So this came up last night. I was running Tarn + R7 against one of those new **** IG-2000s packing AC.

He attacked Tarn and rolled two natural hits and two blanks. If I make him re-roll the two hits with R7, can he just re-roll those then cancel his dice and still get 2 hits with AC? Or does/should he declare AC, and not allow me to modify his dice? Seems like it is a decent counter to R7 if the latter is the case.

Defender always modifies attack dice first, then Attacker modifies attack dice. So you could use R7, then he can decide whether to use Accuracy Corrector.

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

This is not agreed upon, until we get word from Frank this is still highly argued.

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

Why would AC (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "A") trigger at a different time than the "Modify Attack Dice" step (step 3) of an attack?

AC is formulated the same way Han's ability is...

Han Solo: "When attacking, you may reroll all of your dice. If you choose to do so, you must reroll as many of your dice as possible."

Accuracy Corrector: "When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 [hit] results. Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack."

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

Why would AC (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "A") trigger at a different time than the "Modify Attack Dice" step (step 3) of an attack?

AC is formulated the same way Han's ability is...

Han Solo: "When attacking, you may reroll all of your dice. If you choose to do so, you must reroll as many of your dice as possible."

Accuracy Corrector: "When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 [hit] results. Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack."

Thaaaaaank you. Seriously, I feel like I was the only one who felt this way sometimes.

People like Buhallin and StephenEsven believe it happens during the Compare Results step because there is a snippet in the rules that says "all effects that cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the Compare Results" step. I feel they are just misinterpreting this sentence.

Because why on Earth would an ability that allows an ATTACKER to MODIFY ATTACK DICE be used at any time other than "Attacker Modifies Attack Dice"? It's just ridiculous.

I sent an email to Frank to hopefully out this officially to rest.

I sent an email to Frank to hopefully out this officially to rest.

Yeah, they haven't been as good about responding to those lately it seems. There have (reportedly) been at elast 3 emails sent to them about damaged sensor array in the past 2 months (?), and so far no one has posted an answer.

With S&V now released, I wonder if Frank is going to respond to those associated emails, or just hope an updated FAQ will cover all the bases for him. I would imagine his email backlog to be rather large by now.

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

Why would AC (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "A") trigger at a different time than the "Modify Attack Dice" step (step 3) of an attack?

AC is formulated the same way Han's ability is...

Han Solo: "When attacking, you may reroll all of your dice. If you choose to do so, you must reroll as many of your dice as possible."

Accuracy Corrector: "When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 [hit] results. Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack."

Thaaaaaank you. Seriously, I feel like I was the only one who felt this way sometimes.

People like Buhallin and StephenEsven believe it happens during the Compare Results step because there is a snippet in the rules that says "all effects that cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the Compare Results" step. I feel they are just misinterpreting this sentence.

Because why on Earth would an ability that allows an ATTACKER to MODIFY ATTACK DICE be used at any time other than "Attacker Modifies Attack Dice"? It's just ridiculous.

I sent an email to Frank to hopefully out this officially to rest.

Opportunist also has the text 'When attacking' but that does not mean it happens in 3. Modify Attack Dice

Heavy Laser Cannon tells you to modify dice 'Immediately after rolling' which is in 2. Roll Attack Dice

So while most abilities that modify dice happen in 3. Modify Attack Dice, there is precedence that abilities can happen at other times during the attack.

AC states 'When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 Hit results.'

The rules state "All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step."

The first sentence of AC clearly allows the player to cancel dice. The second sentence starts with Then, meaning after you cancel the dice, you add the 2 Hit results.

I have put forth this in several threads, and I am aware that some people have a different opinion, but they have yet to produce a single piece of rules quotes to support this. The counter argument is usually just along the line "You modify dice results, so it must happen in 3. Modify Attack Dice"

I look forward to a response from Frank, now that the card has been released. And I will stand by any answer published in an FAQ, but until then I stand by my reasoning above.

And remember, A is resolved in Step 6, after defence dice are rolled and modified. So there should be no doubt when what happens.

Why would AC (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "A") trigger at a different time than the "Modify Attack Dice" step (step 3) of an attack?

AC is formulated the same way Han's ability is...

Han Solo: "When attacking, you may reroll all of your dice. If you choose to do so, you must reroll as many of your dice as possible."

Accuracy Corrector: "When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 [hit] results. Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack."

Thaaaaaank you. Seriously, I feel like I was the only one who felt this way sometimes.

People like Buhallin and StephenEsven believe it happens during the Compare Results step because there is a snippet in the rules that says "all effects that cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the Compare Results" step. I feel they are just misinterpreting this sentence.

Because why on Earth would an ability that allows an ATTACKER to MODIFY ATTACK DICE be used at any time other than "Attacker Modifies Attack Dice"? It's just ridiculous.

I sent an email to Frank to hopefully out this officially to rest.

Opportunist also has the text 'When attacking' but that does not mean it happens in 3. Modify Attack Dice

Heavy Laser Cannon tells you to modify dice 'Immediately after rolling' which is in 2. Roll Attack Dice

So while most abilities that modify dice happen in 3. Modify Attack Dice, there is precedence that abilities can happen at other times during the attack.

AC states 'When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results. Then, you may add 2 Hit results.'

The rules state "All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step."

The first sentence of AC clearly allows the player to cancel dice. The second sentence starts with Then, meaning after you cancel the dice, you add the 2 Hit results.

I have put forth this in several threads, and I am aware that some people have a different opinion, but they have yet to produce a single piece of rules quotes to support this. The counter argument is usually just along the line "You modify dice results, so it must happen in 3. Modify Attack Dice"

I look forward to a response from Frank, now that the card has been released. And I will stand by any answer published in an FAQ, but until then I stand by my reasoning above.

Then please enlighten me as to what the purpose of the sentence "Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack." on Accuracy corrector is for. If the time has passed for any other modification to the dice, then why add this? It would be superfluous if you were correct.

At the time the card was spoiled, the text made sense, since future cards might allow this. Or maybe the designer had the same idea that this happened in 3. Modify Attack Dice because he didn't recall the last sentence on page 13 of he rules.

Since then the FAQ has actually rendered the sentence superfluous as added results are now treated as results that can only be cancelled.

I haven't actually seen the card in print yet, but I take it the text is still there. They could have removed it since the FAQ already prevents modifying the added results.

But it still does not warrant ignoring the fact that the rules clearly state exactly when abilities that allow users to cancel dice results must happen.

Or maybe the designer had the same idea that this happened in 3. Modify Attack Dice because he didn't recall the last sentence on page 13 of he rules.

Can we please - PLEASE - not get into this again? It's been argued repeatedly, nobody is going to change their mind or even their points, and it's almost as irrelevant as the Ion/DtF discussion in terms of actual game impact. Hopefully they'll hit it in he FAQ, but even if they don't it's never going to matter (at least with the current card pool), so there's no point in going into it except as some sort of silly ego scaling exercise.

Or maybe the designer had the same idea that this happened in 3. Modify Attack Dice because he didn't recall the last sentence on page 13 of he rules.

The designer... forgot the rules? This is a joke right?

Seriously, I think your arguments on his are wobbly in the first place. PLEASE don't try to add FFGs infallibility on top.

The designer... forgot the rules? This is a joke right?

I would actually argue that the game designers are MORE likely to forget what the rules actually say, given that they will know the dozens of things that they almost said. Keeping track of which obscure rule out of many similar ones actually made it to print is hard.

The designer... forgot the rules? This is a joke right?

I would actually argue that the game designers are MORE likely to forget what the rules actually say, given that they will know the dozens of things that they almost said. Keeping track of which obscure rule out of many similar ones actually made it to print is hard.

Isn't that the point of having QA and testing? To pick up mistakes or omissions like that?

Isn't that the point of having QA and testing? To pick up mistakes or omissions like that?

Truly not knocking FFG here, because I'm well aware of the challenges for good QA. But any objections to Forgottenlore's comment have quite the mountain of historical evidence to climb.

Just to toss in my two cents on the issue actually at play: it's difficult because the card has a single effect, but that effect matches two different and mutually exclusive timing instructions. It instructs you to cancel dice, which (probably) has to be done immediately before canceling dice--but it also instructs you to add results, which is specifically a thing that happens as a dice modification. The facts back up either both sides of the discussion or neither side.

Personally, I think it should be treated as a dice modification, because it just makes more sense there. But that's an opinion, not an argument.

I would actually argue that the game designers are MORE likely to forget what the rules actually say, given that they will know the dozens of things that they almost said. Keeping track of which obscure rule out of many similar ones actually made it to print is hard.

And as has Buhallin pointed out, this is one of the more obscure rules in the book: Accuracy Corrector is literally the first card in the game that might actually qualify.

Isn't that the point of having QA and testing? To pick up mistakes or omissions like that?

Yes, it is. But QA and testing aren't infallible, either; playtesters are (ideally, anyway) experienced, thoughtful, and knowledgeable players, but they're still just players.

Just to toss in my two cents on the issue actually at play: it's difficult because the card has a single effect, but that effect matches two different and mutually exclusive timing instructions. It instructs you to cancel dice, which (probably) has to be done immediately before canceling dice--but it also instructs you to add results, which is specifically a thing that happens as a dice modification. The facts back up either both sides of the discussion or neither side.

Dice roll modification is not bound 100% to 3. Modify Attack dice. Certain cards have different timing instructions. Heavy Laser Cannon has a clear timing of Immediately after rolling the dice. Accuracy Corrector has a clear timing of doing it after you cancel the dice roll.

Which is why I don't think there is a conflict of timing instructions. There is only one timing instruction that tells you when to initiate the card ability, The rest is executed relative to that. And you can't argue that you should ignore the timing rule on dice cancelling abilities, just because you want the second part in the text to happen where you think it should be, when there is concrete proof that the rules does not support it.

I don't see the issue here, since the defender has the chance to modify dice first, he does. Then the defender modifies dice. To me canceling all dice and generating two hits is just a separate process.

It instructs you to cancel dice, which (probably) has to be done immediately before canceling dice--but it also instructs you to add results, which is specifically a thing that happens as a dice modification.

The same issue exists for other effects which occur outside the Modify Results Steps - Heavy Laser Cannon and C-3PO are solid examples for this. The ability tells you to modify dice, which normally only occurs in those steps, but you do it outside those steps.

It's a little easier with those because we have clear timing instructions on the trigger. Here we don't, so there is the question of which one we use. The answer (IMHO) is straightforward - the first element defines the "type" of ability.

But as mentioned, at least for now it's really pretty irrelevant. The amount of hostility some have attached to this discussion is kinda baffling, honestly.

...So... If the attacker rolls anything less than 3 natural hits, making them re-roll their attack dice with R7 is a futile effort and a waste of a TL. If they have AC of course. Just wanted to clarify that for future strategy... didn't mean for it to get heated.

The Accuracy Corrector debate will remain heated until FFG advises the correct use. But either way, AC will make R7 somewhat useless.