How do you handle attachments that do the same thing? As an example - superior grants an automatic advantage. Fly Casual has an 'attachment' called 'paired weapons' which reduces the number of advantages required to hit with the second weapon. I wouldn't allow them to work together (which would essentially allow an automatic double hit).

Was hoping for some consensus.

How do you handle attachments that do the same thing? As an example - superior grants an automatic advantage. Fly Casual has an 'attachment' called 'paired weapons' which reduces the number of advantages required to hit with the second weapon. I wouldn't allow them to work together (which would essentially allow an automatic double hit).

Was hoping for some consensus.

The "automatic Advantage" still has to contend with Threat from the skill check.

This is very, very far from broken, especially when one considers a jury-rigged, superior Heavy Blaster Rifle

How do you handle attachments that do the same thing? As an example - superior grants an automatic advantage. Fly Casual has an 'attachment' called 'paired weapons' which reduces the number of advantages required to hit with the second weapon. I wouldn't allow them to work together (which would essentially allow an automatic double hit).

Was hoping for some consensus.

The "automatic Advantage" still has to contend with Threat from the skill check.

This is very, very far from broken, especially when one considers a jury-rigged, superior Heavy Blaster Rifle

I suppose that's true. It's one of those situations I sort of wonder what the developers had in mind. My mercenary soldier (2 ranks point blank) dual wielding Equalizers (base 7) would do 20 damage not counting extra successes or any additional attachments. Allowing that sort of stacking is essentially a damage doubler. (admittedly that's 2 separate damages, each separately reduced by soak)

How do you handle attachments that do the same thing? As an example - superior grants an automatic advantage. Fly Casual has an 'attachment' called 'paired weapons' which reduces the number of advantages required to hit with the second weapon. I wouldn't allow them to work together (which would essentially allow an automatic double hit).

Was hoping for some consensus.

The "automatic Advantage" still has to contend with Threat from the skill check.

This is very, very far from broken, especially when one considers a jury-rigged, superior Heavy Blaster Rifle

I suppose that's true. It's one of those situations I sort of wonder what the developers had in mind. My mercenary soldier (2 ranks point blank) dual wielding Equalizers (base 7) would do 20 damage not counting extra successes or any additional attachments. Allowing that sort of stacking is essentially a damage doubler. (admittedly that's 2 separate damages, each separately reduced by soak)

Probably that with a pair of pistols that are 2,600 credits and rarity 8 you will have similar output to a heavy rifle that is 1,500 and rarity 6.

Probably that with a pair of pistols that are 2,600 credits and rarity 8 you will have similar output to a heavy rifle that is 1,500 and rarity 6.

Is there a heavy rifle that does 20 damage?

Probably that with a pair of pistols that are 2,600 credits and rarity 8 you will have similar output to a heavy rifle that is 1,500 and rarity 6.

Is there a heavy rifle that does 20 damage?

10 base damage, auto-fire.

10 base damage, auto-fire.

That's certainly fair - would you allow 'automatic' advantages work for auto-fire?

Also consider that the gunslinger in question, with the dual pistols, is limited to one extra hit, while the heavy blaster user would have no upper limit on how many extra hits he can inflict.

10 base damage, auto-fire.

That's certainly fair - would you allow 'automatic' advantages work for auto-fire?

Advantage is Advantage. Best, IMO, not to split hairs. I wouldn't differentiate between "Advantage Generated By Dice Pips" and "Automatic Advantage," for so many reasons, not the least of which are fairness-to-the-player-who-just-bought-something-and-expects-it-to-work, and rules-adjudication-headaches-regarding-what-bonuses-came-from-where-and-do-they-apply-here-or-not.

EDIT: I swear I know how to play the game...really.

Also, an attempt at clarity. No promises.

Also consider that the gunslinger in question, with the dual pistols, would be attacking with a base difficulty of Average (2 Purple) and is limited to one extra hit, while the heavy blaster user would only be dealing with an Easy (1 Purple) check with no upper limit on how many extra hits he can inflict.

Attacking with autofire also increases the difficulty the same amount as dual wielding.

Autofire does have more potential added hits, however.

Also consider that the gunslinger in question, with the dual pistols, would be attacking with a base difficulty of Average (2 Purple) and is limited to one extra hit, while the heavy blaster user would only be dealing with an Easy (1 Purple) check with no upper limit on how many extra hits he can inflict.

Attacking with autofire also increases the difficulty the same amount as dual wielding.

Autofire does have more potential added hits, however.

*Smacks forehead*

Yes indeedy. I've had one cup of coffee too many for today, I think.

10 base damage, auto-fire.

That's certainly fair - would you allow 'automatic' advantages work for auto-fire?

Of course!

I'm not understanding why you have problems with automatic Advantage. Automatic or not it can still be negated by threat just the same. So all the extra purples, all the blacks (you are getting blacks right?) and the occasional red (faced any Adversaries yet?) can negate it just the same...

Of course!

I'm not understanding why you have problems with automatic Advantage. Automatic or not it can still be negated by threat just the same. So all the extra purples, all the blacks (you are getting blacks right?) and the occasional red (faced any Adversaries yet?) can negate it just the same...

My issue is the potential cheese factor. At first blush, a single success with no other symbols essentially does double damage. Yes, we've faced adversaries, so there are plenty of purples and a few reds. We get blacks from cover, darkness, smoke, etc. But those aren't as common as you are perhaps implying.

I guess rather than looking at it as 'it automatically triggers the second blaster hit/autofire' I need to look at it as 'it adds two advantage to the dice pool' (because as you rightly said, those can be cancelled as normal).

Thanks again for all feedback.

Ah i see. Yeah, the deal is by the time the players are supposed to be running around with a pair of superior rarity 8 heavy blaster pistols they are also supposed to need them.

Think of it as the FFG take on a +10 vorpal sword of extra snicker snacking, They players will eventually need one, but not at level 2.

Ah i see. Yeah, the deal is by the time the players are supposed to be running around with a pair of superior rarity 8 heavy blaster pistols they are also supposed to need them.

Think of it as the FFG take on a +10 vorpal sword of extra snicker snacking, They players will eventually need one, but not at level 2.

To be fair, that was only an example. It's not like you need a fortune to get two automatic advantage (or more). I could use 2 stock blaster pistols and add a couple of inexpensive attachments to get those 2 auto advantage. 'Paired weapons' from Fly Casual is only 300 credits for the pair, as an example. 'Bantha's Eye' from Dangerous Covenants is 500 credits. I could conceivably do that with a *starting* PC - and would want to as a gunslinger specialization.

I don't see a problem with a starting character having paired pistols with Bantha's Eye. The character would still have to overcome disadvantages from from an increased attack difficulty due to wielding two weapons. If she hits, great! That stormtrooper with 5 soak takes a few damage from each hit, possibly dropping him in one round if he's a minion.

Dual pistols seems so nasty because soak applies to every hit. Yes, with the baddest, most tricked out blaster available you may eventually be doing a lot of damage.

And your pilot character might get nightshadow coating, and electronic countermeasures suite, and tricky target, dropping a ship's silhouette by 3. Or your politico could deck the ship with an entertainment suite, wear a Kamperdine jacket, and have an ally use Loom while another one Good Cops the mark.

I don't see any of this as a problem, so long as you sometimes find a way to toss them a curve ball. Could be a Hutt with a lot of Nobody's Fool talents. Could be a rival Ace with a nice ship and a bunch of minions flying in formation. For the two gun mojo characters, their weakness is opponents with high soak: Assassin Droid with a soak of 7, Hutt with a soak of 10, Rancor with a soak of 12...

Thanks everyone for your feedback - I truly appreciate it.

I don't have an issue with tricking out multiple attachments that do the same thing, as long as they are doing the same thing a different way.

Sometimes, there's a clue to limiting attachments in the description of new weapons. I can't find my "Enter the Unknown" at the moment, but I think that's where the Lancer pistol is. One of the earliest new weapons to be published, I saw a potential issue with an enhanced weapon that still had hard points. A player wanted to get it and add a blaster actuating module to give it even more damage. I showed him the flavor text for the Lancer, which said that the weapon uses (don't have the exact wording here) a custom actuating module and special blend of gasses. Since the B.A.M. is not so much an attachment as a replacement, I told him that while he could replace the module, but it would end up being the same damage (plus a setback) Hard points or no, some things are so fine tuned you just don't want to mess with them.

He's playing a gadgeteer now, and I'm sure he's up to something.

I don't have an issue with tricking out multiple attachments that do the same thing, as long as they are doing the same thing a different way.

Sometimes, there's a clue to limiting attachments in the description of new weapons. I can't find my "Enter the Unknown" at the moment, but I think that's where the Lancer pistol is. One of the earliest new weapons to be published, I saw a potential issue with an enhanced weapon that still had hard points. A player wanted to get it and add a blaster actuating module to give it even more damage. I showed him the flavor text for the Lancer, which said that the weapon uses (don't have the exact wording here) a custom actuating module and special blend of gasses. Since the B.A.M. is not so much an attachment as a replacement, I told him that while he could replace the module, but it would end up being the same damage (plus a setback) Hard points or no, some things are so fine tuned you just don't want to mess with them.

He's playing a gadgeteer now, and I'm sure he's up to something.

They are always up to something!