I have a non-crate-related question!

Table 3-1 has the base payout for smuggling different both restricted and unrestricted goods.

Is the listing for unrestricted goods really for "smuggling" them, or is it just "shipping?" The language in the text implies that this is all smuggling (i.e. illegal), but if a good isn't restricted, then wouldn't it likely be legal to transport?

If it is for smuggling then what is the going rate for shipping? Not every run is going to be high-stakes, and smart crews will look to move some goods alongside whatever else they plan on doing whenever they go from world to world.

It would be like smuggling cigarettes across certain state lines. More a matter of avoiding taxes and making a profit that way I would think.

I'll need my official copy in before I can soundboard, but from my knowledge of the Star Wars Universe via the older games:

There are taxes for using hyperlanes, taxes for bringing goods to a planet, taxes for how much cargo you are hauling in the first place, etc. Smuggling legals goods is just like FangGrip said: you avoid the taxes for a profit.

It'd be like going into a state that doesn't charge sales tax and low taxes for certain goods, buying a truckload, taking back roads to get back to your own state, and selling everything for a profit as you didn't have to pay taxes and fees.

Let's travel to an alternate dimension for a moment, where there are players that would enjoy arguing about minutiae. I shudder to think.

If your table is arguing about such pointless minutiae as how many credits worth of loot you can shove in your hold, your GM should put his/her foot down. They are the Game Master after all. They're in charge of making the game move quickly, that's not the rule's job.

This isn't a problem at my table per se, but I've seen it enough. The reason this could stand to be called out is because this is the bread and butter of the smuggler. I agree with what you're saying of course, as well as what Quicksilver mentions. I'm just trying to point out that different groups have different play styles and while one group might ignore encumbrance, another might relish the spreadsheets required; if they're having fun doing it, no harm. A provided guideline could ease that for players of that ilk.

Since you've clearly decided the concerns of my table, where we've had to rely on eyeballing it with deckplans which takes a hell of a lot longer then a simple division, aren't worth page space compared to what's valuable to your table, I won't bother continuing to argue.

So, Smuggling.

I think Fang and NPC have it right - your smuggling to avoid taxes. According to what I've found on the early empire period, a number of light freighter captains, who had been perfectly legal curriers during the Old Republic period, found themselves unable to make ends meet with the Empires new commercial taxes (at least, on those who weren't a large corporation). So they would end up smuggling the goods they used to carry openly in order to make enough to keep their ship running.

Let's travel to an alternate dimension for a moment, where there are players that would enjoy arguing about minutiae. I shudder to think.

If your table is arguing about such pointless minutiae as how many credits worth of loot you can shove in your hold, your GM should put his/her foot down. They are the Game Master after all. They're in charge of making the game move quickly, that's not the rule's job.

This isn't a problem at my table per se, but I've seen it enough. The reason this could stand to be called out is because this is the bread and butter of the smuggler. I agree with what you're saying of course, as well as what Quicksilver mentions. I'm just trying to point out that different groups have different play styles and while one group might ignore encumbrance, another might relish the spreadsheets required; if they're having fun doing it, no harm. A provided guideline could ease that for players of that ilk.

I wasn't going to respond as I think I expressed my opinion fairly well. My original interest in the crates was actually less about worrying the players with loot as much as getting a firmer grasp of how the developers treat encumbrance. It seems arbitrary and a bit sloppy. That's why I was hoping for a sidebar. I love narrative games, but if they stray from a universally understood system of measurements it gets more difficult to keep a firm grasp and translate that to a plausible universe.

I apologize for the long discussion on crates.

Since you've clearly decided the concerns of my table, where we've had to rely on eyeballing it with deckplans which takes a hell of a lot longer then a simple division, aren't worth page space compared to what's valuable to your table, I won't bother continuing to argue.

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to argue or have it come off as me telling you how to run your game. In fact, I deleted a little bit referencing how I'm not here to tell anyone how to run their game because I didn't think it added to the discussion.

Sorry Themensch, that comment was directed at Xerox. I should have made that clear. Even then I probably shouldn't have said it, but it was early and I was annoyed.

I have a non-crate-related question!

Table 3-1 has the base payout for smuggling different both restricted and unrestricted goods.

Is the listing for unrestricted goods really for "smuggling" them, or is it just "shipping?" The language in the text implies that this is all smuggling (i.e. illegal), but if a good isn't restricted, then wouldn't it likely be legal to transport?

If it is for smuggling then what is the going rate for shipping? Not every run is going to be high-stakes, and smart crews will look to move some goods alongside whatever else they plan on doing whenever they go from world to world.

It would be like smuggling cigarettes across certain state lines. More a matter of avoiding taxes and making a profit that way I would think.

I'll need my official copy in before I can soundboard, but from my knowledge of the Star Wars Universe via the older games:

There are taxes for using hyperlanes, taxes for bringing goods to a planet, taxes for how much cargo you are hauling in the first place, etc. Smuggling legals goods is just like FangGrip said: you avoid the taxes for a profit.

It'd be like going into a state that doesn't charge sales tax and low taxes for certain goods, buying a truckload, taking back roads to get back to your own state, and selling everything for a profit as you didn't have to pay taxes and fees.

So, wouldn't that be charged under restricted, since the goods are at the time illegal?

If not, what would you all think is a decent rate for standard cargo? Half the unrestricted rates, maybe?

I have a non-crate-related question!

Table 3-1 has the base payout for smuggling different both restricted and unrestricted goods.

Is the listing for unrestricted goods really for "smuggling" them, or is it just "shipping?" The language in the text implies that this is all smuggling (i.e. illegal), but if a good isn't restricted, then wouldn't it likely be legal to transport?

If it is for smuggling then what is the going rate for shipping? Not every run is going to be high-stakes, and smart crews will look to move some goods alongside whatever else they plan on doing whenever they go from world to world.

It would be like smuggling cigarettes across certain state lines. More a matter of avoiding taxes and making a profit that way I would think.

I'll need my official copy in before I can soundboard, but from my knowledge of the Star Wars Universe via the older games:

There are taxes for using hyperlanes, taxes for bringing goods to a planet, taxes for how much cargo you are hauling in the first place, etc. Smuggling legals goods is just like FangGrip said: you avoid the taxes for a profit.

It'd be like going into a state that doesn't charge sales tax and low taxes for certain goods, buying a truckload, taking back roads to get back to your own state, and selling everything for a profit as you didn't have to pay taxes and fees.

So, wouldn't that be charged under restricted, since the goods are at the time illegal?

If not, what would you all think is a decent rate for standard cargo? Half the unrestricted rates, maybe?

Technically, no. The item itself is still legal, but the person is selling it without going through the proper legal channels and paying the taxes, so they are making a profit.

Now, if the item were Restricted in that world (i.e. taking salt from one planet and smuggling it to Arcona), then yes, it'd be restricted.

As for "decent rate," it really depends on the local market. If you're seen The Clone Wars, there was an episode in which Mandalore was purchasing standard, (mostly) legal food stuffs from the black Market due to trade embargoes. Smugglers were basically purchasing food from one world, sneaking it past anyone that'd cause problems, and selling it at a substantial markup.

What I've done in previous versions when the party was working on their own (i.e. "recovered" cargos): find out how common the item in question is on that world and set a price somewhere around the baseline.

Example: Say the party acquired a number of datapads in their excursions, and decided to sell them. The found a small backwater world in which these datapads were rare, which means they'll make closer to the market price (or possibly higher) if they sell on their own.

If they were to take that same smuggled cargo to a technology rich world, they'd be lucky to get the 50% value.

It's a marketing thing, really.

But they're not really restricted. Once you get them past customs, they can be sold on the open market. A classic example would be Corrillian wiskey. The export duties on it are prohibitively high (300% or something), but once you got it off Corillia and to another planet, any old liquor store can put them on the shelf.

eh, mostly ninja'd

But they're not really restricted. Once you get them past customs, they can be sold on the open market. A classic example would be Corrillian wiskey. The export duties on it are prohibitively high (300% or something), but once you got it off Corillia and to another planet, any old liquor store can put them on the shelf.

eh, mostly ninja'd

Nope, different enough and helps prove the point, so not so much ninja'ry as awesomely timed elaboration :-D

As for "decent rate," it really depends on the local market. If you're seen The Clone Wars, there was an episode in which Mandalore was purchasing standard, (mostly) legal food stuffs from the black Market due to trade embargoes. Smugglers were basically purchasing food from one world, sneaking it past anyone that'd cause problems, and selling it at a substantial markup.

What I've done in previous versions when the party was working on their own (i.e. "recovered" cargos): find out how common the item in question is on that world and set a price somewhere around the baseline.

I think you misunderstand the table in question. It refers to the fee for just shipping/smuggling goods rather than buying and selling them.

So if the table deals only with smuggling, how much could one expect for shipping?

Ah..... Excellent question.

To which I don't really have an answer, despite how much I want one. Our group does a lot of regular shipping, but we almost entirely hand wave it away as covering the operating costs of the ship, paying our NPC's salaries (and occasional bonuses), providing our food/board and assume anything we make after that is blown on good food/drink/entertainment/trinkets.

To my mind, the monetary gain from transporting goods is related to the rarity differences. The table in the core rulebook pertaining to rarity shifting gives a pretty good idea of the differences available (as well as the base modifiers). Throw in the odd knowledge skill to provide a +/- to the rarity (K:Outer Rim tells us that Datapads are very rare [+2] on Planet X while they're manufactured [-3] on Planet Y) and you have a market as well as a cost adjustment (+/- Rarity difference squared * 2%, perhaps?). Just plug the numbers into the formula and you have a trade route. Allow for plot related changes to rarity modifiers -- filtered through Knowledge rolls -- and profit/loss can be calculated.

As for "decent rate," it really depends on the local market. If you're seen The Clone Wars, there was an episode in which Mandalore was purchasing standard, (mostly) legal food stuffs from the black Market due to trade embargoes. Smugglers were basically purchasing food from one world, sneaking it past anyone that'd cause problems, and selling it at a substantial markup.

What I've done in previous versions when the party was working on their own (i.e. "recovered" cargos): find out how common the item in question is on that world and set a price somewhere around the baseline.

I think you misunderstand the table in question. It refers to the fee for just shipping/smuggling goods rather than buying and selling them.

So if the table deals only with smuggling, how much could one expect for shipping?

I need to wait until I get my book tonight (just arrived at the apartment, but stuck at work until late). I don't have the new tables or the revised writeup on hand, and don't want to get into trouble for relying on the wrong copy/wording, so. . .

I think legal cargoes can work in the same way, only with smaller fees due to not being as dangerous or troublesome to haul.

West end Games provided decent rules on shipping fees for tramp freighters, which aren't based on the goods being transported but merely the mass of the goods and its. If I recall correctly, a good rule of thumb is 10 credits per ton per day of travel (which is typically assuming x2 hyperdrive speed on a standard route, including a day to load cargo and another to unload).