I'm not complaining because I'm getting 2 Z -95's. I'm complaining because I can't use the 5 I already have.

Same reason you can't use those Rebel Z-95s as Scyks. The Scum Z-95 and the Rebel Z-95 are not, from a mechanical standpoint, the same ship.

Ha. Seriously. Come on. They are the same ship. I can't imagine that you were able to type that with a straight face.

I get that people like the Most Wanted kit, but can we stop pretending that FFG is doing us a favor? The profit that will be generating from a starter kit that promotes purchasing a new, less popular faction that also includes incentive to purchase other ships where those incentives are useless without that additional purchase is not a favor - it is a marketing strategy.

Also, the thoughtless comments need to stop. Most Wanted comes with 5 ships? Try counting them again. You shouldn't be so defensive of a company that you start spouting nonsense when people criticize it. If it is a good product, it will sell and the company will be successful. If people don't like it, then their rational (i.e. not something of the caliber of 1+1+1=5 ships) complaints will be consideted by the company and might even result in changes that keep more people happy, so a healthier player base.

I think that people also underestimate how damaging grumbling players can be. A social game's reputation is critical to both encouragong new players and keeping veteran players of the opinion that their investment in the game was worthwhile. Look at 40k. The players are not happy with GW and the game is really suffering as a result.

Edit: Free? I was under the impression that the Most Wanted kit had an MSRP? Again, that is a dumb thing to say and shows how overdefensive people are being. A good deal can be your opinion, but something is not free if you give someone money to get it. The additional components are not a favor - they are there to sell more ships. It is like Fan Appreciation Day at a sports arena. The don't want to give you some crappy tshirt, but they will if it means that you will buy a ticket to the game.

Ha. Seriously. Come on. They are the same ship. I can't imagine that you were able to type that with a straight face.

Yes, they're the same ship thematically. Mechanically, however, they are completely separate from one another. They have no component crossover. It would make literally no difference if they'd used the Scyk instead of the Z-95 or changed two of the ScumZ's stats rather than choosing continuity, except there'd be less forum bitching. Or if they'd made Scum have completely separate ships and you'd have to buy separate blisters for every single one.

The profit that will be generating from a starter kit that promotes purchasing a new, less popular faction that also includes incentive to purchase other ships where those incentives are useless without that additional purchase is not a favor - it is a marketing strategy.

Ships that most people who already play the game already have. The conversions were used instead of new blisters with the same ship specifically to not piss people off.

Also, look at the prices before you try and spin it as a moneymaking ploy. Most Wanted is priced lower than the cost of the blisters for the Y-wing and two Z-95s off the bat. On top of that, it comes with vastly more upgrade cards than the equivalent in blisters AND the ship conversions with with full cards and baseplates.

And if you don't own another Y-wing, a Firespray and a HWK? Buy them. It'll still cost less than if they were all in new Scum blisters, and you'll get all the Rebel and Imperial pilot cards plus the upgrade cards. And then on top of that you've got all the Imperial and Rebel pilot cards plus all the upgrade cards that came with them. You've still paid less and ended up with more than you would if they did individual blisters.

I think that people also underestimate how damaging grumbling players can be.

This forum would complain even if the TIE/x1 fixes were free, by which I mean a vocal minority would complain. A vocal minority did, in fact, complain about, Raider bundling aside, how the fixed TIE advanced x1 would destroy the game.

Also, the thoughtless comments need to stop. Most Wanted comes with 5 ships? Try counting them again.

Thoughtless comments? Pot, kettle, black, anyone?

Okay, counting.

Six.

Two Z-95s, two Y-wings, a Firespray and a HWK.

It doesn't contain the models for the second Y-wing, the HWK and the Firespray and therefore costs about £25 rather than £70.

The complaining comes from people wanting more than that. You're complaining about not being able to proxy a Scum dial with a Rebel one. You can't proxy in official tournaments.

But, if you think it's an outrageous ripoff, an immoral move from FFG and cash gouging to the worst extent, don't buy it.

If people don't like it, then their rational (i.e. not something of the caliber of 1+1+1=5 ships) complaints will be consideted by the company and might even result in changes that keep more people happy, so a healthier player base.

Forum bitching will not make them change the dial rules. If people don't buy it then FFG will look back at it. The skyfallers on the forums are a vocal minority, not a majority.

The Z95 is Scum's filler/swarm ship, if ffg used a different ship for that role you'd still have to buy it if you wanted a swarm. Is your complaint that it's the same ship?

The ruling for using faction specific dials for cross faction ships only applies to Official Events, so in casual games you can use your rebel dials (unless your friends are d**ks of course). Those official Events cost money to play in, and for some to travel to. At that point, throwing down $27-40 to buy a second MW pack isn't really a big deal if thats what you're into.

Aside from the dials, you'll still need copies of the cards and ship tokens to fly more than the 2 Zs, unless you seriously limit your available squad options. You may have a point that in order to get 4 Zs you'll need to pay for 2 Ys that you might not want, but since MW comes with an extra Y dial, you'l have to option to use 4 Zs and 4 Ys (if you already had two rebel Ys). That's not a bad deal at all, and it's not even considering the FS-31 or HWK.

The Z95 is Scum's filler/swarm ship, if ffg used a different ship for that role you'd still have to buy it if you wanted a swarm.

It'd be more expensive too. You'd have to buy a blister for every one you wanted to use, and you wouldn't get all the Most Wanted upgrade cards and conversion kits with them.

Also, the thoughtless comments need to stop. Most Wanted comes with 5 ships? Try counting them again.

You're absolutely right, he should have said it comes with the material needed to fly SIX ships.

Anyone who's been collecting/playing for any amount of time will have at least one Firespray and at least one Y-wing. The hawk MIGHT be a little iffy, but if you're honestly complaining that you can re-use some ships but not others... then I don't even know how to help you.

And even if you don't have ANY of the other ships, the Most Wanted box is STILL priced accordingly for the three models it contains.

(edit: Gah - didn't the forum used to warn you if more posts were posted while you were typing? Sorry for the redundancy.)

you'd have to buy 2 copies of MW to run it compared to the empire firespray where you only have to buy the firespray itself

So you have to buy 2 firesparays to use 2 of them Imp side. And you're complaining about having to buy 2 MW which gives you enough stuff to run 12 ships, for about the same price you payed for those 2 firesprays...

Maybe Im\'m missing something here. Seems the real issue is the ruling of not allowing cross faction dails in official FFG tourneys. Now I may be wrong but that would just be US nationals and Worlds. I'm pretty sure my local store championship and regionals most likely wont care. I know those casual games it wont matter.

Now I may be wrong but that would just be US nationals and Worlds.

The Store Championship and Regionals at the FFG event center would need the correct dials. But other than that, yes it's up to the TO to actually enforce the rule. So for casual games it won't matter for tournaments, it will be up to the TO.

So this is once again a lot of ado over nothing.

It's going to work great for me, as a generally Imperial player, I never picked up a single Z-95 and only have 1 Y-wing. I plan on getting Most Wanted and automatically have a fairly decent Scum squad (since I already have a Firespray and Hwk)

If I then just go pick up a single x-95, I'll have a nice rebel squad going too

I'm not complaining because I'm getting 2 Z -95's. I'm complaining because I can't use the 5 I already have.

Yes, you absolutely can. You can fly them as 5 Rebel Z's all you want to! And, if you trade or buy a few dials, you're allowed to have them cross over to mix and match paint jobs in a Scum list, too.

No one is taking your Rebel Z-95s away, they're just not Scum Z-95s, because they have a few different components (cards, bases, and dials) that you need, just like any other ship.

The problem isn't the **** dials its the ship base cardboard. The MW pack only comes with 3 Z-95 ship bases. So if you wanted to say fly 4-8 scum Zs you'll only have 3 bases to use. The dial doesn't really matter, when you look at the table and you see a 3 Binarye pirates and 3 Bandit squadron pilots, it is going to get confusing as hell. Its obvious FFG was trying to avoid this scenario altogether. You already can't proxy at tourneys, I don't see how this is any bit different.

The problem isn't the **** dials its the ship base cardboard. The MW pack only comes with 3 Z-95 ship bases. So if you wanted to say fly 4-8 scum Zs you'll only have 3 bases to use. The dial doesn't really matter, when you look at the table and you see a 3 Binarye pirates and 3 Bandit squadron pilots, it is going to get confusing as hell. Its obvious FFG was trying to avoid this scenario altogether. You already can't proxy at tourneys, I don't see how this is any bit different.

They don't picture all the components. It'll come with four, two for each Z-95. FFG aren't idiots.

It'll come with four, two for each Z-95. FFG aren't idiots.

They don't need 4.

There's 1 each of the named ship, then a 3rd which is the Black Sun Pilot. That means the back of one named ship is a Black Sun, the back of the other is a Binayre pilot, and the back of the one showing a Black Sun pilot is the other Binayre pilot.

So you can run either 2 PS1, 2 PS2, 1 of each, a mix of either one with a named pilot or 2 named pilots. There's no need for a 4th base card, 3 gives you every possible combo you can come up with 2 ships.

Also, the thoughtless comments need to stop. Most Wanted comes with 5 ships? Try counting them again.

Thoughtless comments? Pot, kettle, black, anyone?

Okay, counting.

Six.

The claim that Most Wanted comes with six ships is so obviously incorrect that I am not even sure what to say. You don't have to say outrageous things like that. The people who disagree that Most Wanted is not at least arguably worth its purchase price are not being given much credit, so there is no need to be equally obtuse right back at them.

Lets try this:

1) Buy Most Wanted.

2) Dump its contents onto the floor.

3) Count the ships that came out of the box.

If you are still getting a number higher than three, try asking an adult for help.

3) Count the ships that came out of the box.

That depends. If I include the ships I already own that I can use, I get six. If I don't I get 3. But to say 6 is hardly an outrageous statement. Most people here already have the other 3 models, so for us we can use 6 ships with a single MW package.

The profit that will be generating from a starter kit that promotes purchasing a new, less popular faction that also includes incentive to purchase other ships where those incentives are useless without that additional purchase is not a favor - it is a marketing strategy.

Ships that most people who already play the game already have. The conversions were used instead of new blisters with the same ship specifically to not piss people off.

Also, look at the prices before you try and spin it as a moneymaking ploy. Most Wanted is priced lower than the cost of the blisters for the Y-wing and two Z-95s off the bat. On top of that, it comes with vastly more upgrade cards than the equivalent in blisters AND the ship conversions with with full cards and baseplates.

And if you don't own another Y-wing, a Firespray and a HWK? Buy them. It'll still cost less than if they were all in new Scum blisters, and you'll get all the Rebel and Imperial pilot cards plus the upgrade cards. And then on top of that you've got all the Imperial and Rebel pilot cards plus all the upgrade cards that came with them. You've still paid less and ended up with more than you would if they did individual blisters.

Well-said, TIE Pilot. I agree with your thoughts here.

The only way you could say it costs more is if you were coming in brand-spanking-new as a Scum player. You buy 1 core set, 1 Most Wanted, a Y-wing, a HWK, and a Firespray. You can add upgrades to your Rebel ships to make 100 points, probably, but you won't be able to make an Imperial squad with that. So you're not getting as many playable ships.

However, I think very few people are doing that. It sucks if you're that guy, but for most people, Most Wanted is nothing but a good deal. I think FFG did right by us with this expansion.

so the regular price is $39.95 and the sale price of online retailers hovers around $30.00 here in the states

it comes with the things needed to field 2 Z-95s and 1 Y-wing without any prior purchases

each non-viper small ship has a standard $15 price and $10 sale price

At the very least, Most Wanted as a stand-alone expansion has decent value. The extra **** is just gravy.

It is a bit weird for people looking to field an odd number of Z-95s (since it comes with enough parts to purchase another Y for scum at standard prices), For those not interested in Zs or Ys (for shame) but wanting to field a hwk or 'spray, it does kind of suck (But you really should be fielding at least a few Zs and Ys )

I'm seriously struggling to understand what all the fuss is about. It's a three ship box designed to jump start a new faction. It's priced pretty cheap for a three ship box, and contains some bonus stuff for free, which means you can use some extra ships if you already have them. If you don't have them, you don't have to buy them.

If you want to run twin scum firesprays, and are disgruntled you will need to buy two most wanted boxes, then thats a bummer, but there are plenty other viable lists you could choose to run instead. It's a bit like buying four Lamdas to run four B-wings with Advance Sensors. It's an option, but not necessary at all to run viable B-wing lists. And if you really are desperate to run a particular list, then just grit your teeth and pony up. It'll still be cheaper than getting a list together for 90% of other sci-fi miniatures games.

I think FFG have pitched the most wanted box just right. Would it be an improvement to include a spare z95 dial and base insert? Absolutely, but it's hardly a deal breaker. I already have 5 Z's, and I've ordered two boxes, purely for running a 4 Y-wing list. I want to do it, so I pay the money. Everything else in the box is gravy.

3) Count the ships that came out of the box.

That depends. If I include the ships I already own that I can use, I get six. If I don't I get 3. But to say 6 is hardly an outrageous statement. Most people here already have the other 3 models, so for us we can use 6 ships with a single MW package.

Saying that is comes with six ships is both outrageous and stupid. Including what you already have when describing what a new purchase includes is not any better.

If you buy a box of apples and dump it out next to some strawberries that you purchased and the day before, did the box of apples have strawberries in it? No, obviously not. Does the fact that the apples and strawberries can be used together change that? No, obviously not.

Most Wanted comes with three ships. Suggesting any other number is misleading and does not make sense. You can say that it comes with additional components to be used with more than three ships, but you cannot say that it comes with more than three ships.

If that still, for whatever reason, doesn't convince you, ask yourself how you would feel if the outside of the box was opaque and the back said that it came with six ships. Would you not be surprised when you opened it and saw only three and some cardboard?

I order mine from miniature market for $27, that's $2.97 less than if I'd ordered 3 small ships from them (and I get all the stuff to convert my other ships). I really don't see what people are complaining about.

Also, the thoughtless comments need to stop. Most Wanted comes with 5 ships? Try counting them again.

Thoughtless comments? Pot, kettle, black, anyone?

Okay, counting.

Six.

The claim that Most Wanted comes with six ships is so obviously incorrect that I am not even sure what to say. You don't have to say outrageous things like that. The people who disagree that Most Wanted is not at least arguably worth its purchase price are not being given much credit, so there is no need to be equally obtuse right back at them.

Lets try this:

1) Buy Most Wanted.

2) Dump its contents onto the floor.

3) Count the ships that came out of the box.

If you are still getting a number higher than three, try asking an adult for help.

You aren't being given much credit because there isn't much credit to give. You are completely ignoring the.fact that this box comes with full conversion kits for 2 ships most of us already have...yes those count. They may not physically be in the box but the equipment we need to reuse these ships as NEW ships is there...you can keep ignoring that of you want...but don't expect the rest of us to take you seriously. If you don't have those ships then yes you will have to bug them...but that isn't an excuse to make the rest of us rebuy a ship we already have to use it in a different faction. As I stated above, the company could have easily made us do that and most in here would have done it...albiet while grumbling...

What could they have done to make you happy? Separate blisters? Screw that the want invested players to get into this faction...and that's more likely to happen when you allow players do repurpose what they have where possible in reasonable amounts...

So keep QQ ing and trying to talk down to us...you aren't making a good case as most of us here aren't as blind to the very obvious "subtleties" in this pack...your argument isnt getting credit because there is almost no credit to give it from my perspective...you are straight up wrong...I would suggest you go out and study up on the concept of "value added"...perhaps that might help you see what we see...

What could they have done to make you happy? Separate blisters?

So keep QQ ing and trying to talk down to us...

Although I don't know what "QQ" means, you are obviously confused. I think that the Most Wanted kit is a good deal. However, it only comes with three ships and I will not stop talking down to people who believe otherwise.

Charming attitude. Everyone who has stated that Most Wanted comes with the components to run six ships has further qualified such: nobody has claimed it contains six models. A ship in X-wing is all the requisite components, not just the model of that ship.

I notice that you've latched onto this semantic matter rather than trying to defend your previous assertion that there is something wrong with Most Wanted.

What could they have done to make you happy? Separate blisters?

So keep QQ ing and trying to talk down to us...

Although I don't know what "QQ" means, you are obviously confused. I think that the Most Wanted kit is a good deal. However, it only comes with three ships and I will not stop talking down to people who believe otherwise.

Your issue is with others' lack of precision of language. But I see that in your post as well. When you say, "only comes with 3 ships" that omits the weighty fact that you can fly 6 ships total with one box of Most Wanted because it comes with the requisite cards, tokens, and dials to do so. That's huge!

True, there are only 3 miniatures included in the box, but you can fly 6 S&V ships with one box of Most Wanted. We're basically all talking past each other because nobody is bothering to write out precisely what is in the box every time we talk about it.

EDIT: But who can blame 'em, right?

You can say that it comes with additional components to be used with more than three ships, but you cannot say that it comes with more than three ships.

I believe that is exactly what I am saying. In fact what I said was "so for us we can use 6 ships with a single MW package."

I never made the claim that it came with 6 ships, only that if you already own a Y, HWK and Firespray you get what you need to use those as S&V with a single MW box.

Now to say that the box comes with 6 ships is not true, but to claim that some of the statements are misleading or stupid is to be overly pedantic.

if the outside of the box was opaque and the back said that it came with six ships.

But the outside of the box doesn't say that, and while some here are taking a verbal shortcut when they say it comes with 6 ships, they're not actually misleading anyone.