Looking at most wanted, we essentially get 2 Z95s and a Y-Wing. Are their any restrictions (Tournament or otherwise) to using Rebel Z-95s (with the Rebel dial and especially the Rebel card) as scum faction ships?

Are we now at a point where we would need 2 complete, and essentially identical, sets of material to play either faction of an identical list.

I can really see this coming into play with Y-Wings and the incompatible droid options.

paintjobs are irrelevant to fieldability

Yes to field ships in tournaments they have to have dials that match their faction

Yes, but the pilot cards and dials are not interchangeable in competitive play, so you still need enough copies of the ship for each faction. But if it's just for the design it's cool!

I was involved in a huge discussiona while ago on Firesprays where it's only a dial question. Basically it makes no difference if you play with a scum dial, but TO can still demand the right ones if he feels like it, so i would notrisk attending a tournament if i would not have asked prior to it!

It would just suck if you wanted to play 4 PS4 Y-Wings, sometimes as Grey Squad Rebels with the Rebel droids and sometimes as Hired Gun Scum with Scum droids.

You would have to buy 2 sets of Most Wanted AND 4 Y-Wing expansions (2 of the expansion ships can sub in for scum ships) just to get the cards correct.

Yes to field ships in tournaments they have to have dials that match their faction

Where is this rule written? I have been reading and re reading the basic rules, tournament rules and the FAQ and can't find it.

Yes to field ships in tournaments they have to have dials that match their faction

Where is this rule written? I have been reading and re reading the basic rules, tournament rules and the FAQ and can't find it.

Customer service e-mail, IIRC.

Yes to field ships in tournaments they have to have dials that match their faction

Where is this rule written? I have been reading and re reading the basic rules, tournament rules and the FAQ and can't find it.

Customer service e-mail, IIRC.

Thank you very much.

That explains why I couldn't find it.

Hopefully they'll be clarifying the rules in print soon.

It would just suck if you wanted to play 4 PS4 Y-Wings, sometimes as Grey Squad Rebels with the Rebel droids and sometimes as Hired Gun Scum with Scum droids.

You would have to buy 2 sets of Most Wanted AND 4 Y-Wing expansions (2 of the expansion ships can sub in for scum ships) just to get the cards correct.

Yeah, it does suck a little bit, but that's how it goes. I think the longer this game goes, the more players have to ask themselves how much they really want to run "X" squad. Taking your 4 Y-wings as an example, if that's just an after-thought, then maybe one should forget about it. But if that's the list one wants to run and get good at flying, maybe it's best to skip on things like the Outrider or Aggressor.

Hopefully they'll be clarifying the rules in print soon.

Frank (one of the head designers for X-Wing) said that they'd be updating the FAQ this week. So I'm guessing today or tomorrow.

The dial thing used to bug me but it doesn't seem like too big a deal anymore. The dials come on the same card stock as the base inserts, if you have the pilot cards and cardboard baseplates, you'll have the matching dial. Rebels do get shafted a little as I will be able to fly all four of my Y-wings as scum but only two of them as rebels. Z's are going to be faction specific which kinda blows. But, the dials are just part of the story. You want to run 8 Bandits one day and then 8 Pirates the next? Well, you need the base inserts anyway. Maybe you can find someone that wants the other faction and can trade some cardboard around...

The dial thing used to bug me but it doesn't seem like too big a deal anymore. The dials come on the same card stock as the base inserts, if you have the pilot cards and cardboard baseplates, you'll have the matching dial. Rebels do get shafted a little as I will be able to fly all four of my Y-wings as scum but only two of them as rebels. Z's are going to be faction specific which kinda blows. But, the dials are just part of the story. You want to run 8 Bandits one day and then 8 Pirates the next? Well, you need the base inserts anyway. Maybe you can find someone that wants the other faction and can trade some cardboard around...

As I said in another thread it bothers me having to buy more of the same model of a ship just to be able to use the ones I already have.

If I own 3 or 4 Z95s I should be able to use them.

This rule only reenforces my desire to stay away from organized play. If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

There's some major logical flaws here.

First off, not everyone needs to be involved in competitive games. Second not allowing proxies has always been part of competitive events for most miniature games.

Also there's a number of reasons why they made this ruling, so it's not a stupid thing for them to do.

If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

There's some major logical flaws here.

First off, not everyone needs to be involved in competitive games. Second not allowing proxies has always been part of competitive events for most miniature games.

Also there's a number of reasons why they made this ruling, so it's not a stupid thing for them to do.

How is using an appropriate model ship with an appropriate ship card in any way a "proxy"? The maneuver dial is EXACTLY the same. How is that in any way a "proxy".

And the worst part is I WASTED 15 bucks on a "rebel" Z95 in anticipation of the Most Wanted set and because they want to spring this crap I have NO use for it.

How is using an appropriate model ship with an appropriate ship card in any way a "proxy"?

Because it's not the correct dial. The fact that it happens to have the same maneuvers doesn't change the fact that FFG has ruled that faction is part of the function of a dial.

S&V and Rebel ships are not interchangeable. It's as simple as that. The fact that the models are doesn't mean anything else is.

There's a number of reasons for them to rule this way, which have been discussed ad nauseum here so I'm not going to bother going over them again.

And the worst part is I WASTED 15 bucks on a "rebel" Z95...

So you can never use that Rebel Z-95? Did someone take it away from you? Did you throw it away? If not then no you didn't actually waste anything because you have exactly what you paid for.

If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

There's some major logical flaws here.

First off, not everyone needs to be involved in competitive games. Second not allowing proxies has always been part of competitive events for most miniature games.

Also there's a number of reasons why they made this ruling, so it's not a stupid thing for them to do.

How is using an appropriate model ship with an appropriate ship card in any way a "proxy"? The maneuver dial is EXACTLY the same. How is that in any way a "proxy".

And the worst part is I WASTED 15 bucks on a "rebel" Z95 in anticipation of the Most Wanted set and because they want to spring this crap I have NO use for it.

I can totally understand the frustration. Only way to think of Z-95's is that I own four rebel Z's and will soon own 4 scum as well. The dials could honestly be allowed cross faction but where are you going to get the cardboard base inserts? Casual play and your buddy is ok with reading "Bandit" as "Binyare" just go with it. But honestly, the base insert needs to be correct for tourney play and if you have that, you have the correct dial as well.

If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

There's some major logical flaws here.

First off, not everyone needs to be involved in competitive games. Second not allowing proxies has always been part of competitive events for most miniature games.

Also there's a number of reasons why they made this ruling, so it's not a stupid thing for them to do.

How is using an appropriate model ship with an appropriate ship card in any way a "proxy"? The maneuver dial is EXACTLY the same. How is that in any way a "proxy".

And the worst part is I WASTED 15 bucks on a "rebel" Z95 in anticipation of the Most Wanted set and because they want to spring this crap I have NO use for it.

I can totally understand the frustration. Only way to think of Z-95's is that I own four rebel Z's and will soon own 4 scum as well. The dials could honestly be allowed cross faction but where are you going to get the cardboard base inserts? Casual play and your buddy is ok with reading "Bandit" as "Binyare" just go with it. But honestly, the base insert needs to be correct for tourney play and if you have that, you have the correct dial as well.

If they ruled that cross-faction dials were legal, then on Friday I'd be able to combine my three Reebel Zs with my four Scum Zs for a seven-ship swarm list, as long as I don't include more than three Bandits or Talas. (Something like this?)

I am honestly a little bit annoyed that I can't legally use cross-faction dials. It's not an unreasonable requirement at all, and I can imagine all kinds of perfectly rational justifications, but it would be nice if they considered it.

I think the reason cross-faction dials are forbidden is to keep the possibility of a scum version of a ship having a slightly different maneuver dial than it's imperial or rebel counterpart. They might not plan to do it even in wave 7, but keeping the design space open seems wise.

The dials could honestly be allowed cross faction

They could, but what happens if they decide to release a S&V version of a ship that has a different dial then the Rebel or Imperial ship?

You can't honestly expect people to keep track of which dial is the same and which isn't for ships they're not playing. So for that reason alone the ruling makes sense.

but where are you going to get the cardboard base inserts?

This is something people tend to overlook. Even in friendly games it's iffy, because the PS isn't the same on many of the ships. There is at most 1 extra base card in MW, so even if you could use cross faction dials, you still have a limit of 3 base cards.

The dial thing used to bug me but it doesn't seem like too big a deal anymore. The dials come on the same card stock as the base inserts, if you have the pilot cards and cardboard baseplates, you'll have the matching dial. Rebels do get shafted a little as I will be able to fly all four of my Y-wings as scum but only two of them as rebels. Z's are going to be faction specific which kinda blows. But, the dials are just part of the story. You want to run 8 Bandits one day and then 8 Pirates the next? Well, you need the base inserts anyway. Maybe you can find someone that wants the other faction and can trade some cardboard around...

As I said in another thread it bothers me having to buy more of the same model of a ship just to be able to use the ones I already have.

If I own 3 or 4 Z95s I should be able to use them.

This rule only reenforces my desire to stay away from organized play. If they want to encourage/promote that as a thing for "everybody" they need to ditch stupid things like this that needlessly keep people away behind a paywall.

You are able to use them. You bought three or four Rebel Z-95s, and can continue to fly them as Rebel Z-95s all you want. You just haven't bought three or four Scum Z-95s, so you're not able to -- in official games, without a willing TO -- fly them as Scum ships.

No one's taking away your Rebel ships. You just have to buy Scum ship to fly Scum ships.

Duplicate redundant purchases are bad. FORCED duplicate redundant purchases are the sign of an unethical company.

I would not have bought my Rebel Z95 if I had known I would not be able to use it as a scum ship. There are SIX scum faction pilots in it. That means THREE base cards. There are FOUR pilot cards in the rebel Z95 that means TWO base cards. Everything works out well for an extremely valuable and USEFUL ship for someone just starting out.

This rule invalidates all of that. Rebel Z95 would have been MUCH further down my list of purchases had I known any of this. I am not rich and can't just but whatever I feel like. I have my ship purchases budgeted.

FORCED duplicate redundant purchases are the sign of an unethical company.

Who exactly is forcing you to buy anything? Did FFG send a man with a gun to your house? Do you plan on playing at the National, or Worlds championship with a S&V Z-95 swarm? If not then this ruling really has little no impact on you.

FFG is one of the most ethical companies out there, their customer service is outstanding and they go way above and beyond to help out people.

There are a number of reasons why this ruling makes sense. The fact that it's an inconvenience to you does nothing to invalidate those, or make this a bad decision.

I would not have bought my Rebel Z95 if I had known I would not be able to use it as a scum ship.

That's on you, the info has been out there for some time. Either way you still got exactly what you paid for, a Rebel Z-95. The fact that you didn't actually want it, is your own fault no one elses.

This is the reason I only by about 2 of something to being with. Eventually, FFG will put out Scum Y- and Z- single-fighter expansions, and you can get your extra generics that way. I only had 2 Interceptors, A-Wings and B-Wings prior to their respective Aces packs.

On the other hand, I do need to start tracking down some more TIE Advanced...

Duplicate redundant purchases are bad. FORCED duplicate redundant purchases are the sign of an unethical company.

Hyperbole is the sign of an emotional, rather than rational, argument. No one has forced you to do anything at all, much less forced you in all caps! Calling a company unethical over something this trivial, and this easily avoided on the part of the consumer, is pretty uncharitable.

I would not have bought my Rebel Z95 if I had known I would not be able to use it as a scum ship.

Can I suggest, next time, that rather than assuming a ship (with one faction's cardboard) is allowed to be used in another faction, perhaps you should have read up a little bit prior to making such a purchase, then? There have been threads aplenty about this on the forums (this is the sixth or seventh, I believe) for weeks and weeks now. This isn't news. This isn't some crazy new thing that FFG is blindsiding anyone with. A little bit of due diligence goes a long way.

I'm not crazy about this rule, myself, believe it or not. But I defend it because it makes sense from a business perspective, and because I don't blame FFG for me making an assumption about cross-faction compatability.

This rule invalidates all of that. Rebel Z95 would have been MUCH further down my list of purchases had I known any of this. I am not rich and can't just but whatever I feel like. I have my ship purchases budgeted.

If you would no longer like your Rebel Z95s, I'm sure you can find someone who'd like to buy them from you on eBay, Bartertown, or -- since you really wanted Scum Z95s despite buying Rebel ones -- someone who'd like to trade for some Scum ones, here on the big trading thread.

I think it's in your best interest to take advantage of the thriving secondhand market -- you know, the game community? -- to resolve the situation, instead of yelling at FFG and making wild accusations about something you could have easily read up on, yourself, to have prevented it from being a problem in the first place.

I think the primary concern over the dial issue comes from the play in a tournament itself. I've seen players in a tournament that are both playing Imperials get their dials confused all the time. I don't mean TIE's getting confused with TIE's in one recent tournament I saw a TIE for one player and a Decimator for his opponet get confused so the Decimator was pulling a 5 forward.

Now imagine a Scum and Villany player and a Rebel player both running Z-95s. If the dials get muddled, it's entirely problematic, but if Faction dials are used it's easier to sort out.

This probably isn't the only reason, but I'm sure it's factored into the decision.