Hadn't noticed until now, but one of the events I'm planning on attending is actually running 65-minute rounds.

Great article. I'll admit that match length is not something that I normally think about when trying to plan my squad. It's a tough thing to really plan for, as I can't just hop onto Vassal and test my builds for 65 minutes of play against someone who hasn't designed their squad to last the same amount.

Well vassal is little harder to test in a timed environment just because it can take little longer than if playing on a actual table.

Though I still think it's a good guideline to see where you stand in an hour

But i do kind of agree with what the author is saying.

In a timed game some squad are just better, even though really they are worse. No time limit will likely lose, but since in an hour they just need the pt advantage.

Numbers game is all

Doesn't surprise me people take this into account.

We have discussed this among each other here, but never really tried or pUT it to the test.

Bbbbz is not the only squad that can do this, or at least I don't think it is

I've often considered this is what made the swarms so powerful

7-8 ships.

Takes player longer to set dials vs someone flying 2-4 ships. (even though they are not intended to slow play it just can't be helped)

So that right there is actually slowing the game down and imo can be highly in the swarms advantage

Just the fact he has to think about more ships. Then the time it takes to set each dial.

Then the actual movement of each, and actions. All eats time

You have 60 min to kill as many Ties before he kills your more expensive ships

You kill 2 - 24 pts

He kills biggs 25 pts. He is winning at this point.

You kill another your up 36 pts.

He kills rookie he's up 46 pts

Time is called, you almost killed another tie, but he has 1 hull left

Game over

60 minute rounds punish swarm players and favor expensive 2 ship lists. So not only does a swarm autolose to a phantom, but it gets punished by 60 minute rounds.

The average amount of rounds in a 60 minute round should be made into a new turn limit. People only like 60 minute rounds because they play 2 ship lists and they finish in like 40 minutes after they play some nuance-less two ship list 100 - 0 battle. Yeah, if everyone is going to fly those types of lists then 60 minutes is just fine.

60 minute rounds punish swarm players and favor expensive 2 ship lists. So not only does a swarm autolose to a phantom, but it gets punished by 60 minute rounds.

The average amount of rounds in a 60 minute round should be made into a new turn limit. People only like 60 minute rounds because they play 2 ship lists and they finish in like 40 minutes after they play some nuance-less two ship list 100 - 0 battle. Yeah, if everyone is going to fly those types of lists then 60 minutes is just fine.

A turn limit is a bad idea. It means everyone will be waiting on the Swarm vs Swarm game to finish up since they've only played 4 of their 8 allotted turns in an hour.

And yes, of course, two ship lists are all boring, nuance-less and require no skill to fly well at all. /s

Every store I play at 60 minute rounds is the norm and in most games 60 minutes is plenty of time for one person to lose all their ships

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

Falcon games...

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

I'd really like to see some kind of evidence for this. Over the weekend I played in a SC where neither of my first two matches featured a Large ship at all, and both went to time at 75 minutes. So my experience, at least, disagrees strongly.

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

I'd really like to see some kind of evidence for this. Over the weekend I played in a SC where neither of my first two matches featured a Large ship at all, and both went to time at 75 minutes. So my experience, at least, disagrees strongly.

Not to mention my echo and 5 ap swarm games usually lasted in the 50 minute mark at the Sacramento SC.

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

I'd really like to see some kind of evidence for this. Over the weekend I played in a SC where neither of my first two matches featured a Large ship at all, and both went to time at 75 minutes. So my experience, at least, disagrees strongly.

Well, I don't know how you play - but mine is.

Here's the timers from my two latest SCs:

Edit: not counting the Store Champ event last Sunday, sorry. I've yet to update the log.

41/75

40/75 (loss)

53/75

38/75

42/70

50/70

48/70

Yes, I'm a stat guy.

I was very glad for the 75 minute timer at my last event. It allowed almost every game (26 players) to run to completion, with the exception usually being a couple of newer players. Sixty minutes tends to cut a lot more games off.

I don't seem to have much of an issue with 60 minute games. That's how I play casually and that's how it was ran at the SC I went to this year.

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

I'd really like to see some kind of evidence for this. Over the weekend I played in a SC where neither of my first two matches featured a Large ship at all, and both went to time at 75 minutes. So my experience, at least, disagrees strongly.

3 of my 7 (shouldnt include the untimed final but eh) were done in 35-45 minutes of the 65 minute games, that included setup, at my local SC this weekend. 1 game went to time but the last turn saw me blowing up his last piece, a fat han, two games did go to time and that was the rematch of the falcon in elimination bracket and the other was against 4 Y-wings, 1 was left verse a full health Guri. So sounds more like you could do a few things (also your opponents) to clean up play and get done quicker.

Not to mention my echo and 5 ap swarm games usually lasted in the 50 minute mark at the Sacramento SC.

Both of the opponents for my long games were fairly new, and one of them was flying a very defensive Corran (which I targeted first, and carefully).

My objection was that Keffisch wasn't saying that most of his games ended quickly, but that non-Falcon games are usually over that quickly. And my experience has been that big lists, control lists, and inexperienced players can all push a game well into that 60- to 75-minute red zone.

I'm a swarm player. Even 65 minutes is better than 60 minutes. I tend to do ok within the 60 minute rounds, but I have yet to play in a SC or higher. The tourney I won in was 75 minute rounds. Most for those would have been a lot closer if it was 60 minutes. Shorter time limits constrict the meta more, IMO. But you don't want them too long either or swarms appear everywhere. I prefer to be the guy with more figures on the board.

The less time that is on the clock the more important the clock becomes.

This is true is so many sports and it will also be true in X-Wing. When you've got a 60 min. clock it is that much easier to make a plan to just grab a lead and hold on until the clock expires. This would be like sitting on the ball or running slow plays while the clock runs down and why many sports have included shot/play clocks to make sure things keep happening.

With less time on the game clock we really need to be more concerned about slow play. Without it, either intentional or not, most games should still get done in under a hour. The problem is when you run into slow play in its various forms and trying to define which types could be 'cheating' to take advantage of the clock. In a 75 min game that slow play needs to cover a game 25% longer which makes it more difficult and/or much more obvious.

I seriously wonder who are these swarm players who are losing to fat han lists. If you can potentially throw 14-16 dice at something with howlrunner rerolls and still lose the problem isnt with the list or the round format.

This has become the new witch-hunt. If it's not Tie-swarms or Fat-Hans.... now it's 60 minutes!! For a game to be a game, there must be a common set of rules. Maybe YOU don't like the constants it creates, but those same constants are placed on your opponent as well.

To improve as a player, find faults in your own game. What could you have done differently? What weaknesses did your list have that you had trouble accounting for. What changes could be made to your list to make it stronger?

This has become the new witch-hunt. If it's not Tie-swarms or Fat-Hans.... not it's 60 minutes!! For a game to be a game, there must be a common set of rules. Maybe YOU don't like the constants it creates, but those same constants are placed on your opponent as well.

To improve as a player, find faults in your own game. What could you have done differently? What weaknesses did your list have that you had trouble accounting for. What changes could be made to your list to make it stronger?

Absolutely players should account for the time in their strategy, but it's not a witch hunt to prefer a longer game or to recognize that shortening games does further limit the range of lists that are competitive.

Would it be better if the 'rules' just said a game can only last X number of rounds? Of course X would need to be small enough that many games could be played to completion in that number.

The problem with that: it then can make the length of games so variable and also slaps those who play quickly in the face when they'd use something that often takes more than X rounds to win.

Non-Falcon games are usually over within the first 40 minutes.

I'd really like to see some kind of evidence for this. Over the weekend I played in a SC where neither of my first two matches featured a Large ship at all, and both went to time at 75 minutes. So my experience, at least, disagrees strongly.

3 of my 7 (shouldnt include the untimed final but eh) were done in 35-45 minutes of the 65 minute games, that included setup, at my local SC this weekend. 1 game went to time but the last turn saw me blowing up his last piece, a fat han, two games did go to time and that was the rematch of the falcon in elimination bracket and the other was against 4 Y-wings, 1 was left verse a full health Guri. So sounds more like you could do a few things (also your opponents) to clean up play and get done quicker.

Not to mention my echo and 5 ap swarm games usually lasted in the 50 minute mark at the Sacramento SC.

Most of my games end before 75 min, and even in the 65 min SC in Oakland, only one game (surprisingly) went to time (and if it didn't, I might have lost, so that result would have changed with a 75 min game). But at the same SC, the final against Tarn Nation took around 2.5 hours. Yes, we were relaxed about the pace because there's no time limit, but playing a 2 ship build vs 7 ships, there will be a lot of cat and mouse chase around the board as the only thing the 2 ship build has is survivability (via HP or agility dice) and outmaneuvering. If that game was 60 min, I think I might have won because of arc dodging and killing 1 Z.

Ultimately, I think most games will take 60min or less to finish, but there will be a few key games where either the players are very close in skill or because of the matchup, if the game ends at 60 min vs 65 or even 75 min, the results would be completely different.

Except we do NOT have a common set of rules.

We have 60 minutes, 65 minutes, 75 minutes.

FFG already mandates number of rounds + Cut...they should add in time per round.

Of course I like 60 minute rounds. I don't fly dual anything and have gotten pretty good at time management to kill what I need to (though you still run into Darth Sloth once in a while and he slow-plays you into a 4 round game).

Then you go into someone elses FLGS (Regionals for example) and suddenly you have an extra 15 minutes.