I feel like I've read a lot lately about the increasing preponderance of BBBBZ in Store Championships both as a counter to high health turrets and to have too many hit points to chew through to claim all the points in timed rounds. It's an interesting and effective list, certainly, but I wonder about the slightly less efficient XXXXZ might be a viable option also.

Strengths of BBBBZ over XXXXZ:

12 more hit points: This especially matters against high dice output guns like HLCs and Phantoms that are not defended well by the X-wing's AGI 2.

Shifty movement options: You get access to the 1-turn, even if red, and you get the barrel roll

Strengths of XXXXZ over BBBBZ:

AGI2: This matters the most against massed low output guns like Zs or TIE Fighters.

Fast movement options: The 4-straight, 3-turn, white 3-bank, and longer K-turn allow greater displacement from your dial.

4 more points: BBBBZ is 100, XXXXZ is 96. This is the real kicker, here. What can you get for 4 points that might matter?

One of the X's is Biggs (4 points): It's Biggs in the back rank. What can you say?

R3-A2 (stressbot) (2 points): One of your X's can start spewing stress each turn.

Flechette Torpedoes (2 points): Like R3-A2, but not as good.

One of the X's is Tarn Mison (2 points): You get an X-wing that's a bit better than a Rookie.

Ion Pulse Missile (3 points): Make that big ship predictable for a turn. It also gives your opponent a reason to shoot at the little Z-95, which is also nice, there's a point leftover for Munitions Failsafe, which might be useful.

Upgrade the Z-95 to a Refit Prototype Pilot (3 points): The A-wing is a better blocker, and has a few more movement options than the Z, and probably also gets more Range 1 shots.

Initiative Bid: This is probably most important against another Rebel Swarm list, unless you really just love making sure you get the big asteroid.

Other good astromechs I'm not thinking of?

To me, Biggs or R3-A2 are the most compelling upgrades you might take in an XXXXZ list. R3A2 gives you some better options against arc dodgers (probably your biggest threat), it also is great to let you out-joust other jousters because it can prevent a K-turn from one of their ships. It also sort of ends up acting as Biggs on its own, but saves 2 points. I think R3A2 with Tarn is sort of a Biggs that hits a bit harder than Biggs and does some mean stress stuff, but isn't the sure thing that Biggs is.

An Ion Pulse Z with Munitions Failsafe or an XXXXA list with a 1 point Initiative bid also seem like reasonably good options.

Any thoughts?

Biggs and Tarn are probably the only legit advantages. Generic Xs are maligned for a reason (that 1 agility never seems to be worth the +3 shield of the B-wing, not to mention lack of rolling).

Biggs with R4-D6 (for all them phantoms and HLCs) could be very legit to frustrate the **** out of turrets (They always have a shot) while Tarn + R7 is already one of my go to "**** two ship lists" pilots because of how he interacts with lists dependent on two highly modified attacks

Tried XXXBA for 100pts. It works, but the lack of repositionning action really hurts. The movement options are much more limited thant 4BZ, which means a harder time blocking decloak lanes and no ability to react to PS 1 moves. The added speed of the A is nice though.

Very interesting topic. Biggs is always good and Tarn + R7 Astro can be very annoying for the opponent.

No points for Biggs and anything else, unless you just make it a XXXX list. That's not to say you couldn't go that route. I understand that 3 shields vs 1 AGI is really only a contest if you're expecting lots of 2-dice attacks, but I'm just trying to figure out if that 4 points of customization really gets you something interesting.

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

Wrong. Sharp 1 + 2k makes the bwing the most manueverableship that's not a yt.

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

Wrong. Sharp 1 + 2k makes the bwing the most manueverableship that's not a yt.

Depending on your definition of maneuverable.

The X-wing has the more maneuverable dial and the option for the 1 red turn does not really do the B-wing many favors, imo (it's good when needed, but you shouldn't plan on needing it because it can be crippling)

The B-wing has the more maneuverable barrel-roll, which I personally hold as the most desirable action in the game because of how amazing it is for repositioning a squad and being a blocking pain in the ass

No points for Biggs and anything else, unless you just make it a XXXX list. That's not to say you couldn't go that route. I understand that 3 shields vs 1 AGI is really only a contest if you're expecting lots of 2-dice attacks, but I'm just trying to figure out if that 4 points of customization really gets you something interesting.

sorry, not sure which region of the nether I pulled that extra point from

Just Biggs, then. The dude is still legit with or without upgrades

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

That said, four BTL Y-Wings may be a strong BBBBZ counter. With their low evade dice, you can ion the B-Wings for days. The only trick is going to be pinning down that Z.

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

Wrong. Sharp 1 + 2k makes the bwing the most manueverableship that's not a yt.

Which are both red moves. So I hope you like not taking actions. B-Wings are very predictable coming off of a turn in which they perform one of those red maneuver (or get stressed). An X-Wing +R2 astromech coming off of a turn in which it was stressed is very hard to predict.

What makes B-Wings more maneuverable is when they take advanced sensors. It allows them to mitigate the effect of taking those red maneuvers. But that is not going to be an option in BBBBZ

All that said, I think B-Wings still remain the better option simply because 12 shields is an unbelievable huge bonus that even the agility and more forgiving dial of the X-Wing can't overcome.

The X-wing has the more maneuverable dial and the option for the 1 red turn does not really do the B-wing many favors, imo (it's good when needed, but you shouldn't plan on needing it because it can be crippling)

The B-wing has the more maneuverable barrel-roll, which I personally hold as the most desirable action in the game because of how amazing it is for repositioning a squad and being a blocking pain in the ass

No points for Biggs and anything else, unless you just make it a XXXX list. That's not to say you couldn't go that route. I understand that 3 shields vs 1 AGI is really only a contest if you're expecting lots of 2-dice attacks, but I'm just trying to figure out if that 4 points of customization really gets you something interesting.

sorry, not sure which region of the nether I pulled that extra point from

Just Biggs, then. The dude is still legit with or without upgrades

Assuming Biggs was in the back row, and you were able to set up your first turn where half the enemy squad had shots on Biggs and half the enemy squad was out of range, does this start making up for the lack of durability of the X-wing compared to the B-wing?

A regular X-Wing, and an X-Wing with an R2 Astromech, are equally mobile excepting the turn following a stressful maneuver.

A B-Wing without Advanced Sensors has a very difficult dial to fly, but it still has a Barrel-Roll.

YYYYY

5 Gold Squadrons with Autoblaster turret. Chew through that lot in an hour.

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

Your reasoning seems flawless, then!

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

Don't you think someone should consider the OP's question about X-Wings and a z-95 rather than simply offering alternatives?

If you want to play X-Wing you should start with the Enterprise.

The X-wing has the more maneuverable dial and the option for the 1 red turn does not really do the B-wing many favors, imo (it's good when needed, but you shouldn't plan on needing it because it can be crippling)

The B-wing has the more maneuverable barrel-roll, which I personally hold as the most desirable action in the game because of how amazing it is for repositioning a squad and being a blocking pain in the ass

No points for Biggs and anything else, unless you just make it a XXXX list. That's not to say you couldn't go that route. I understand that 3 shields vs 1 AGI is really only a contest if you're expecting lots of 2-dice attacks, but I'm just trying to figure out if that 4 points of customization really gets you something interesting.

sorry, not sure which region of the nether I pulled that extra point from

Just Biggs, then. The dude is still legit with or without upgrades

Assuming Biggs was in the back row, and you were able to set up your first turn where half the enemy squad had shots on Biggs and half the enemy squad was out of range, does this start making up for the lack of durability of the X-wing compared to the B-wing?

only if you play Biggs properly

personally, though, I would always go for the B-wings because 1.) barrel-roll and 2.) **** green dice

YYYYY

5 Gold Squadrons with Autoblaster turret. Chew through that lot in an hour.

Sure but that would require you purchase five Rebel Y-Wing expansions. Not too likely.

I prefer this:

4X:BTLY-Wings with Ion Turret, Bomb Loadout, and Seismic Charge. Each Y-Wing has the capability to cause damage 3 times in a single round that way! Can even give one Genius since he costs nothing.

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

Don't you think someone should consider the OP's question about X-Wings and a z-95 rather than simply offering alternatives?

There are just two questions in the OP:

• Other good astromechs I'm not thinking of?
• Any thoughts?

I was addressing the second point; my favorite variation on a swarm-style XXXXZ list is to make it even swarmier by substituting a couple of Headhunters for one of the list's Rookies. It seems on-topic to me.

You can also "upgrade" from BBBBZ to BXXZZZ, which actually represents a moderate boost in firepower against anything with 0-2 Agility.

Sure, but I own 4Xs, no Bs, and only 1Z, so I'm talking about XXXXZ.

Don't you think someone should consider the OP's question about X-Wings and a z-95 rather than simply offering alternatives?

If you want to play X-Wing you should start with the Enterprise.

I think his question is pretty much answered already - and is likely moot since he already chimed in and said he doens't own the B-Wings in the first place, so he pretty much can't even attempt to fly the alternative build.

I meant this, a little, in jest because I've had this happen to me on another board. I ask about a build because I want to use something specific in my squad and we end up talking about everything else but. because they like xyz better.

I know you guys, (Vorp and many others), are a great help and offer great suggestions.

Just pick'in on ya.

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are
Biggs-3Rook-Z

Tarn+R7-3Rook-Z

4Rook+R5-Z

4Rook-A

4 x R2 units makes the x's more maneuverable

Wrong. Sharp 1 + 2k makes the bwing the most manueverableship that's not a yt.

Which are both red moves. So I hope you like not taking actions. B-Wings are very predictable coming off of a turn in which they perform one of those red maneuver (or get stressed). An X-Wing +R2 astromech coming off of a turn in which it was stressed is very hard to predict.

What makes B-Wings more maneuverable is when they take advanced sensors. It allows them to mitigate the effect of taking those red maneuvers. But that is not going to be an option in BBBBZ

All that said, I think B-Wings still remain the better option simply because 12 shields is an unbelievable huge bonus that even the agility and more forgiving dial of the X-Wing can't overcome.

BBBB, each one with advanced sensors.