3 ships are on the table. Lando has 1 hull point left, wild space fringer has 2 hit hull left, Imperial player has Mauler Mithel with Ruthlessness and 1 hull left.

The rebel player shoots first

Lando hits mauler and mauler does not evade. Mauler gets to shoot back due to simultaneous firing. He shoots the Wilde Space fringer and deals 2 damage which is not evaded, causing ruthlessness to deal 1 damage to lando.

Does the Imperial player win because he is the last ship to leave the table?

Yes this almost happened. My Tie missed.

Rule book page 13, player with initiative wins.

Edit: unless it's a tournament - then it's a draw

Technically, it will be a draw but if a "winner" must be chosen it will be the person with initiative.

Technically, it will be a draw but if a "winner" must be chosen it will be the person with initiative.

Yeah I hate the differences between casual and tournament play rules, the rules during a tournament should just be the rules. Initiative should not go to the imperials if both lists have the same points, and all ships getting destroyed because of simultaneous fire should not give a win to the person with initiative. But hey, that's just, like, my opinion, man... lol

But they are not destroyed at the same time.

Both rebel ships are destroyed during damage resolution of the attack. The tie is destroyed immediately after the attack.

No. The ship might be removed after the atack but it was already destroyed.

victory conditions are checked after the combat phase, and the rules clearly outlines what happens if all ships on both sides are destroyed at the same time e.i. in the same combat phase.

But they are not destroyed at the same time.

Both rebel ships are destroyed during damage resolution of the attack. The tie is destroyed immediately after the attack.

Under that logic, Mauler was technically the first to be destroyed. It's only the Simultaneous Fire that kept him there.

The attacks are simultaneous and the destruction is simultaneous. It's just a lot of pew-pew-pew followed by three rapid explosions, so it doesn't really matter which one exploded last. This is a draw and if there must be a winner, then Initiative decides.

I agree with Cptnhalfbeard. There shouldn't automatically be Imperial initiative for equal points. I would have preferred FFG made that a coin toss from the beginning. Initiative in X-wing can sometimes work for you and sometimes against you.

No. The ship might be removed after the atack but it was already destroyed.

victory conditions are checked after the combat phase, and the rules clearly outlines what happens if all ships on both sides are destroyed at the same time e.i. in the same combat phase.

Page 16 states the ship is not considered destroyed until after it has completed its attack.

My interpretation of dying at the same time would be to use Vader crew and kill my self during an attack and killing my opponents last ship during that attack.

But if one ship is destroyed during and attack and one ship is destroyed after an attack. According to the rule the game ends after all of o e players ships are destroyed. So the game would end during the resolution of the attack before you move to the next step of destroying a ship after it has completed its attack.

Not if all pilot skill's are equal in the phase (or a ship out of PS order is killed by an effect like Ruthlessness), as was the OP's example.

Basically in the OP's example, everyone was destroyed at once in terms of the games rules as written in the rulebook. And so, it was a draw. And in competitive play, that means the player with initiative wins.

My interpretation of dying at the same time would be to use Vader crew and kill my self during an attack and killing my opponents last ship during that attack.

But if one ship is destroyed during and attack and one ship is destroyed after an attack. According to the rule the game ends after all of o e players ships are destroyed. So the game would end during the resolution of the attack before you move to the next step of destroying a ship after it has completed its attack.

Ruthlessness happens after you perform an attack, but it is still part of the Combat Phase, and would be resolved before the ship gets removed.

Use Gunner or Luke (crew) for example. If you had a ship with Gunner get destroyed, but remains on the board because of the simultaneous attack rule, you would still get to use Gunner right? Both Gunner and Ruthlessness have the (almost) same exact trigger "when you perform an attack that hits/does not hit". So if you can use gunner before being removed, you can use ruthlessness.

Edit: also, putting in a +1 for what InterceptorMad said - using vader (crew) is not the only way you can cause all ships to be destroyed at the same time. If the last remaining ships are all of the same PS and you destroy mine, and I destroy yours because of simultaneous fire, then all ships were considered to have been destroyed at the same time. Initiative wins (or it is a Draw if it was a tournament)

I would think you would die before gunner goes off. Because gunner is a separate attack. You would shoot then immediately die after that attack before you have a chance for the second attack.

I thought ruthlessness happened during an attack after you hit a ship before the resolution of the attack.

Okay what is the definition of same time.

Is it at any point during a round of shooting?

Is during combat steps and after combat steps?( this is my problem you have a before and a after why is it considered the same time)

The example I see in the rule book on page 16 says "

After Red Squadron

Pilot resolves its combat steps, it is destroyed and

removed from the play area."

If I kill my opponents last ship during the combat steps is and I am destroyed after the completion of the combat steps why is it considered the same time.

doji, do you want to know what the answer actually is, or are you just looking for someone to validate your incorrect interpretation? Your question has been answered correctly above, you can keep asking the question but the answer isn't going to change.

A ship with the same PS as the ship that "destroyed" it gets to make it's full attack before it is removed from the table, along with any other ships it may have destroyed in it's final attack. Period, full stop. It's called the SIMULTANEOUS ATTACK rule because the attacks happen simultaneously. The ships are destroyed at the same time.

I would think you would die before gunner goes off. Because gunner is a separate attack. You would shoot then immediately die after that attack before you have a chance for the second attack.

I thought ruthlessness happened during an attack after you hit a ship before the resolution of the attack.

No the FAQ disagrees with you there. It's the active pilot's part of the combat phase, so they can use any and all of their abilities or upgrades.

Q: When the Simultaneous Attack Rule keeps a ship in play until it performs its attack, are all effects pertaining to that ship still in play?

A: Yes. Effects from the ship’s pilot ability, Upgrade cards, Damage cards, etc. are still active and may affect the game until it performs an attack, at which point it is immediately removed.

The entry under Darth Vader supports this also.

If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack.

I am looking for an answer.

From what everyone has said all ships with equal pilot skill all die at the same time in a round.

I would think you would die before gunner goes off. Because gunner is a separate attack. You would shoot then immediately die after that attack before you have a chance for the second attack.

I thought ruthlessness happened during an attack after you hit a ship before the resolution of the attack.

No the FAQ disagrees with you there. It's the active pilot's part of the combat phase, so they can use any and all of their abilities or upgrades.

Q: When the Simultaneous Attack Rule keeps a ship in play until it performs its attack, are all effects pertaining to that ship still in play?

A: Yes. Effects from the ship’s pilot ability, Upgrade cards, Damage cards, etc. are still active and may affect the game until it performs an attack, at which point it is immediately removed.

The entry under Darth Vader supports this also.

If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack.

I agree with Gunner read the card wrong. It will go off.

On a side note

Don't you have to have at least one hull in order to use vader? I know you can Use vader twice but he can't blow the ship up on the first attack to use it for the second attack off gunner because you no longer have one hull to meet his requirements.

If Vader destroys his ship after the first attack, Gunner can still be used for a second attack if the first didn't hit, but Vader can no longer be used. But the point I was illustrating there was that under the Simultaneous Attack rule, a ship equipped with a Gunner still gets it second attack.

And in answer to your preceding post, yes all ships with the same PS will be destroyed at the same time during the round. The example in your initial post would result in ALL ships being destroyed at the same time during the round and the game would end in a draw UNLESS there had to be a winner, and seeing as the Rebels shot first, then they obviously had the initiative, so the game becomes a win to the Rebels under the Draw/Intiative wins rule on page 13 of the Rulebook.

I understand the vader thing when I read his first post I thought he was trying to vader twice after the first vader blows up the ship . I also understand that gunner works.

Technically, it will be a draw but if a "winner" must be chosen it will be the person with initiative.

Yeah I hate the differences between casual and tournament play rules, the rules during a tournament should just be the rules. Initiative should not go to the imperials if both lists have the same points, and all ships getting destroyed because of simultaneous fire should not give a win to the person with initiative. But hey, that's just, like, my opinion, man... lol

Then who should win when everyone is destroyed at the same time? Just a random chance when a winner needs to be picked? In a casual game this situation would be a tie/draw and there is no winner. In a tournament it would be a draw with each player getting a 100 point MoV; IF there NEEDs to be a winner then initiative wins it but everyone should know that going in.

I also understand that gunner works.

Well from your post above (#12), it seemed you didn't.

I would think you would die before gunner goes off. Because gunner is a separate attack. You would shoot then immediately die after that attack before you have a chance for the second attack.

Even if you die from an attack, the abilities that were triggered during that attack still need to be resolved, such as Vader, gunner, Luke, Ruthlessness, Ion cannon/turret...etc. They have to be completed if they have been successfully triggered.

I also understand that gunner works.

Well from your post above (#12), it seemed you didn't.

I would think you would die before gunner goes off. Because gunner is a separate attack. You would shoot then immediately die after that attack before you have a chance for the second attack.

Has it been changed between Imperial win and Rebel win?

I accept that if its a tie then initiative determines the winner. And based of the direction this thread went my scenario ends in a tie.

I would just like to follow up with another question.

If say airen craken, and luke with r5-d8 has both have zero hull and stay alive due to the simultaneous firing rule. Craken shoots first and gives luke a free action (at this point craken is destroyed since he has resolved all his abilities) and luke uses it for r5-d8 and is successful in discarding 1 face down damage card. Luke then shoots the last remaining Imperial ship on the boards. Will luke still be destroyed because simultaneous firing rules just delayed his death or will he live since he now has one hull.