You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

Don't you think someone should consider the OP's question about X-Wings and a z-95 rather than simply offering alternatives?

If you want to play X-Wing you should start with the Enterprise.

I think his question is pretty much answered already - and is likely moot since he already chimed in and said he doens't own the B-Wings in the first place, so he pretty much can't even attempt to fly the alternative build.

I didn't mean my comment about ownership to stifle discussion of other, related stuff. It was just my reason for starting the discussion at XXXXZ. The intent of the thread was a general discussion about beefy Rebel builds similar to BBBBZ, rather than only me and my models.

A better question might be, can you use the 4 points leftover from XXXXZ to make a BBBBZ-like list that is less vulnerable to the things BBBBZ is vulnerable to (namely swarms and arc dodgers in longer time formats)?

I think that the extra agility gives the X-wings a bit of a boost against Swarms, and the possibility of stress mechanics gives some benefit against arc dodgers.

i'm a huge fan of bxxzz. with the b being keyan/adv sensors/stay on target. for 34 points, ouch.

dealt 13 damage to a decimator on the first round of firing with this build.

I meant this, a little, in jest because I've had this happen to me on another board. I ask about a build because I want to use something specific in my squad and we end up talking about everything else but. because they like xyz better.

I know you guys, (Vorp and many others), are a great help and offer great suggestions.

Just pick'in on ya.

I think Biggs I your best bet based off what you have.

If you have A wings ive seen variants on the bbbbz using two ptl a wings, otherwise the idea you popped into my head is bbxxz with R3a2 on one of the xs. The varied dials will make you harder to block, which is an issue ive run into with the b wing heavy lists ive been running lately. I wouldn't clear space for a store championship on your wall running xxxxz but I don't think you'll be blownout either.

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

Wrong. Sharp 1 + 2k makes the bwing the most manueverableship that's not a yt.

Which are both red moves. So I hope you like not taking actions. B-Wings are very predictable coming off of a turn in which they perform one of those red maneuver (or get stressed). An X-Wing +R2 astromech coming off of a turn in which it was stressed is very hard to predict.

What makes B-Wings more maneuverable is when they take advanced sensors. It allows them to mitigate the effect of taking those red maneuvers. But that is not going to be an option in BBBBZ

All that said, I think B-Wings still remain the better option simply because 12 shields is an unbelievable huge bonus that even the agility and more forgiving dial of the X-Wing can't overcome.

BBBB, each one with advanced sensors.

The crazy thing is that it still has 8 more hit points than the XXXXZ. The extra ship in the Z-95 can be very useful though, so you are losing something by going down to only 4 ships.

Against ships that have gunner, you want more shields and less agility. If you run XXXXZ instead of BBBBZ, you're giving up a whopping 12 shields for an added 0.375 evades against each incoming attack.

The point of BBBBZ is to overwhelm the opponent with HP, and I think XXXXZ misses the mark.

I know you don't own any B-Wings, but it's usually better to use a ship in a role it's best at rather than trying to have it fill another ship's role poorly. There are good XXX and XXXZ lists that you can run by using the X-Wing's strengths, which are it's named pilots.

Examples:

Wedge + Predator + R3-A2 + Shield Upgrade

Biggs + Shield Upgrade

Rookie

Bandit

Wedge + Predator + R3-A2

Biggs + Hull Upgrade

Luke + Lone Wolf + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade

I hope someone runs one of these XXXXZ squads in tourneys and at least has the good taste to title it "X Gon' Give It To Ya."

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are

Biggs-3Rook-Z

Tarn+R7-3Rook-Z

4Rook+R5-Z

4Rook-A

Tarn is the best. He's basically a Biggs with better survivability.

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are

Biggs-3Rook-Z

Tarn+R7-3Rook-Z

4Rook+R5-Z

4Rook-A

Tarn is the best. He's basically a Biggs with better survivability.

Particularly since he's the costliest ship, and therefore your opponent's preferred target.

i'm a huge fan of bxxzz. with the b being keyan/adv sensors/stay on target. for 34 points, ouch.

dealt 13 damage to a decimator on the first round of firing with this build.

I like the look of this build. Keyan so equipped can be a lot of fun.

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are

Biggs-3Rook-Z

Tarn+R7-3Rook-Z

4Rook+R5-Z

4Rook-A

Tarn is the best. He's basically a Biggs with better survivability.

Particularly since he's the costliest ship, and therefore your opponent's preferred target.

He's almost forced to shoot him first. You don't want to see Tarn on the table when you have 1 ship left.

I meant this, a little, in jest because I've had this happen to me on another board. I ask about a build because I want to use something specific in my squad and we end up talking about everything else but. because they like xyz better.

I know you guys, (Vorp and many others), are a great help and offer great suggestions.

Just pick'in on ya.

Usually all I get is commentary on my typos.

I think Biggs I your best bet based off what you have.

If you have A wings ive seen variants on the bbbbz using two ptl a wings, otherwise the idea you popped into my head is bbxxz with R3a2 on one of the xs. The varied dials will make you harder to block, which is an issue ive run into with the b wing heavy lists ive been running lately. I wouldn't clear space for a store championship on your wall running xxxxz but I don't think you'll be blownout either.

i'm a huge fan of bxxzz. with the b being keyan/adv sensors/stay on target. for 34 points, ouch.

dealt 13 damage to a decimator on the first round of firing with this build.

I like the look of this build. Keyan so equipped can be a lot of fun.

in fact, he got me a top 4 with this list in atlanta a few weeks back.

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are

Biggs-3Rook-Z

Tarn+R7-3Rook-Z

4Rook+R5-Z

4Rook-A

Tarn is the best. He's basically a Biggs with better survivability.

Tarn is the anti-Biggs

your opponent doesn't want to shoot him because of his ability + R7, which leaves you free to do horrible X-wing type **** to them

Surprised no-one mentioned the middle of the road suggestion: BBXXZ leaves 2 points for generic astros, R3-A2, a Flechette torpedo or initiative. It's fairly dangerous to a great many things.

Has anything changed since integrated astromech (IA) was released?

XXXXZ

All Xs are outfitted with = R2/IA

Well I think that this makes the disparity between the Bs and Xs from a health stand point much less glaring. Instead of giving up 12 total shields you give up 12 shields, but get back what is functionally 4 hull/evades. IA X Wings are much closer to Bs in terms of jousting efficiency now. That being said, I thing BXBXZ is a pretty good option as well, you can get the knife fighting benefits of the 2 Bs and the speed of the Xs/Z.

Generic Xs are maligned for a reason (that 1 agility never seems to be worth the +3 shield of the B-wing, not to mention lack of rolling).

They were maligned for a reason - we don't quite know how they'll do for a while. Integrated Astromech means B-wings only have 2 more shields (maybe less depending on what your IA negates).

Personally, I like X-wings more because of TLT matchups. At least with 2 defence dice, I have a decent chance to avoid damage, but with B-wing's 1 green die it's barely a glimmer of hope.

The speed is nice to chase down big ships and kiting TLT Y-wings too.

Considering that you're probably going with an R2 unit, you can 2 hard green out of K-Turns. That right there convinces me XXXXZ is better.

BBXXZ looks like a winner - best of both worlds helping round out a couple vulnerabilities either list has, with remarkably little lost.

That said, the benchmark has since suffered in the wake of TLTs arriving - it seems to date that the best BBBBZ list of late is 4 Y-wings...

I still kickass with my 4Beez. TLTs are not a problem. My only tournament lose since a very long time was 3 Advanced with AccCorr + 2 PS1 Tie/Fo.

BBXXZ looks like a winner - best of both worlds helping round out a couple vulnerabilities either list has, with remarkably little lost.

That said, the benchmark has since suffered in the wake of TLTs arriving - it seems to date that the best BBBBZ list of late is 4 Y-wings...

I think the TLT storm has given a really good reason to drop the Z, bump your PS, and get some utility upgrades.

Tarn, R7, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, R2D6, Crack Shot, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, BB8, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, R3A2, IA = 25

Tarn is a tank, Red 1 gives you an little early punch, Red 2 is your knife-fighter, and Red 3 casts that wide stress net to hassle aces. It's got decent firepower, PS that has an advantage against both massed TLTs and Obsidian swarms, and at least goes at the same time as Crack Swarm. I don't think it's meta shaking or anything, but I wouldn't feel bad taking this against a lot of different squads.

I love the idea of XXXXZ! Would be more fun to fly than BBBBZ. Just not more fun on my pocket book. I already own 4 T-70s. (I bought 2 TFA cores, traded a FO for a T-70, and bought a T-70 expansion.) I will not purchase 4 T-70 packs just to run this list. They really should have included at least 2 copies of IA in the T-70 pack!

They really should have included at least 2 copies of IA in the T-70 pack!

Hopefully Rebel Veterans is in the pipeline with three copies of IA.

I hope.

BBXXZ looks like a winner - best of both worlds helping round out a couple vulnerabilities either list has, with remarkably little lost.

That said, the benchmark has since suffered in the wake of TLTs arriving - it seems to date that the best BBBBZ list of late is 4 Y-wings...

I think the TLT storm has given a really good reason to drop the Z, bump your PS, and get some utility upgrades.

Tarn, R7, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, R2D6, Crack Shot, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, BB8, IA = 25

Red Squadron Pilot, R3A2, IA = 25

Tarn is a tank, Red 1 gives you an little early punch, Red 2 is your knife-fighter, and Red 3 casts that wide stress net to hassle aces. It's got decent firepower, PS that has an advantage against both massed TLTs and Obsidian swarms, and at least goes at the same time as Crack Swarm. I don't think it's meta shaking or anything, but I wouldn't feel bad taking this against a lot of different squads.

Had much fun (and good win-loss rate) in tournaments with this - XXXZ+Roark Garnet with TLT, to give PS 12 to those Xs