As for the project itself, I'm curious to see how it shakes out.

I'd offer to help, but things have been far too crazy for me of late so I don't know how much time I'd have for working on a fan project.

Thanks for the interest and support though...and no worries lol, Its hard for me already with the hours I work ( 3am till 1 pm lol) so I can totally understand how real life gets in the way.

UPDATE: changed a few things on this one. I used the REBELS logo instead of the Edge of the Empire since this sourcebook can be used for any of the 3 games in the series.]

I prefer this cover, mainly because of the picture, the Ghost and the TIEs seems a more iconic picture for the series, probably because it was the first spoiler image I saw.

Looking forwards to seeing your sourcebook when done.

Personally I like Rebels series.

* Don't restrict it to ONE planet,

I see nothing wrong with fleshing out a base of operations, spending some time worldbuilding. I'd much rather have an all new planet than Tatooine again.

* don't give me TWO Jedi (when, according to the first SW film, "their fire has gone out of the universe")

Technically, neither of them are Jedi. The kid is just starting and Kanan was only a Padawan when the hammer dropped.

* don't give me characters with zero characterization

So how much of the show have you seen? Because they've been fleshing out the characters for a while now. I would much rather have development in dribs and drabs than one massive exposition episode.

* don't give me constant slapstick

You mean like R2's pratfalls, 3PO acting like a goof and Yoda being "wacky".

* and please DO give me some interesting stories.

Obviously the show isn't working for you. I think the first season of Rebels is WAY stronger than the first season (and premiere movie) of Clone Wars. Clone Wars was pretty good at the end. . . but really godaweful when it started.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, Desslok...

Even if they're dead wrong.

C'mon... To say "Clone Wars" was godawful when it started? (Ignoring the Malevolence arc, the lair of Grievous, "Jedi Crash," etc?) And that "Rebels" is "worldbuilding?" You're in serious denial.

Do we really know more about Lothal than "it has some farms, some markets, and an Imperial presence?" I think not.

Anyway, "Rebels" is a simplistic mess of a series with no characterization for most of its cast. The Imperials are never a threat so there is no real danger. And every ship or weapon has some kind of toy-friendly gimmick. Plus, our entrypoint character is Ezra. Freaking Ezra. 'Nuff said.

(Oh, and God knows how all these buffoons even met; the producers don't care to tell us in the same way the showrunners of "Teen Titans" have never told us how those five super-powered kids met. "Children don't care about that" has always been the official response.)

My guess is that Disney is taking a hands-on approach with "Rebels," and Filoni's hands, in turn, are tied.

But, again, people pouring themselves into a project that excites them?

Hey, even if I think the source material is lame as hell (ha), I can certainly get behind that kind of creativity and work ethic!

So have fun with this sourcebook.

But, again, people pouring themselves into a project that excites them?

Hey, even if I think the source material is lame as hell (ha), I can certainly get behind that kind of creativity and work ethic!

So have fun with this sourcebook.

Thanks. We have diametrically opposite views, but as civilised sentients we can agree to disagree.

Hopefully something cool can be created, even if it's not for you.

C'mon... To say "Clone Wars" was godawful when it started? (Ignoring the Malevolence arc, the lair of Grievous, "Jedi Crash," etc?) And that "Rebels" is "worldbuilding?" You're in serious denial.

Do we really know more about Lothal than "it has some farms, some markets, and an Imperial presence?" I think not.

Anyway, "Rebels" is a simplistic mess of a series with no characterization for most of its cast. The Imperials are never a threat so there is no real danger. And every ship or weapon has some kind of toy-friendly gimmick. Plus, our entrypoint character is Ezra. Freaking Ezra. 'Nuff said.

Pretty much the same can be said about your blind love for TCW TCW was pretty crap for a long while, the only reason to keep watching was the hope for it to get better (and cool lightsaber action at times), and it did, eventually, according to some fanboys. Although the first season, and arguably the second, were pretty meh, at best. The re-watch value of those seasons are about zero. It starts gaining some re-watch value over the third season. Granted, very little of Rebels so far has any re-watch value, but this is setting up the series, it is world building, just like the first series of TCW was. It's setting up premisses for the stories to be told. The denial in this case is to believe that the difference between TCW and Rebels are that great. Sure, TCW was the first and therefore established Star Wars on the animation scene, so it's the "original"... so what? So far they're pretty similar in my opinion. Simple, childish and meant for a young audience. If Rebels does as TCW, it will follow that audience, and grow with them. I see no good reason it won't.

TCW was pretty simple - the separatists was never really seen as a serious threat, they were about the same mook-level as the imperials are in Rebels. Of course that changed over time in TCW, and there's no reason not to expect these changes in Rebels (for instance the last story arc of season 1 could be a starting point of something more [hint: the inquisitor in Tarkin's office and those imperial officers?]), except from fanboy naysaying and pathos filled drivel based on a fear of change and new stuff.

Ahsoka turned out ok (arguably), but was hated when she first appeared, it seems this dislike of Rebels is just a mirror of how TCW was received by many... it's entertaining how things repeat themselves.

I think Ezra might be a lot more interesting than Ahsoka ever was, because Ezra has a past, a family, a history, Ahsoka didn't, she was a padawan, her story starts with Anakin (ok, there's some background stuff with Plo Koon, but that felt slapped on, just to give her some depth and a relationship to someone else than Anakin, someone who wasn't bound to go dark). Of course, the risk is that Ezra's story might be crap and boring, there was never any risk of that with Ahsoka.

So... Fulcrum. Boom. (Awesome head explosion). I don't want to ruin it for anyone. Just watch the season Finale.

C'mon... To say "Clone Wars" was godawful when it started? (Ignoring the Malevolence arc, the lair of Grievous, "Jedi Crash," etc?) And that "Rebels" is "worldbuilding?" You're in serious denial.

Do we really know more about Lothal than "it has some farms, some markets, and an Imperial presence?" I think not.

Anyway, "Rebels" is a simplistic mess of a series with no characterization for most of its cast. The Imperials are never a threat so there is no real danger. And every ship or weapon has some kind of toy-friendly gimmick. Plus, our entrypoint character is Ezra. Freaking Ezra. 'Nuff said.

Pretty much the same can be said about your blind love for TCW TCW was pretty crap for a long while, the only reason to keep watching was the hope for it to get better (and cool lightsaber action at times), and it did, eventually, according to some fanboys. Although the first season, and arguably the second, were pretty meh, at best. The re-watch value of those seasons are about zero. It starts gaining some re-watch value over the third season. Granted, very little of Rebels so far has any re-watch value, but this is setting up the series, it is world building, just like the first series of TCW was. It's setting up premisses for the stories to be told. The denial in this case is to believe that the difference between TCW and Rebels are that great. Sure, TCW was the first and therefore established Star Wars on the animation scene, so it's the "original"... so what? So far they're pretty similar in my opinion. Simple, childish and meant for a young audience. If Rebels does as TCW, it will follow that audience, and grow with them. I see no good reason it won't.

TCW was pretty simple - the separatists was never really seen as a serious threat, they were about the same mook-level as the imperials are in Rebels. Of course that changed over time in TCW, and there's no reason not to expect these changes in Rebels (for instance the last story arc of season 1 could be a starting point of something more [hint: the inquisitor in Tarkin's office and those imperial officers?]), except from fanboy naysaying and pathos filled drivel based on a fear of change and new stuff.

Ahsoka turned out ok (arguably), but was hated when she first appeared, it seems this dislike of Rebels is just a mirror of how TCW was received by many... it's entertaining how things repeat themselves.

I think Ezra might be a lot more interesting than Ahsoka ever was, because Ezra has a past, a family, a history, Ahsoka didn't, she was a padawan, her story starts with Anakin (ok, there's some background stuff with Plo Koon, but that felt slapped on, just to give her some depth and a relationship to someone else than Anakin, someone who wasn't bound to go dark). Of course, the risk is that Ezra's story might be crap and boring, there was never any risk of that with Ahsoka.

I'm basically the exact opposite of you. I liked most of the first two seasons, including the Malevolence arc prior to the point where Padme got shoved in and enjoyed the season three premiere but after that I feel that the quality of the series started going downhill fast and while later seasons had some arcs I liked they usually had many, many more that I disliked compared to the first two seasons as well

As a comparison

Season 1 had 7 episodes or arcs that I liked and the others were tolerable.

Season 2 had 5 episodes or arcs that I liked 2 I hated, and the rest were tolerable.

Season 3 had 3 arcs I liked, 5 I hated, and a copule of tolerable ones

Season 4 had 2 arcs I really liked, though I think one of those could have been better, and I basically hated the rest.

Season 5 was down to 1 arc I liked and hating the rest.

The Lost Missions had 2 arcs I liked and 2 I hated.

Legacy of Utapu wasn't bad but so far none of the other released or announced The Clone Wars Legacy material looks appealing to me, which sucks because from what I've read there were two other planned but unfinished arcs that I probably would have enjoyed.

As for Rebels there's been nothing so far which I liked as much as I enjoyed the best parts of the Clone Wars but there's been nothing I hate either. I just hope Rebels avoids the trap that The Clone Wars and much of the later Legends material fell into, namely the idea that pretty much everything needs to revolve around the Force.

C'mon... To say "Clone Wars" was godawful when it started? (Ignoring the Malevolence arc, the lair of Grievous, "Jedi Crash," etc?) And that "Rebels" is "worldbuilding?" You're in serious denial.

Yes, the clone wars for the first season was pretty fu*king aweful. Look, I dont mind Episodes 1-3 (and depending on my mood quite enjoy them from time to time) - but when I paid my 10 bucks to see the Clone Wars movie, I was legitimately pissed off at the franchise. I suddenly knew what it felt like to hate the prequels with the burning hatred of a thousand suns. Flamboyant Gay the Hutt was hundreds of times worse than Jar-Jar ever could hope to be in my mind.

The actual series proper was.. . . better, but it still struggled to find it's voice. It was watchable, but not actually what I would call "Good". It wasnt until a little into season 2 where it got it's legs under it.

(Oh, and God knows how all these buffoons even met; the producers don't care to tell us in the same way the showrunners of "Teen Titans" have never told us how those five super-powered kids met. "Children don't care about that" has always been the official response.)

Well, we know how Hera and Kanan met, we know (obivously) how the kid was brought in - so over 50% of the team has met your criteria of introductions being nessassary, and we're only 13 episodes into the run.

Also - since when is knowing someone's backstory important to enjoying a series. 50 years on and we've only gotten hints and suggestions of the Doctor's backstory and his pre-wandering Time and Space life. Doesnt make him any less an interesting character.

And we've gotten lots of backstory and set up - Kanan just got some more this week, Zeb was a Honor Guard and has a beef with Kallus, the Kid had his parents worked into the narrative - the only one we're still missing much detail on is Sabine.

Now, lets compare to - oh, say Han Solo and what we learn in JUST the movies. Owes money to Jabba, is pretty good pilot, and . . . um. . . .won the Falcon from a guy named Lando. Just about the same amount of information, really. Perhaps even a bit less.

As for Rebels there's been nothing so far which I liked as much as I enjoyed the best parts of the Clone Wars but there's been nothing I hate either. I just hope Rebels avoids the trap that The Clone Wars and much of the later Legends material fell into, namely the idea that pretty much everything needs to revolve around the Force.

We can somewhat agree on that it seems. At least when it comes to that awful bunch of novels ...

As for you being the opposite of me? I enjoyed some of TCW, but probably not half as much as you or other fans. The question of quality easily becomes a subjective issue, and then it easily becomes meaningless as a conversation or discussion at the very least. The standard used to judge quality will necessarily differ. Of course, there's critics and educated artists and whatnot... but do they really, I mean really know anything we don't? Sure. They do, they're educated, schooled... but does it matter? Isn't this like with beer, wine or whisky (and food)? It's your own palate that decides what you like, no matter what some moron "expert" says about this or that wine, or this or that whisky... same thing with stuff like this I guess. It's taste.

I guess it can be interesting to discuss, if there are some common ground and common principles to measure quality, but if it boils down to what we "like" or "not like" ... well, meh.

And we've gotten lots of backstory and set up - Kanan just got some more this week, Zeb was a Honor Guard and has a beef with Kallus, the Kid had his parents worked into the narrative - the only one we're still missing much detail on is Sabine.

Now, lets compare to - oh, say Han Solo and what we learn in JUST the movies. Owes money to Jabba, is pretty good pilot, and . . . um. . . .won the Falcon from a guy named Lando. Just about the same amount of information, really. Perhaps even a bit less.

Hmmm, I could be wrong, but I thought Sabine and Han shared something in common in that they are both drop outs from the Imperial Academy.

As for Rebels there's been nothing so far which I liked as much as I enjoyed the best parts of the Clone Wars but there's been nothing I hate either. I just hope Rebels avoids the trap that The Clone Wars and much of the later Legends material fell into, namely the idea that pretty much everything needs to revolve around the Force.

We can somewhat agree on that it seems. At least when it comes to that awful bunch of novels ...

As for you being the opposite of me? I enjoyed some of TCW, but probably not half as much as you or other fans. The question of quality easily becomes a subjective issue, and then it easily becomes meaningless as a conversation or discussion at the very least. The standard used to judge quality will necessarily differ. Of course, there's critics and educated artists and whatnot... but do they really, I mean really know anything we don't? Sure. They do, they're educated, schooled... but does it matter? Isn't this like with beer, wine or whisky (and food)? It's your own palate that decides what you like, no matter what some moron "expert" says about this or that wine, or this or that whisky... same thing with stuff like this I guess. It's taste.

I guess it can be interesting to discuss, if there are some common ground and common principles to measure quality, but if it boils down to what we "like" or "not like" ... well, meh.

This is entirely true, and I'll give you a good example (which will probably get me kicked off these boards lol!).

I really, really did not like the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series. The things most people seem to LOVE (e.g. Windu's battle against the droid army) I thought was just so comedically over the top it was a farce. Trumps anything Jar Jar did for me. People complain about the TCW "wooden" character style, but the Gendy style is way more of a caricature. Etc etc. Other than the general stories themselves, I didn't like much about it.

Does that make it bad?

Absolutely not . I can objectively say that there was a lot of love, talent and heart put into that show. The production values were great. The art style was WELL DONE. But it just wasn't for ME. I won't argue with people, or complain on message boards, or whatever, because as you eloquently put it Jegergryte, it's all subjective, and that gets nowhere fast.

Sometimes it's enough to love something for it's own sake without having to defend yourself constantly. As I said in another post, it's fine to agree to disagree now and then.

For me? Much of Star Wars (especially when I watch things with my daughter) gives me a little reminder of being that excited kid back in the cinema in the 70's and 80's. That's wholly subjective

I didn't like the Tartakovksy Clone Wars series either, so you're not on an island on that one, MrDodger.

I like it all, or most of it, but that doesn't make it any better than it is - it is possible to like crap stuff too... It's not like my love for it magically improves the quality of the shows I like. Neither the love of millions makes something necessarily good, it just makes it loved. Which may prove some level of quality, but it's not (necessarily) a causal relationship. People tend to forget that.

Well, the Tartakovksy series was also only maybe 5 - 10 minutes long per episode? It isn't like he had a heck of a lot of time for world or character building.

It was basically samurai jack with star wars. Fun but not terribly deep.

And we've gotten lots of backstory and set up - Kanan just got some more this week, Zeb was a Honor Guard and has a beef with Kallus, the Kid had his parents worked into the narrative - the only one we're still missing much detail on is Sabine.

Now, lets compare to - oh, say Han Solo and what we learn in JUST the movies. Owes money to Jabba, is pretty good pilot, and . . . um. . . .won the Falcon from a guy named Lando. Just about the same amount of information, really. Perhaps even a bit less.

Hmmm, I could be wrong, but I thought Sabine and Han shared something in common in that they are both drop outs from the Imperial Academy.

I'm not sure if it has been covered in canon yet but in Legends Han wasn't an Imperial Academy dropout. He graduated the academy, served for a while and then was dishonorably discharged after stunning his commander to stop his CO from killing Chewie.

As for Rebels there's been nothing so far which I liked as much as I enjoyed the best parts of the Clone Wars but there's been nothing I hate either. I just hope Rebels avoids the trap that The Clone Wars and much of the later Legends material fell into, namely the idea that pretty much everything needs to revolve around the Force.

We can somewhat agree on that it seems. At least when it comes to that awful bunch of novels ...

As for you being the opposite of me? I enjoyed some of TCW, but probably not half as much as you or other fans. The question of quality easily becomes a subjective issue, and then it easily becomes meaningless as a conversation or discussion at the very least. The standard used to judge quality will necessarily differ. Of course, there's critics and educated artists and whatnot... but do they really, I mean really know anything we don't? Sure. They do, they're educated, schooled... but does it matter? Isn't this like with beer, wine or whisky (and food)? It's your own palate that decides what you like, no matter what some moron "expert" says about this or that wine, or this or that whisky... same thing with stuff like this I guess. It's taste.

I guess it can be interesting to discuss, if there are some common ground and common principles to measure quality, but if it boils down to what we "like" or "not like" ... well, meh.

This is entirely true, and I'll give you a good example (which will probably get me kicked off these boards lol!).

I really, really did not like the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series. The things most people seem to LOVE (e.g. Windu's battle against the droid army) I thought was just so comedically over the top it was a farce. Trumps anything Jar Jar did for me. People complain about the TCW "wooden" character style, but the Gendy style is way more of a caricature. Etc etc. Other than the general stories themselves, I didn't like much about it.

Does that make it bad?

Absolutely not . I can objectively say that there was a lot of love, talent and heart put into that show. The production values were great. The art style was WELL DONE. But it just wasn't for ME. I won't argue with people, or complain on message boards, or whatever, because as you eloquently put it Jegergryte, it's all subjective, and that gets nowhere fast.

Sometimes it's enough to love something for it's own sake without having to defend yourself constantly. As I said in another post, it's fine to agree to disagree now and then.

For me? Much of Star Wars (especially when I watch things with my daughter) gives me a little reminder of being that excited kid back in the cinema in the 70's and 80's. That's wholly subjective

I didn't like the Tartakovksy Clone Wars series either, so you're not on an island on that one, MrDodger.

There are a couple of episodes of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars but mostly it was too much flash and too little story for my tastes. The only reason I own it is because some relatives bought the DVDs for me because they knew that I love Star Wars

As for Rebels there's been nothing so far which I liked as much as I enjoyed the best parts of the Clone Wars but there's been nothing I hate either. I just hope Rebels avoids the trap that The Clone Wars and much of the later Legends material fell into, namely the idea that pretty much everything needs to revolve around the Force.

We can somewhat agree on that it seems. At least when it comes to that awful bunch of novels ...

As for you being the opposite of me? I enjoyed some of TCW, but probably not half as much as you or other fans. The question of quality easily becomes a subjective issue, and then it easily becomes meaningless as a conversation or discussion at the very least. The standard used to judge quality will necessarily differ. Of course, there's critics and educated artists and whatnot... but do they really, I mean really know anything we don't? Sure. They do, they're educated, schooled... but does it matter? Isn't this like with beer, wine or whisky (and food)? It's your own palate that decides what you like, no matter what some moron "expert" says about this or that wine, or this or that whisky... same thing with stuff like this I guess. It's taste.

I guess it can be interesting to discuss, if there are some common ground and common principles to measure quality, but if it boils down to what we "like" or "not like" ... well, meh.

Sorry I misread the message I was replying too apparently.

But my big problem with The Clone Wars was the sidestory arcs. I didn't mind them when there were only two or three per season but as time went on the sidestory arcs started outnumbering the arcs focused on the military or political maneuverings of the Clone Wars with most of the sidestories focusing on the Jedi and/or the Force, Maul whose return I hated, and of course the horror of the Mandalorian detective kids arc.

Ah hence the life debt. Now that you mention it I think I rember hearing something along those lines. Thanks.

Funny, I thought this thread was for discussing a fan-made sourcebook based upon the Star Wars Rebels show, not a pissing match between which series (Rebels or TCW) was better or not.

I've got my own opinions, but since they're not relevant to the topic, not much need for me to post them here. Of course, if someone wants to start up a new thread to discuss/debate the merits and flaws of those respective series, I'd probably chime in there, since it'd be both appropriate and on-topic for that thread.

I thought I would ask how is the Sourcebook going now that the First Season of Rebels is done.

I thought I would ask how is the Sourcebook going now that the First Season of Rebels is done.

AGREED!

It's in progress. It won't be imminent, but will hopefully be worth the wait

It's in progress. It won't be imminent, but will hopefully be worth the wait

You mean, the fan book?

It's in progress. It won't be imminent, but will hopefully be worth the wait

You mean, the fan book?

Indeed

Awesome, looking forward to it. Let me know what can I help with

One thing I think would be cool is what AEG did with the Stargate RPG. They produced a book for each season of the show and provided a synopsis of each episode with ideas for GM's to use in their games. Unfortunately they only got the first two seasons done before they lost the licence....really wanted to see how they would've handled the events in "Window of Opportunity".