Tried out your list today against a Decimator/Phantom list. Was very effective..
List I used..
TIE Defender (99pts) +
PS 6 - •Colonel Vessery (50pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Ion Pulse Missiles (3pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
PS 8 - •Rexler Brath (49pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
How does the Decoy work with this build? Is there something cunning I'm missing?
vs
How does the Decoy work with this build? Is there something cunning I'm missing?
vs
I haven't flown this exact list, but based on Biophysical's report, he was using Decoy to allow Vessery to fire at PS10 after Rex had taken a target lock. So then Vess' ability kicks in (because Rex' TL is there) and Rex can fire at PS6 and still spend the TL if he needs to. I think it was more of an advantage when Whisper was prevalent, because Vess' HLC with both TL + Focus had a decent chance of one-shotting the phantom (on a bad defense roll). Now that Whisper is less popular, I don't think its as important to go this route, and possibly other EPTs might be better in the new meta.
blade_mercurial is 100% correct. I'll add that Decoy has other nice advantages that I didn't really forsee when I first designed the list. Against PS7-9, you can use it to get a shot off with Vessery if there's a possibility of him getting killed before he shoots. Also, it was nice to fire later, sometimes, to know if I'd need my Focus for defense.
I have subsequently changed to Predator on Rexler Brath, along with a few other changes, and have overall enjoyed the substantial raw firepower increase.
I'm still not certain I want to take double defenders to a store tourney, but this is what I'm leaning towards:
Vessery w/ LW, HLC and Stealth
Brath w/ Pred, HLC and hull upgrade
3 points left over. Either IPM on Brath or Prockets on Vess. Would want to try both and see what I prefer...
My last small local tournament (3 rounds) I took that exact build with Prockets on Brath. I fired them maybe once, I think, and they didn't do much. That's not to say they couldn't be useful, though. There's times when an extra damage can be pretty important. I'm thinking of subbing them in for IPM on Vessery, as he gets a free TL from time to time. That way if I'm shooting at an important ship, they can use tokens to avoid crits piled on by Rex or they can use tokens to try and avoid the Ion induced drift. I think I'm inclined to go with IPM, but I don't know for sure. They're both pretty situational, and I can't decide if I should just bump the Hull Upgrade to a Shield and use 2 points for initiative.
That being said, I am 100% sold on that Vessery build, and Brath with Predator is always awesome.
I did end up going 200-0 in all three of my games in that tournament, but I didn't take very good notes so it didn't end up as a report.
Tried out your list today against a Decimator/Phantom list. Was very effective..
List I used..
TIE Defender (99pts) +
PS 6 - •Colonel Vessery (50pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Ion Pulse Missiles (3pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
PS 8 - •Rexler Brath (49pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
I'm curious, why did you decide to swap out Decoy for VI on Vessery? I've found the flexibility of Decoy to be surprisingly useful.
Tried out your list today against a Decimator/Phantom list. Was very effective..
List I used..
TIE Defender (99pts) +
PS 6 - •Colonel Vessery (50pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Ion Pulse Missiles (3pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
PS 8 - •Rexler Brath (49pts) [Heavy Laser Cannon (7pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts), Veteran Instincts (1pts)]
I'm curious, why did you decide to swap out Decoy for VI on Vessery? I've found the flexibility of Decoy to be surprisingly useful.
Didn't realise I changed it to VI.. I used Decoy. Sorry for the typo.. I fired with Vessery first to clear shields and tokens then fired with Rexler who had focus. Keep doing damage with a Rexler and used the focus to flip them,
I enjoyed reading about your squad as it was similar to one I ran in a causal match:
I don't think there's any reason to think that wouldn't be just as good a list as the one I discussed above. I've dabbled with changing out Vessery for something else so as not to rely on target-lock sharing. ATC Vader strikes me as an excellent choice for a build with two souped up heavy fighters. Soontir-Brath has been pretty awesome in the couple of games I've tried it. Both potentially leave room for a TIE fighter as well.
Once the Raider is shipped, I will group Vessery with two TIE Advanced (one of which will be Vader). Until then, the only other option I like is a pair of Lambda Shuttles. However, neither really fit the topic of the thread so I will not include them here.
Once the Raider is shipped, I will group Vessery with two TIE Advanced (one of which will be Vader). Until then, the only other option I like is a pair of Lambda Shuttles. However, neither really fit the topic of the thread so I will not include them here.
I don't think that really matters. The inclusion of any Defenders at all is notable enough to lump it in with a double defender discussion.
Colonel Vessery (35)Adrenaline Rush (1)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)Proton Rockets (3)Shield Upgrade (4)"Whisper" (32)Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Weapons Engineer (3)Advanced Cloaking Device (4)Total: 92
I like the idea of this list, but think it might be going a bit overboard trying to fit the theme of "Make Vessery's Ability Work". You could reasonable drop the Weapons Engineer and the PRockets, combined with the 8 points you already have left over, and add a single TIE fighter to be an extra body. Dropping just the shield from Vessery (while keeping the Engineer and PRockets) gets you an Academy Pilot
I enjoyed reading about your squad as it was similar to one I ran in a causal match:
Colonel Vessery (35)Veteran Instincts (1)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)Shield Upgrade (4)Rexler Brath (37)Push the Limit (3)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)Shield Upgrade (4)Total: 98Push the Limit was included in an effort to use both pilot abilities. In that match, it worked out; I did not lose either Defender. However, if I was facing better players, it would likely be shutdown. With the higher PS, yours more easily deals with Phantoms.I wish there were more Defender Pilots as Rexler does not quit synergize with Vessery. Rexler wants to Focus, but Vessery needs him to Target lock. As such, I have considered replacing Rexler with Whisper for an experimental two ship Imperial list (I doubt it would be as successful as your build, but I hope it is fun to play):Colonel Vessery (35)Adrenaline Rush (1)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)Proton Rockets (3)Shield Upgrade (4)"Whisper" (32)Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Weapons Engineer (3)Advanced Cloaking Device (4)Total: 92
I've played Brath + Whisper for a fair bit on Vassal. I tried dropping Brath for Vessery to get a bit more reliable dice in the opening exchange, but the dice still 'failed' me in one game.
I'm 7-4 with this list so far:
Brath w/ HLC, lone wolf, shield upgrade & proton rockets (or Vessery with same)
Whisper w/ V.I., FCS, gunner & ACD
97 (or 95 w/ Vess)
There is no reason to 'gimp' whisper to make Vessery work. You need that gunner because a bad first round of shooting and you will be struggling to get a win (with a list that is already in an uphill battle against large numbers). And FCS alone is perfectly adequate to get Vess' ability to trigger (and if Vess is alone, Lone Wolf is a good back up).
The biggest problem with the list is the differences in how the two ships fly. While its relatively easy to flank with the phantom and allow Lone Wolf to trigger almost every round, you will ultimately run into the problem of not being able to focus fire if your ships get too spread a part. And this will inevitably happen because the phantom is good at getting shots for 3-4 consecutive rounds before it needs to go into 'awkward turn-around mode' (awkward because you don't really want to k-turn because the stress messes ACD) whereas the Defender shoots once, maybe twice before it needs to split off (assuming you can't or don't want to k-turn immediately, and you might not want to k-turn immediately because its an obvious move and you risk getting focus-fire....something neither ship likes).
I haven't tried double defenders yet to see how it compares, but my feeling is that having 2 ships with identical flight characteristics will actually be better for maintaining focus fire for the duration of the match (at least until you lose one anyway). However, Whisper equipped as above is an absolute monster, even post-FAQ, and can still 'solo' quite a few matchups even if you lose the defender early.
Edited by blade_mercurialI haven't tried double defenders yet to see how it compares, but my feeling is that having 2 ships with identical flight characteristics will actually be better for maintaining focus fire for the duration of the match (at least until you lose one anyway). However, Whisper equipped as above is an absolute monster, even post-FAQ, and can still 'solo' quite a few matchups even if you lose the defender early.
I find myself flaying them apart as often as in formation, but generally I find that to be the case. Defenders don't have much downtime when they flee or disengage, so even if one leaves for a turn, it can be right back in the fray next turn. The white K also allows for a stall where you want to stay in the same general area for a couple turns and let the wingman get where it needs to go before you make your move.
I don't think that really matters. The inclusion of any Defenders at all is notable enough to lump it in with a double defender discussion.
Then I might share more squads, if I ever get around to playing them.
I like the idea of this list, but think it might be going a bit overboard trying to fit the theme of "Make Vessery's Ability Work". You could reasonable drop the Weapons Engineer and the PRockets, combined with the 8 points you already have left over, and add a single TIE fighter to be an extra body. Dropping just the shield from Vessery (while keeping the Engineer and PRockets) gets you an Academy Pilot
Yes, I have several squads saved on my phone that were built under the theme of "Make Vessery's Ability Work". This is one of the more far fetched squads. I could reduce the upgrades (I would strip the shields) and add an Academy Pilot; however, for this squad I wanted to try an experimental two ship build. This despite being well aware that it is is not considered optimal to fly two small based ships. Part of me wants to fly it because it is not considered optimal. I do not get to play enough games, but it would be interesting to see how the squad flies without and with the Academy Pilot.
There is no reason to 'gimp' whisper to make Vessery work. You need that gunner because a bad first round of shooting and you will be struggling to get a win (with a list that is already in an uphill battle against large numbers). And FCS alone is perfectly adequate to get Vess' ability to trigger (and if Vess is alone, Lone Wolf is a good back up).
There is no reason to 'gimp' whisper to make Vessery work. You need that gunner because a bad first round of shooting and you will be struggling to get a win (with a list that is already in an uphill battle against large numbers). And FCS alone is perfectly adequate to get Vess' ability to trigger (and if Vess is alone, Lone Wolf is a good back up).
I have yet to fly a Phantom in a match, so I cannot speak from experience with Whisper. That said, I do not like the limiting factor of a single target lock. It lets your opponent know on which target you are focusing. In theory, I like the extra option that Weapons Engineer adds. However, since the Phantom lacks Target Lock, I can see your comment about Gunner. I would want to fly the squad both ways to see which I prefer in practice. As for Lone Wolf, I will likely replace Adrenaline Rush with it, as it makes sense if Whisper is destroyed first. Adrenaline Rush can only be used once anyway.
I don't know, it's generally good practice to concentrate fire anyway. Just because they know 4 re-rolled red dice are headed their way doesn't mean they can do anything about it.