Just a quick question from a new Descent player (really enjoying it). In the quest The Masquerade Ball, if the first two unmasked guests turn out to be real guests and they are escorted from the board, knowing that these are the only two guests on the board as the quest has been set up based on two heroes, does this encounter end at this point, or do the remaining two unmasked 'guests' (monsters) have to be unmasked as effectively these are thought to be guests until unmasked??? Please can someone advise?

The victory condition says that when all guests have left the map, the encounter ends. If that has occurred, the map is over. I do not see in the victory section that all of the guests must be unmasked, and it doesn't make sense to say that the cultists must leave the map or be defeated.

The victory condition says that when all guests have left the map, the encounter ends. If that has occurred, the map is over. I do not see in the victory section that all of the guests must be unmasked, and it doesn't make sense to say that the cultists must leave the map or be defeated.

I disagree with you on that one Zaltyre.

The quest victory condition for the heroes is :

If all monsters are defeated ( or when the last guest leaves the map for any reason ) the encounter ends.

At this point, the two unmasked guest (as stated by the OP) are clearly Flesh moulders (red tokens) but are also considered guests. Therefore, the encounter does not end until the two remaining "guests" are unmasked. I feel like this situation can bring a potential stalling issue but this is how I logically read the rules for that quest. You may want to house rule this quest to prevent a stalling situation.

( Only way I can explain the quest rule is that the heroes do not know the exact number of guests to rescue so they must check all potential guests before leaving. Players do know the number because they have red the rules but heroes do not )

Finally, when reading the quest special rules, I've came up with another question. When the rule says :

A hero who leaves the map this way may return to the Entrance on his next turn (without the guest) by performing a move action (or suffering 1 fatigue) to move 1 space.

Does that mean that if the hero chooses to perform a move action to enter the map, this move action only allows him to move 1 space or does it mean that he has to spend 1 of the movement points given by the move action to enter the map. I feel it is more likely to be the latter but when reading "(...) may return to the Entrance on his next turn by performing a move action (...) to move 1 space", it also feels like this move action only gives 1 movement point,.

Just remember, as well, that there is a FAQ for this quest/encounter which states:

The victory condition says that when all guests have left the map, the encounter ends. If that has occurred, the map is over. I do not see in the victory section that all of the guests must be unmasked, and it doesn't make sense to say that the cultists must leave the map or be defeated.

I disagree with you on that one Zaltyre.

The quest victory condition for the heroes is :

If all monsters are defeated ( or when the last guest leaves the map for any reason ) the encounter ends.

At this point, the two unmasked guest (as stated by the OP) are clearly Flesh moulders (red tokens) but are also considered guests. Therefore, the encounter does not end until the two remaining "guests" are unmasked. I feel like this situation can bring a potential stalling issue by the winning side but this is how I logically read the rules for that quest. You may want to house rule this quest to prevent a stalling situation.

( Only way I can explain the quest rule is that the heroes do not know the exact number of guests to rescue so they must check all potential guests before leaving. Players do know the number because they have red the rules but heroes do not )

Finally, when reading the quest special rules, I've came up with another question. When the rule says :

A hero who leaves the map this way may return to the Entrance on his next turn (without the guest) by performing a move action (or suffering 1 fatigue) to move 1 space.

Does that mean that if the hero chooses to perform a move action to enter the map, this move action only allows him to move 1 space or does it mean that he has to spend 1 of the movement points given by the move action to enter the map. I feel it is more likely to be the latter but when reading "(...) may return to the Entrance on his next turn by performing a move action (...) to move 1 space", it also feels like this move action only gives 1 movement point,.

We have always played that the move action provides the same amount of normal movement points, but it does cost 1 to get onto the map.

Thanks any2cards.

That's what I thought.

In the "guests" section of the special rules, it says, "Half of the objective tokens are red, representing cultists. Half of the objective tokens are blue, representing noble guests- one of whom is Lord Theodir. As an action, a hero or monster adjacent to a guest may unmask the guest and flip over the token."

I see where you're coming from, saying that all of the tokens are guests- that last sentence uses the word "guest" to refer to any objective token. However, what's a little strange is that once all of the tokens are flipped over, only the blue tokens are considered to be guests- the flesh moulders are simply flesh moulders. So, the question is, are the unflipped flesh moulders- that are known to be flesh moulders because all information is public- guests? I'd tend to think no- if the heroes did rescue the blue tokens, and then killed all the monsters without flipping the others- did they rescue 8 guests in a 4 hero game, or just 4?

In all honesty, I've only played "The Masquerade Ball" once.

Regarding the move action, I'd say it just takes the first movement point to place the figure back on the map, (since you can do the same thing by spending 1 MP from a fatigue) and can then spend the rest of the MP. They don't say that this is a different move action where a hero somehow receives less MP than his speed.

"A hero who leaves the map this way may return to the Entrance on his next turn (without the guest) by performing a move action (or suffering 1 fatigue) to move 1 space."

This discription uses "move action". A move action is explained as adding an amount of movement points to your movement pool equal to your speed stat. The discription gives the players the choice to alternatively spend one fatigue. It would have been much clearer if the simply stated" to return to the entrance of the map, a hero has to spend one movement point.

In the "guests" section of the special rules, it says, "Half of the objective tokens are red, representing cultists. Half of the objective tokens are blue, representing noble guests- one of whom is Lord Theodir. As an action, a hero or monster adjacent to a guest may unmask the guest and flip over the token."

I see where you're coming from, saying that all of the tokens are guests- that last sentence uses the word "guest" to refer to any objective token. However, what's a little strange is that once all of the tokens are flipped over, only the blue tokens are considered to be guests- the flesh moulders are simply flesh moulders. So, the question is, are the unflipped flesh moulders- that are known to be flesh moulders because all information is public- guests? I'd tend to think no- if the heroes did rescue the blue tokens, and then killed all the monsters without flipping the others- did they rescue 8 guests in a 4 hero game, or just 4?

Well both interpretation seems valid enough. The question resides in if the total number of guest is known to the heroes.

You are right in saying that all the quest information is known to the player but that doesn't mean that the heroes have come to this knowledge. I think this distinction is important to make since it changes the interpretation of the quest rules. On a realistic point of view, I would find it strange if the heroes knew the number of guest and chose to stop the rescue attempt knowing that the remaining unmasked guest were Monsters.

In my opinion, the information given to all the player is to make the game fairer as Descent is not the typical dungeon crawler that unfolds as the heroes get deeper in the map. I am coming from that world where there are more unknown and surprises in the dungeon crawl. This may be why I make this distinction between what is known to the players and what is known to the heroes.

In short, it probably comes out on how you play with your group. I personally think that the heroes do not have the knowledge of the total number of guest present so they must unmask every token before the victory condition is met.

"A hero who leaves the map this way may return to the Entrance on his next turn (without the guest) by performing a move action (or suffering 1 fatigue) to move 1 space."

This discription uses "move action". A move action is explained as adding an amount of movement points to your movement pool equal to your speed stat. The discription gives the players the choice to alternatively spend one fatigue. It would have been much clearer if the simply stated" to return to the entrance of the map, a hero has to spend one movement point.

True enough but if you remove the part about spending fatigue from the sentence, it reads as follow :

"A hero who leaves the map this way may return to the Entrance on his next turn (without the guest) by performing a move action to move 1 space."

This is what confuses me. It makes it seems like you can either spend 1 fatigue or sacrifice 1 move action only to enter the dungeon (to move 1 space). Again, on a realistic point of view, this last interpretation would make sense since the hero escorting the guest probably had to escort him further than just the entrance of the dungeon hence the whole move action to get back to the entrance or the fatigue point.

I totally agree with you that the sentence could have been clearer but it's FFG and they know we all love this kind of rule interpretation debate

I think it's actually pretty clear: there are 4 guests at the party, two of which are cultists in disguise, 2 of which are the people to be rescued. The map doesn't end until all guests are off the map, so it would continue until the 2 cultists are dealt with.

This is all based on the basic fact that the quest declares all of the objective tokens to be guests. Last few lines of setup: "No players should know which objective tokens are blue and which are red. These tokens are masked guests."

Thus, all tokens are guests, even the cultists.

I think it's actually pretty clear: there are 4 guests at the party, two of which are cultists in disguise, 2 of which are the people to be rescued. The map doesn't end until all guests are off the map, so it would continue until the 2 cultists are dealt with.

This is all based on the basic fact that the quest declares all of the objective tokens to be guests. Last few lines of setup: "No players should know which objective tokens are blue and which are red. These tokens are masked guests."

Thus, all tokens are guests, even the cultists.

Whitewing, I can accept that interpretation for sure- you're right, it does refer to all facedown tokens as guests- but it raises two very relevant questions:

1) If, as in the case described, the heroes flip only blue tokens and no red ones, then kill all monsters- how many guests have they rescued? The number of blue tokens, or the number of blue+red tokens (since if there are no more monsters, remaining guests are considered rescued?)

2) Must revealed cultists be defeated to be considered to have "left the map," or does unmasking a cultist and replacing the token count as that guest leaving (essentially, if we're considering the red tokens to be guests, does that make the flesh moulders that replace them guests, too?)

I think it's actually pretty clear: there are 4 guests at the party, two of which are cultists in disguise, 2 of which are the people to be rescued. The map doesn't end until all guests are off the map, so it would continue until the 2 cultists are dealt with.

This is all based on the basic fact that the quest declares all of the objective tokens to be guests. Last few lines of setup: "No players should know which objective tokens are blue and which are red. These tokens are masked guests."

Thus, all tokens are guests, even the cultists.

Whitewing, I can accept that interpretation for sure- you're right, it does refer to all facedown tokens as guests- but it raises two very relevant questions:

1) If, as in the case described, the heroes flip only blue tokens and no red ones, then kill all monsters- how many guests have they rescued? The number of blue tokens, or the number of blue+red tokens (since if there are no more monsters, remaining guests are considered rescued?)

2) Must revealed cultists be defeated to be considered to have "left the map," or does unmasking a cultist and replacing the token count as that guest leaving (essentially, if we're considering the red tokens to be guests, does that make the flesh moulders that replace them guests, too?)

1) They've rescued the blue tokens, since only the blue tokens can actually be rescued.

2) Unmasking a cultist should be good enough: only the blue tokens and unflipped tokens are guests. Flesh moulders are neither.

Wait guys, there is an errata printed that clears this up. Amongst the FAQ is:

Q. Does the Masquerade Ball end if only cultists are left unmasked?

A. No, the encounter cannot end before all guests are unmasked. After all guests are unmasked, if there are no guests or monsters remaining, the encounter ends.

This makes it clear from me and also makes sense from a role play aspect. Your character has no idea of the 'game rules' and does not know the ratio of cultists to real guests.

I've never really made a distinction between what the heroes know and what the hero players know, no more than I've made a distinction between what the monsters know and what the OL knows. If that's your experience of the game, that's fine, but I'm just trying to deal with the rules. The response in the FAQ is consistent that all unflipped tokens (masked guests) are defined as "guests," cultists or not. Only when a cultist is unmasked does it become a monster, and cease to be a guest.