That extra attack die is potent, but you will also barrel-roll more often to avoid the "Doughnut Hole" issue.

Of course, I'm an odd duck, in that I run the HLC YT-2400 without the Outrider title at all.

It solves the Doughnut Hole, is cheaper than the Outridden Mangler, and is still maneuverable enough that I can usually take the HLC shot.

Use the doughnut hole only with high PS. Proton rockets can fill a part of that hole.

Mangler for low PS.

A YT-2400 without title is fine.

Of course, I'm an odd duck, in that I run the HLC YT-2400 without the Outrider title at all.

It solves the Doughnut Hole, is cheaper than the Outridden Mangler, and is still maneuverable enough that I can usually take the HLC shot.

The no-Outrider configuration also makes a lot more sense in a world that includes Autothrusters.

Thanks for the replies, they're much appreciated.

I like the HLC and have run it in the past; that extra shot can indeed make the difference. I only picked up an M3-A yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to try either the Mangler or Flechette Cannons.

At the moment I'm looking at running the following -

YT-2400

Leebo. Predator, Mangler Cannon, Homing Missiles, Dash Rendar, Outrider and Munitions Failsafe.

It's a bit of a sinkhole at 54 pts, but I think it might be a half decent build.

Cheers

Baaa

Thanks for the replies, they're much appreciated.

I like the HLC and have run it in the past; that extra shot can indeed make the difference. I only picked up an M3-A yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to try either the Mangler or Flechette Cannons.

At the moment I'm looking at running the following -

YT-2400

Leebo. Predator, Mangler Cannon, Homing Missiles, Dash Rendar, Outrider and Munitions Failsafe.

It's a bit of a sinkhole at 54 pts, but I think it might be a half decent build.

Cheers

Baaa

If you're running Leebo, you REALLY want Determination.

The combo is that, when you're dealt a face-up card, instead deal two to yourself. If either of them is a Pilot crit, discard them both, and take no damage from that crit.

It's bleeding INSANE

If you're running Leebo, you REALLY want Determination.

The combo is that, when you're dealt a face-up card, instead deal two to yourself. If either of them is a Pilot crit, discard them both, and take no damage from that crit.

It's bleeding INSANE

Thanks,

I actually started off with Determination in the list and swapped it out for Predator.

I'll probably go back to using it, as the two points it saves will allow me to upgrade to an HLC (the list is sitting at 99 pts).

Cheers

Baaa

In general, I like the Mangler Cannon more than the HLC, even without using Outrider. You lose one Red die, but you gain a crit per shot and it opens up far more moves as you no longer need to be out at R2-3 to shoot. I favor shooting every turn over turns where I can't shoot. Also, against high targets that rely heavily on Hull points, the Manglers crit ability shines. Just my 2 cents.

I think if you go 58 super dash then he can avoid getting donutted with his bucketload of actions, however I think most of the other builds would prefer to use their more limited actions on offense/defense and that donut becomes too much of a liability, so I think I would likely use the mangler with them (besides vrill who would be freeballing with some stress buddies ).

I think it's fair to say that, under optimal conditions, the traditional HLC + Outrider combo is still the best at potential damage output, but that the Mangler + Outrider is the more reliable/forgiving combination. Build accordingly.