This is the reason I only by about 2 of something to being with. Eventually, FFG will put out Scum Y- and Z- single-fighter expansions, and you can get your extra generics that way. I only had 2 Interceptors, A-Wings and B-Wings prior to their respective Aces packs.

On the other hand, I do need to start tracking down some more TIE Advanced...

I am curious if/when FFG will release standalone bubble packs for scum ships. I just don't see them making another SKU for scum Z or Y. Not sure the demand will be there. Possible but I would not hold my breath.

They really should have made some minor change to the dials between rebels and scum, like a one bank is green on one and the three straight white, and on the other the one bank I'd white and the three straight in green.

That way nobody would scoff at the dial insistence.

If the dials get muddled, it's entirely problematic, but if Faction dials are used it's easier to sort out.

I think it can be a factor. I've started marking my dials, after the last couple tournaments I've been too, I see the need. So I've painted the black plastic part gold for Rebels and Silver for Imperial. Going to go with metallic green for S&V...

But the thing is, it's one thing to have both rebel or both imperial ships on the board. It's something else to have 4 Rebel and 4 S&V dials, only 2 of the rebel dials are actually S&V... That does increase the possible confusion. And while it's not a good enough reason on it's own...

This probably isn't the only reason, but I'm sure it's factored into the decision.

It's not the only one. This way they can have future ships with a different dial the the other faction. Something they could not do if they let people mix faction dials.

Plus it looks better, that means more people seeing the game and liking how it looks and checking it out. It also means an increase in sales of their product, because no company is going to tell people to not bother more of their stuff.

I think that Z-95s should be able to use dials from whichever faction, for whichever faction they're playing for.

Because, as the OP title says, Rebels ARE Scum!

(Another message brought to you by HNN: the Most Loyal Name in News - spamming you since last week.)

I accept Most Wanted being packaged the way it is because FFG wanted to provide extra ship cards/tokens/dials for the HWK, Firespray, and Y-Wing without forcing even more additional purchases. Great. I love the Y-Wing repaint and the Zs are fine.

The thing FFG could do that would help with this is selling replacement components, e.g., dials, ship tokens, and cards. I'm not suggesting "Card Packs" or anything, but rather using their print-on-demand model they've used in other games. It would help with this issue (you could, say, simply buy some replacement Rebel Z-95 dials, tokens, and ship cards) and it would also help with another issue: lost and worn-out components (mostly well-used dials). At some point, dials wear out and it would be nice to acquire some replacements without buying a new ship for it or having to try to convince customer service to send me a new one.

The thing FFG could do that would help with this is selling replacement components, e.g., dials, ship tokens, and cards.

I'd like to see that too, but it also is counter to one of the reasons for doing this. If you can just buy a S&V dial for say $2.50 why buy more MW boxes?

Unless they did something where you had to provide your proof of purchase.

I would not have bought my Rebel Z95 if I had known I would not be able to use it as a scum ship. There are SIX scum faction pilots in it. That means THREE base cards. There are FOUR pilot cards in the rebel Z95 that means TWO base cards. Everything works out well for an extremely valuable and USEFUL ship for someone just starting out.

I'm sorry this has been your experience, but when the ships were announced, we saw all the components laid out in a spread. From day-1 we deduced that there were enough components to run 2 Scum Y-wings, 2 Scum Z-95 Headhunters, 1 Scum Firespray-31, and 1 Scum HWK-290. There shouldn't have been any surprises which is why I don't think FFG was being unethical.

Regarding the three ship tokens, they had to include that many. When you buy a single Z-95 with 2 ship tokens, you will only fly one at a time, so it doesn't matter which pilot is on the back of which other token. When you have two ships in a pack, it becomes an issue because you expect to be able to run any combination of two pilots from that pack. That means you get one unique pilot each on two tokens and one each of the generics on the other side of those. But because N'dru has a Black Sun Soldier on the back and Kaa'to has a Binayre Pirate on the back, you would never be able to run N'dru with a Black Sun Soldier or Kaa'to with a Binayre Pirate. They included the third token with the two generics to keep the customers happy, not to dupe anybody.

EDIT: On the bright side, you have Decoy and Wingman. I still haven't obtained those yet.

The thing FFG could do that would help with this is selling replacement components, e.g., dials, ship tokens, and cards.

I'd like to see that too, but it also is counter to one of the reasons for doing this. If you can just buy a S&V dial for say $2.50 why buy more MW boxes?

Unless they did something where you had to provide your proof of purchase.

Agreed that there may need to be contingencies. But to be honest, the reason you don't buy another MW is that, at some point, you exhaust a need for EVERYTHING and start getting to a point where you need components of it, and the way it is structured makes it unattractive to do so after you have 2. This applies to all of the "Aces" packs, really.

That being said, when essential components are cards/cardboard, you need to have some kind of replacement option lined up. I really don't want to have a dozen TIEs, really, and the ships will last longer than the dials...

That's on you, the info has been out there for some time. Either way you still got exactly what you paid for, a Rebel Z-95. The fact that you didn't actually want it, is your own fault no one elses.

NO! The information is NOT out there.Nowhere on the official site does it say ANYTHING about dials not being used cross faction. This "rule" is not in any rules document. The product information shows what the products contain and that leads to the conclusion I drew.

This "rule" is only available in some email somebody got at some point from some customer service person.

Help me out!

Please!

What other secret rules are there that I don't know about that will influence my purchase decisions?

FFG is a company trying to make money. Jeez.

Again proxy cards, swap rebel and scum cards maneuver templaes whatever you want in casual play.

In tournaments follow the rules. That's it simple and perfectly reasonable. FFG is not a charity. Without income this game does not exist.

That's on you, the info has been out there for some time. Either way you still got exactly what you paid for, a Rebel Z-95. The fact that you didn't actually want it, is your own fault no one elses.

NO! The information is NOT out there.Nowhere on the official site does it say ANYTHING about dials not being used cross faction. This "rule" is not in any rules document. The product information shows what the products contain and that leads to the conclusion I drew.

This "rule" is only available in some email somebody got at some point from some customer service person.

Help me out!

Please!

What other secret rules are there that I don't know about that will influence my purchase decisions?

You are annoying.

Why did you assume that the ships could be used cross faction?

Because the bases have an entirely different color for the firing arc?

Seriously, with this being the case how was cross faction ever going to be possible?

Are you really REALLY REALLY angry that the slave 1 you own will be usable as a scum ship?

At least they came to the party there.

And what's this crap about having an unusable z-95?

You got rebel ships in your sig! Use it with them!

And if $15 is the end of the world for you maybe you should be more careful with your assumptions.

My personal opinion on the matter is that for Z-95 and Y-Wing it makes no sense to allow cross faction dials if you want to play multiples of the same ship. You won't have enough base inlays and ship cards, and those ARE different, especially on the Z-95 Pilot Skills and i also feel it problematic to play because of PS discrepancies. That is proxying and in competitive play i would not accept it from my opponent.

If however you play named pilots or have enough copies of the pilot card and base inlay, so it only comes down to the dial, i feel that it is a very artificial barrier made up by FFG. It's the same dial in a different color. They allow the ships having an alternate paint job but not the dials? That's just moneymaking, because in pure game terms it's absolute nonsense.

If however you play named pilots or have enough copies of the pilot card and base inlay, so it only comes down to the dial, i feel that it is a very artificial barrier made up by FFG. It's the same dial in a different color. They allow the ships having an alternate paint job but not the dials? That's just moneymaking, because in pure game terms it's absolute nonsense.

That is exactly what the problem is.

If you purchase the Most Wanted set and the Z95 expansion you get enough pilot cards and base inlays to use 3 scum or 2 rebels. You have 3 dials. The math should work.

It's the same dial in a different color.

And when it's not the same dial in a different color?

Are you going to expect everyone to keep straight exactly which ship has the same dial and which one has different ones?

If however you play named pilots or have enough copies of the pilot card and base inlay, so it only comes down to the dial, i feel that it is a very artificial barrier made up by FFG. It's the same dial in a different color. They allow the ships having an alternate paint job but not the dials? That's just moneymaking, because in pure game terms it's absolute nonsense.

That is exactly what the problem is.

If you purchase the Most Wanted set and the Z95 expansion you get enough pilot cards and base inlays to use 3 scum or 2 rebels. You have 3 dials. The math should work.

Umm, to meet your requirements Most wanted needed.... 10 more cards (6 Rebel z-95 cards, 4 rebel y-wing cards), 8 more base inserts (4 Rebel z-95, 2 rebel y-wing, and 2 extra scum z-95), and, if FFG wants to keep the possibility of different dials for different factions open, 4 more dials (2 rebel z-95, 1 rebel y-wing, and an extra scum z-95).

That's a lot of cardboard, compared to other similar packs.

Wow. This exploded.

I have no problem with FFG "forcing" me to buy more product to fly the right ships - but that is indicated by the insert on the ship and the pilot card.

Not (from my perspective) by the dial or the paint on the ship. FFG has even allowed players to modify product as long as it does not change it physically.

I know I'm not "forced" - but I do think it would have been better to allow the scum to fly with mixed dials. You just need the scum placard and pilot card. I still have to make more purchases, but given a dial is two pieces of cardboard and a plastic bit, for the same price they could have included two placards. I think.

I just feel that they've made it harder for me to fly my scum fleet. With ships I already own and paid for. Yeah, I know it's not exactly the same, but I just feel they could have done better here. And still made loads of cash.

Don't make purchases based on unfounded assumptions.

Not (from my perspective) by the dial or the paint on the ship. FFG has even allowed players to modify product as long as it does not change it physically.

FFG gets to make the rules not us, so what they say goes. Just like they can rule that you can't attack a ship that you overlapped, they can rule that you have to have the correct faction dial.

You may not agree with it, but the rule is the rule. That said I expect a lot of local tournaments won't actually enforce this rule, so the actual impact will be minor.

but I just feel they could have done better here.

Theres a number of reasons why they may of done it this way, most of them not being about the bottom line.

Wow. This exploded.

I have no problem with FFG "forcing" me to buy more product to fly the right ships - but that is indicated by the insert on the ship and the pilot card.

Not (from my perspective) by the dial or the paint on the ship.

Everyone is entitled to their own perspective/opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts. And the fact is, a Scum dial isn't a Rebel dial, officially, and it's every bit as necessary to organized play -- at a TO's discretion -- as the pilot card and baseplate insert.

Looking at most wanted, we essentially get 2 Z95s and a Y-Wing. Are their any restrictions (Tournament or otherwise) to using Rebel Z-95s (with the Rebel dial and especially the Rebel card) as scum faction ships?

Are we now at a point where we would need 2 complete, and essentially identical, sets of material to play either faction of an identical list.

I can really see this coming into play with Y-Wings and the incompatible droid options.

You can't use elements with the rebel insignia with the Scum faction. If you think of the Scum versions of ships as separate ship types rather than both factions using the same ship it's more intuitive. The Rebels have access to the Rebel Y-wing and the Scum have access to the Scum Y-wing.

Not (from my perspective) by the dial or the paint on the ship.

The paint on the ship isn't relevant because you can repaint, but the dials match the factions.

Most Wanted has, written on the box, that it contains all the components you need to field two Scum Z-95s and a Scum Y-wing, and the parts to run a Scum Firespray, a second Scum Y-wing and a Scum HWK. And it does.

If you've got those three ships, it's effectively a six ship box for less than three small ships, and if you haven't you'd have to buy them to use them anyway.

Duplicate redundant purchases are bad. FORCED duplicate redundant purchases are the sign of an unethical company.

I would not have bought my Rebel Z95 if I had known I would not be able to use it as a scum ship. There are SIX scum faction pilots in it. That means THREE base cards. There are FOUR pilot cards in the rebel Z95 that means TWO base cards. Everything works out well for an extremely valuable and USEFUL ship for someone just starting out.

This rule invalidates all of that. Rebel Z95 would have been MUCH further down my list of purchases had I known any of this. I am not rich and can't just but whatever I feel like. I have my ship purchases budgeted.

What's forced again? You don't have to buy anything from Scum. If you assumed you could run a Rebel Z-95 as a Scum one that's not FFG's fault, that's yours.

There's nothing deceptive or unethical about it. It says on the box what you can run with it: 2 x Z-95, 2 x Y-wing, 1 x HWK, 1 x Firespray, and you have all the parts needed to run them in any combination you want. Even without the conversions, Most Wanted is still cheaper than two Z-95s and a Y-wing blister and comes with more upgrade cards than those three all put together.

All the people complaining FFG are unethical and price gouging need to step back and realise what they're asking: they're calling FFG unethical for not giving them more.

If you buy a Z-95 with a rebel logo on it, you buy all the stuff to run a Rebel Z-95. It says that on the box: there's a great big rebel logo on the front and a parts list on the back. And in that Z-95 is the parts to run any pilot you want on that Z-95.

Then we've got people complaining they can't run Rebel baseplates. With the exception of Kath Scarlet and Boba Fett, that's akin to complaining you can't use Rexler Brath's baseplate for a Delta or an Avenger Squadron Pilot for Soontir Fel. The baseplate says the wrong thing!

Then people complaining they can't use Rebel cards. That they can't run another faction's ships!

And then of course there's the dials. FFG gives all the components to run the six ships (less three models) in the box. From FFG's perspective, you shouldn't need to proxy dials as Rebel ones to run the six ships in the box.

If FFG had known that giving us some ship conversion kits rather than selling the Scum versions as separate blisters complete with ship would make people think they have some sort of right to run any ship they buy as its other faction equivalent in a tournament they'd probably have just given us blistered Ys, Zs, Firesprays and HWKs. We'd all be worse off but people wouldn't be complaining.

If FFG had included a few more Scum Dials people would be complaining they weren't giving us more copies of the generic pilots. And if they did, then they'd complain they were being cheated out of dials.

Most Wanted says what it's got in it on the box. That's what it's got in it.

This is the reason I only by about 2 of something to being with. Eventually, FFG will put out Scum Y- and Z- single-fighter expansions

Good news (looks like) -- the new Tournament FAQ, 223, makes it sound like you can use dials between factions: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d6/2c/d62c343a-c4bd-497f-a45c-7cf0dd2cb300/x-wing_tournamentrules_v223.pdf

It's the same dial in a different color.

And when it's not the same dial in a different color?Are you going to expect everyone to keep straight exactly which ship has the same dial and which one has different ones?

What? The name of the **** ship is written on it, and you have the exact same problem if you play with only rebel or only scum colors.

Someone could always put the wrong back piece on a dial, so the answer is yes! You have to know which ship has which dial, and can perform which maneuver!

And by the way it IS the same dial. The scum Firespray maneuvers are identical to the Imperial one... I don't understand your argument!