Whatever the case may be, balanced or not, there's an extremely good reason it has seen play since release, and will especially continue to see play now that a lot of top tier cards and decks have been abolished.

MarcoPulleaux said:

My god, so.. if I play a momentum tutor...with iraspinta... thats a good two card combo? MY GOD BAN SPINTA WHAT WAS I THINKING!? EVERYTHING ELSE I SAID ABOUT THE CARD IS UNIMPORTANT BECAUSE IF I PLAY A WAY TO GET CARDS OUT OF MY MOMENTUM SPINTA IS BROKEN!!

Wait, doesn't that work both ways... if my opponent plays a momentum tutor like Hybrid Style doesn't he get back the cards I just shoved in? So why wouldn't I just shove those cards in? Or wait, why wouldnt he shove my momentum tutor in?

Selective removal at a 2 for 1 ratio on a two check attack I'm making the control check for and running in my deck? My god, I'm actually BENEFITTING BY PLAYING THIS ATTACK! BAN IT RIGHT NOW!!!! I WAS WRONG! I WAS HORRIBLY HORRBILYYY WRONGGGGG!

Balanced card is both very good and very balanced. Sorry if it rubs you wrong and sets off some sort of shinjialarm

Suija said:

For a throw, if it were a 3 check, it would have average stats, as a 2 check throw it's stats are below average(for good reason) anyone can look on THD and figure this out for themselves, no point in going over it more.

And I read your post with you mentioning reversals, and you specifically said that nobody really plays reversals, then listed off ones that do see play. Since Feline spike is the kill condition of choice for MANY deck on all levels and skills of play, I listed it to disagree with your point about reversals not seeing play, I see them all the time.

And I agree with you on that, if you don't like the card, I can't make you see why it's a beautifully balanced attack. I think Ira-spinta is a neccessary card in the meta to deal with Grey wall based decks and is the main orange card that gives other orange cards a chance to do their thing. It keeps mill and obscene defensive decks in check in this block, I think it is a good thing.

failed2k said:

Cards should have a cost. Ira-Spinta's cost is that your opponent can selectively add a card to your momentum, which causes somewhat of a thinking game as to when you should play it, how you should, etc etc. However, when you run momentum tutor (as every Spinta player does), it gets rid of the cost and places your opponent at a -2 advantage while you've lost nothing in the process. Let's not forget these are ANY two non-character cards.

Ira Spinta needs a drawback. With the way the card is played, it has none. It's power > cost/drawback = bannable.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Wait, so if I play a card that recovers the card put into my momentum, spinta has absolutely no cost/drawback? That is seriously the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. It's like saying that If I play card draw to fuel the Discard foundations, My discard foundations are costless! They are way too strong! How dare you have synergy in your deck!?

Basically If I play cards to help compensate for the cost/difficulty of my other cards with strong effects, that makes any card with a good effect bannable, is the logic im getting here.

And

I'm in awe of this logic, seriously. It is amazing.

Oh yeah, and the person getting spinta'd can put your momentum tutors into your momentum too, this is possible, it doesnt break some unspoken rule. Also the opposing player can use his momentum for whatever he wants, recur it, attack with it, use things like kabuki artist or hybrid style. That isn't against the rules.

Still in awe.

MarcoPulleaux said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

I'm not sure which tutor you're using but I'm not sure of any that immediately put the card back in play so that I didn't loose anything. Oh right there is none... So there is a cost, it may be negligeable at times, but its there. Plus that whole 2 check thing. Theres also anti draw cards out there that stop the tutoring and your opponent can tutor as well.

In fantasy "My opponent is going to let me do anything I want, has nothing to counter anything, and just lets me play solitare because I'm sooooo awesome!" land you're correct its completely unballanced. But we don't quite live there do we?

MarcoPulleaux said:

Do you know how many times in tournament I've had an opponent either not play Spinta, or not play the E when playing it? So many I've lost count. If the E was so costless, I wouldn't have my opponent sit on the Spinta, or decline to use it's E.

Is it a good card? Yes.

But by your description, since many of the cards in the game through careful planning and execution can have their costs/drawbacks minimized/negated, many cards should be bannable.

Heck, becuase of what Tira can do with Raging Gnome, that means it's bannable too!

I would put spints on the power level of chain throw for block 2 . Both good cards but most likely wont be banned. Especially now when order doesn't have chinese boxing or olcadans to push through your lotus and no memories.

Scubadude said:

When did order loose chinese boxing? A player can still play chinese boxing on their attack...infact thats the only time they can use that to lock down their opponent. What stops them from playing spinta, chinese, chinese, then spinta's e?

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

I was mostly referring to the blatant fanboyism.

God, this new banlist made my deck so much easier to play now...

I think we're in for a VERY fun Worlds.

We will be playing the same deck cause it's the deck that I find to be the best

failed2k said:

The point is that the cost is too small and can easily be overriden when compared to its amazing effect. Its effect is too great for a cost so small.

Let's not forget, you're one of the many people who fought me when I spoke against bans, and now almost everything I wanted banned is banned, so uh...

I fully stand by the following statement:

Ispin is on the same power level as Shadow Blade.

I know a lot of people will read that and go "Then why hasent shadow blade seen more play". The answer lies in some of the cards that were just banned. Ispin saw play because it had 2-3 symbols that were all very strong because of synergistic support, while shadowblades symbols lacked as cohesive a theme. With the banning of some of these cards, death good and water jump very far up the line on the heals of this card alone.

Granted both these cards have different uses and ups and downs, but overall i would contend they are on the same relitave tier as each other.

I thought about the exact same thing Addict, but symbols aside, here's my concern...

Shadow Blade only destroys foundations. You must destroy one yourself, and even then it must have a difficulty greater than or equal to the foundation you wish to destroy.

Ira-Spinta adds a card from your staging area to your momentum (which may prove useful anyways), but thanks to natural tutor cards such as From the Mouse, you'll be able to immediately get the added card back if you wish. Ira-Spinta is a Throw. Finally, Spinta selects ANY 2 NON-CHARACTER cards, not just foundations, and ignoring difficulties.

They are comprable, that's for sure. However, Spinta's power is, unfortunately, much greater than Shadow Blade's.

MarcoPulleaux said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

Didn't you want bans for the sake of power level though. Most of the second wave bans were based on flavor of the game more so than power from what I can tell. Flavor dictates that tiger fury is sagat onlt / Fspike goes to cat girl. Plus it dosent take a genius to figure out makai and the owl would go, so on and so forth. I wouldnt be so quick to take credit for this, honestly we have yet to even see what the bans acatully do to the game, if they even have a positive effect. Im actually worried that rejections ban is not a great idea, as it feels more like a nessasary evil than anything else. The game needs a card like that, lets see what happens without it.

Protoaddict said:

I'd say iSpin is a bit more powerful due to throw status and taking out 2 cards. Same tier though. Shadow Blade is soooo good, and a reversal too hint hint.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Shinji,

By removing Olcadan's, the stuff that can protect against I-Spin, doesn't have to withstand both owlface and I-spin.

By removing LotM, the greatest enabler of I-Spin is now gone.

In the new Meta, damage reduction is a giant monster. It's no longer a garuntee that I-Spin will do damage and go to the momentum to be recured.

By Removing Chesters, the cards that protected against I Spin are no longer easily negated. (Flashing back to a game against Matt Kohls at PotM - I had No Memories on the field, he had Chesters, and he protected I-Spin's enhance with Chesters, no longer would I get rocked by I spin in that return match)

I understand you'd like every card in the game banned (sarcasm), just so you can sit there and gloat "I told you the game was broken and wouldn't last." (More sarcasm) but there comes a point where seriously - play the game.

There are countless folks posting throughout these boards "Order is irrelevant", "Air is dead", I think I saw somewhere you post that fire is trash and unplayable as well. (You post a lot, and say a lot, so forgive me if I've misquoted you.)

We get that you don't like I-Spin. We get that you think it should be banned. While you want to pat yourself on the back, about how you were right about something you posted... can I point to a post you recently made where you were dramatically wrong? When someone else had posted the correct information earlier in the day? Seriously, this is similar to the hypothesis that 1,000,000 Monkeys, banging away on 1,000,000 typewriters will eventually churn out Shakespear. You write so much, eventually something you say has to be true.

Well, you can find my reasons for wanting these cards banned elsewhere, but obviously, I wanted them banned because they were the automatic go-to's for almost every deck that could run them, and overshadowed the concept of ingenuity. Now we can run Combo, character-only, etc, without fear of Bitter Rivals. We can run multiple Charismatic, Destiny, etc, without being afraid Olcadan's will replace them against a moment of our choosing. We don't have to worry about staring down giant Order control walls (necessarily) or facing a Hanzo deck that could win by running 1 attack.

So yes, obviously I wanted them banned due to their overpowered status, which has been my intent since day 1. Anything broken needs to go. Period. Thus has been my motto since day one, and while many have chanted against me, giving me lists of counters, saying, "Quit complaining and try using counters", the fact of the matter has, and always will be, that broken card is broken, and the only true and appropriate cure is to ban or errata it (or, you know, not make it to begin with). FFG may not have had the same motives or thought process, but I'm sure it was similar.

It doesn't matter. The bans make me happy, as they do many other people. It's only by coincidence that all of these "top tier players" have been telling me I'm crazy, and look who won that battle? =D

Antigoth said:

Damage reduction is a giant monster = theory. It will either prove itself in time through regionals and the upcoming worlds, or will be but a misunderstanding of the meta. I haven't made any comment as to my predictions as to what's going to unfold because, as usual, I'd like to think things through before opening my mouth.

Anybody who says Order is irrelevant or Air is dead is stupid. They lost some great tools, but they still have options, enough so to matter. Fire isn't trash; I have, and still stand by the fact, that Fire is in UFS limbo. It's not bad at all...but it's having a hard time right now shining, not being overlooked by Death, Earth, or Evil, all 3 of which share lots of cards with Fire.

Why are you bringing up my conversation with FFG? I posted that based off information I received. I didn't just say, "HEY GUYS, TEKKEN WILL BE OUT BEFORE WORLDS", only to be proven wrong. I was told by a man named Rick that it might be out, and I was merely a messenger reporting what I'd heard.

Eventually something I say has to be true? Yeah, like Makai, Olcadan's, Chester's, Rejection, Chun-Li, etc, are all broken and need to be banned, and Feline needs Felicia multiple to be balanced.

Also, Transformers 2 was a garbage film, and almost every reputable movie critic has agreed. Even Megan Fox said the film focuses almost all on special effects, and little on acting.

MarcoPulleaux said:

You didn't win any battle. All you did was post on a forum that FFG staff do not read.

You participated in one regional tournament, with a deck that was sub-optimal by your own statement.

This wasn't "your personal crusade to win."

You want to win? You want to stand there and beat your chest? You want an accomplishment to be proud of?

Go out and teach some folks how to play UFS.

Go write some articles on deck building to teach new players how to build decks, and how to become more comfortable in the game.

These forums and the majority of the content does not endear people to UFS or cause it to grow.

Grow the game, then start beating your chest.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Omar already rocked out a prototype of that with Zangy Mill. Won the MWCC II Regional, as well as top 8'd the US Nats with it. The bans don't have a tremendous effect on the deck. There is a concern on a few fronts that it may become the dominant deck type. Hence why I keep bringing it up, as an education so that people can be prepared to deal with the deck. Or at least to get people to start thinking about how to deal with it.

MarcoPulleaux said:

You brought up how right you were, and was using that your correct posts should be a basis for acceptance that you are automatically correct in what you say. I was just pointing out that not everything you post turns out to be correct or true.

MarcoPulleaux said:

You know... I saw it on Sunday... and I thought it was a great Transformers Episode. I mean seriously... sit down and watch some classic G1 Transformers Episodes, then go watch Transformers 2. Stuff blew up, transformers transformed, Optimus Prime and Jetfire kicked some ass, and did I mention, some stuff blew up? The 8 year old two seats over from me kept yelling out "WOAH!", so I think somebody liked it. Oh yeah... it's a movie about giant robots that transform into cars and stuff. As for using Megan Fox as an authority on acting... um... dude... if you replaced it with citing Megan Fox as an authority on er... "assets"... that I could take seriously.

Wait... when did this become about giant Robots that trash Shanghai?

Antigoth said:

I'm going to create a thread in the off-topic about Transformers and what a god awful movie it was (which, apparently, every "respected" (their words, not mine) critic agrees). Lookin forward to seeing you there!

And I have been promoting the game. I introduced it to my best friend, his girlfriend, and another girl friend of mine. Another friend is teaching his girlfriend, and come next semester at school, I'm planning on bringing the decks with me =).

Just want to add some thoughts from singapore.

I realized I have been a fool and took this game too seriously, investing money and time into this game. Like when you buy shares, and the shares becomes worthless, you only have yourself to blame.

Glad to say I've learned my lesson. From now on, my purchases of UFS will be kept at a minimum.

The only thing I can say with certainty is I'll be collecting character cards.

I'll continue playing this for light entertainment.

See you in the ring, and may your 6checks always land in your ringside pile